THE SLOW LOSERS CLUB SUPPORT THREAD

[summerset 5,265]

20 minutes ago, JB1 said:

Am I supposed to have carbs or stay strictly ketone so my body burns fat and lose weight?

You will burn fat when you're in a calorie deficit.

[Fatboyslim1 204]

3 hours ago, Serengirl said:

right but Im not in a coma. I have an apple watch and they have been proven to underestimate what you burn in a day. Its not hard to calculate how many calories you burn all day long between apps and the watch. You can get a pretty accurate sense of what your full burn is for the day and per workout in addition to steps etc. My resting ,metabolic rate - if i laid down all day is around 1900 (lowballing) add in my workouts and my daily activities and its really easy to burn another 2100 ontop of the 1900. burning 3500 calories (which includes the 1900 -ish) over the course of a day is super easy especially if you aren't sitting around all day. And again, I am lowballing numbers.

I agree completely that you can burn 2100 calories per day on top of your standard 1900+/- daily burn.

in fact there are a few Olympic trained athletes that can actually do that, but not every day. So what you must be doing is marathon running at least 20 miles every day, and on the "off days" mountain biking for 6 plus hours! Then in your spare time do just regular stuff to burn the daily 1900+/- metabolic norm.

clearly I can now see that you don't intend to post false information, you are just really really confused about CICO. I don't mean to be disrespectful when I say that, I think you need to look at the reality of what you said, and how that horribly wrong statement and associated concept may be affecting your progress.

luck!

[CapyCapybara 107]

Anyone notice if you eat too late in the day - like get most of your calories 2-3hrs before bed- are slower losing?

I know there’s two camps: calories are calories no matter what time of the day vs . Calories before bed cause weight gain


Just want to add even though I’m not losing weight as fast as I wish (driving me bat shit crazy) I am definitely losing inches .

I calculated my burn rate and it’s roughly 2500- 2600 cals so after food like 2300-2400 cals burn in 24hrs (includes workout) so should be around a lb every other dayish if my body would cooperate haha hopefully I’m just retaining Water and will have the “whoosh” hahaha

[KarenLR75 515]

1 hour ago, CapyCapybara said:

Anyone notice if you eat too late in the day - like get most of your calories 2-3hrs before bed- are slower losing?

I know there’s two camps: calories are calories no matter what time of the day vs . Calories before bed cause weight gain

YES, YES and YES to your first question.

Didn't realize there were 2 camps but for me..since I am not very active..NOWHERE near as active as you and others...I thought hitting 2.5 miles hiking multiple times a week was rocking it....and I think that calorie burn at the pace, my stride length, etc. was er....between 300 and 400 calories?? I will have to look it back up..lol.

I have noticed that I had a bad habit of night eating..and eating a lot on my way to getting to be super morbidly obese. I have also noticed that I am repeating that same pattern recently...not enough calories early enough in day and eating bulk at night...which of course right after I do it...I go to bed...so not good. At least for me - it is a bad habit and leads to me making not so ideal food choices as I feel pