Discouraged and need advice

[Sosewsue61 3,185]

@Seimmaj

You can't come on here and ask for help and not expect the forum members to give their help and opinions. There are some very experienced and successful people on here, and the really successful ones are not going to sugar coat it.

You want to defend your nutritionists approval of a full sugar drink and yet complain when posters point out that obvious issue.

Change is hard, but humans generally run from it. Also deep introspection that elicits lasting change usually takes a huge painful event, and not subtle gentle hints. A friend died, boom and he was only a couple years different in age from me - he and his wife - wonderful people, but both obese. I did not want to be that person, at the least I would die having tried to really change. You are early in the journey, and we all get impatient, there will be stalls, frustrations, maybe even a set back - but just keep going.

[summerset 5,265]

24 minutes ago, Sosewsue61 said:

You can't come on here and ask for help and not expect the forum members to give their help and opinions.

There are also some very loud-mouthed and self-righteous n00bs on here who think they have it all figured out a few weeks or months post-op.

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There are some very experienced and successful people on here, and the really successful ones are not going to sugar coat it.

True. And I'm not going to sugar coat the fact that it's unreasonable to deal out the usual standard advice fueled by anticarb-hysteria before having gathered any information at all.

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You want to defend your nutritionists approval of a full sugar drink and yet complain when posters point out that obvious issue.

Since two of the mantras of BP are "follow your plan" and "listen to your team/nut" this is kind of understandable.

[Fatboyslim1 204]

3 minutes ago, summerset said:

There are also some very loud-mouthed and self-righteous n00bs on here who think they have it all figured out a few weeks or months post-op.

True. And I'm not going to sugar coat the fact that it's unreasonable to deal out the usual standard advice fueled by anticarb-hysteria before having gathered any information at all.

Since two of the mantras of BP are "follow your plan" and "listen to your team/nut" this is kind of understandable.

Your misplaced "it ain't what you eat diatribe" does far more harm than good. I understand the concept that some people just want to be comforted, but that isn't always the case. There are people on here that want real answers based on real science, not placating with voodoo.

[catwoman7 11,212]

5 minutes ago, summerset said:

There are also some very loud-mouthed and self-righteous n00bs on here who think they have it all figured out a few weeks or months post-op.

True. And I'm not going to sugar coat the fact that it's unreasonable to deal out the usual standard advice fueled by anticarb-hysteria before having gathered any information at all.

Since two of the mantras of BP are "follow your plan" and "listen to your team/nut" this is kind of understandable.

LOL on the noobs response. I've thought the same thing.

re: the mantras - USUALLY that's good practice. But that's not to say that we've never seen a questionable plan or questionable advice from nuts on here before....it happens.

[Fatboyslim1 204]

It's like going to an AA meeting and confusing those people who are actually struggling with addiction that sometimes slip up, with individuals who sit there drunk and say "hi, my name is Ed and I no longer drink, but I'm still drunk".

[summerset 5,265]

42 minutes ago, catwoman7 said:

re: the mantras - USUALLY that's good practice.

Yes, you're right. Sorry, threads like this make me royally pissed sometimes.

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But that's not to say that we've never seen a questionable plan or questionable advice from nuts on here before....it happens.

True as well. The problem is: what's questionable or not is too often in the eyes of the beholder. That personal point of view is shaped by your own experiences, current trends/hypes and numerous other things. Some years ago people were all over the place with "low fat" and scolded others when they dared to admit to eating fatty foods. Today people are scolded when they're eating "carbs".

I never counted calories or carbs, my diet is absolute **** by BP standards, my exercise level dropped significantly (luckily so did my appetite though) because of several injuries first and then second due to a significant increase in workload and yet my BMI is 23.something, so I absolutely can't relate to the eat-as-little-as-possible-and-protein-only-while-moving-as-much-as-possible crowd. So that's the bubble I am in and this is also what's shaping my opinion on certain things.

Yes, I know people want to "get it over with" as soon as possible (even though one of the other BP mantras is "it's a marathon not a sprint) but I have serious doubts that people do themselves any good by crash dieting after WLS. There are too many people struggling less than a year out already to not question this approach at least once in a while.

And yes, I think I should stay out of threads like these because what I have to say (as one of the precious "vets" people always want advice from, mind you, lol) is not what people want to hear anyway. *shrug*

Edited January 27, 2020 by summerset

[Joy2me 8]

On 01/20/2020 at 08:08, Jazzy1125 said:

you may be walking too much Your body is healing and you are probably not consuming a whole lot of calories right now. That could also cause you to slow down.

Help me understand, when is walking too much a problem?

[summerset 5,265]

43 minutes ago, Fatboyslim1 said:

It's like going to an AA meeting and confusing those people who are actually struggling with addiction that sometimes slip up, with individuals who sit there drunk and say "hi, my name is Ed and I no longer drink, but I'm still drunk".

No, it's like going to an AA meeting, seeking support and feeling completely out of place because a lot of people there are struggling with abstinence, yet the possibility that controlled drinking could actually be an alternative is denied with the strongest passion while everyone there is shouting at each other "TRY HARDER!!!!!1" without getting anywhere long term in the end.

[Taj 125]

On 01/27/2020 at 10:34, summerset said:

Yes, you're right. Sorry, threads like this make me royally pissed sometimes.

Quote

But that's not to say that we've never seen a questionable plan or questionable advice from nuts on here before....it happens.

True as well. The problem is: what's questionable or not is too often in the eyes of the beholder. That personal point of view is shaped by your own experiences, current trends/hypes and numerous other things. Some years ago people were all over the place with "low fat" and scolded others when they dared to admit to eating fatty foods. Today people are scolded when they're eating "carbs".

I never counted calories or carbs, my diet is absolute **** by BP standards, my exercise level dropped significantly (luckily so did my appetite though) because of several injuries first and then second due to a significant increase in workload and yet my BMI is 23.something, so I absolutely can't relate to the eat-as-little-as-possible-and-protein-only-while-moving-as-much-as-possible crowd. So that's the bubble I am in and this is also what's shaping my opinion on certain things.

Yes, I know people want to "get it over with" as soon as possible (even though one of the other BP mantras is "it's a marathon not a sprint) but I have serious doubts that people do themselves any good by crash dieting after WLS. There are too many people struggling less than a year out already to not question this approach at least once in a while.

And yes, I think I should stay out of threads like these because what I have to say (as one of the precious "vets" people always want advice from, mind you, lol) is not what people want to hear anyway. *shrug*

The OP asked for “advice” and there appears to be a lot of people taking issue with people offering advice based on their personal experience when their experience and advice differs. How does sarcasm and ridicule and anger benefit any of us?

[Joy2me 8]

01/27/2020 01:08 PM, summerset said:

Also respectfully, if you're not going over your TDEE a day even though you're consuming sugary drinks, you're still going to lose weight.

300 kcal of sugary drink + 500 kcal of solid food = still no more than 800 kcal - > weight loss

Simple equation. Shouldn't be that hard to comprehend. Twinkie diet anyone?

While that seems to make sense, it has been debunked that all calories are the same and burn the same. It has also been questionable about calories in, calories out, based on the fact that the way we burn the type of calories has been accepted. I do agree that 1500 calories = is 1500 calories, but since all calories have different nutritional make up and burn differently, how we burn the calories is more important

[summerset 5,265]

16 minutes ago, Joy2me said:

I do agree that 1500 calories = is 1500 calories, but since all calories have different nutritional make up and burn differently, how we burn the calories is more importantly

So what exactly is that difference between calories? I guess people are talking about SDA/TEF when they say "calories are not the sam".

But how much exactly does e. g. the TEF of Protein really matter in the end when you're eating this very low calorie diet that is so popular in the WLS community? Especially when you look at the fact that 1 kg of body fat contains approximately 7500 kcal.

And why not keep a fine tuning bullet like this until later in your back pocket when weight loss slows down significantly or stops altogether?

[Fatboyslim1 204]

54 minutes ago, summerset said:

No, it's like going to an AA meeting, seeking support and feeling completely out of place because a lot of people there are struggling with abstinence, yet the possibility that controlled drinking could actually be an alternative is denied with the strongest passion while everyone there is shouting at each other "TRY HARDER!!!!!1" without getting anywhere long term in the end.

While I usually disagree with much of what you push, I am a proponent of the controlled drinking alternative to alcohol addiction. But where we disagree is that for WLS, controlled drinking runs parallel.

With controlled drinking, one can potentially survive the addiction, but while doing so be vividly aware that they are still drinking (and becoming intoxicated).

With WLS there is a bunch of bizarre and completely wrong "advise" out there that when, what and how much someone eats (or doesn't eat) does not somehow correlate directly to weight. The controlled drink argument under that same scenario would be" I control my drinking, but I don't become intoxicated".

the AMA should fund a study to determine the correlation between short and long post WLS surgery failure with people reading bad advise on Bariatric forums.

[Joy2me 8]

On 01/27/2020 at 11:25, summerset said:

So what exactly is that difference between calories? I guess people are talking about SDA/TEF when they say "calories are not the sam".

But how much exactly does e. g. the TEF of Protein really matter in the end when you're eating this very low calorie diet that is so popular in the WLS community? Especially when you look at the fact that 1 kg of body fat contains approximately 7500 kcal.

And why not keep a fine tuning bullet like this until later in your back pocket when weight loss slows down significantly or stops altogether?

I totally agree with you on the different SDA of foods. But, eating such low calories is only for the pre-surgical diet and the first 8 weeks for me when my calories were upped significantly , with increased Protein, carbs, and liquid intake. Now at 12 week, I have no diet restrictions, and slightly increase in calories, protein, carbs and liquids. So, that’s why my interest is in this area. Couple this with the thermogenesis from cardio and strength training.

[froufrou 678]

On 1/27/2020 at 6:47 AM, Fatboyslim1 said:

It will be virtually impossible to help this individual, If they think at its ok to drink copious amounts of sugar loaded energy drinks intended to keep athletes operating at peak performance.

best to move on to people who are serious about losing weight

That's absolutely not true. The OP asked for advice. She got the advice and now she's going to follow it. We're not all nutritionist on this board and we don't all have the answers, which is why we humble ourselves and get on here and ask. What would be nice is if people could approach some of these questions in a kindly manner and try to help people. If anyone doesn't feel like they can do this... then just don't try. Best to leave it to the rest of us who actually feel empathy.

[darcyjae 106]

On 1/27/2020 at 10:34 AM, summerset said:

True as well. The problem is: what's questionable or not is too often in the eyes of the beholder. That personal point of view is shaped by your own experiences, current trends/hypes and numerous other things. Some years ago people were all over the place with "low fat" and scolded others when they dared to admit to eating fatty foods. Today people are scolded when they're eating "carbs".

You're clearly conflating this person's situation with your own journey. You may be fine and dandy with eating candy floss or twinkies or whatever you like—and if you are, and you are satisfied with the progress you made. Bravo. It's no one's business but yours.

But no one is actually giving YOU advice in this thread. The distinction worth making it that they're replying to the OP, who ISN'T fine and dandy. They are discouraged. Unlike you, they are unhappy because they are losing weight more slowly than they'd like. They came here for advice on how to change that.

Fact: It's considerably outside the experience of almost everyone here that a nutritionist would suggest regularly consuming a sugar drink as part of a bariatric diet.

Fact: The OP is experiencing the EXACT result one would predict from loading up on sugar. The weight loss they would like to experience is slowed.

Fact: Outside of blood sugar issues, no one actually needs to routinely consume sugary drinks.

No one is being holier than thou. They're pointing out the obvious. You can argue about this food or that food and the benefits of carbs. But an empty calorie sugar drink hardly seems like the right rock to die on.

I guess I don't understand why you would fight so hard against the suggestion that they make a change in their diet to see if it improves weight loss.

I mean, it isn't a question of whether or not they have the "right to eat carbs" or "carbs being evil". It's a question of whether eating less sugar will result in faster weight loss for them. I guess you can argue it won't, but I see whole lot of data points around here that indicate otherwise.

Peace.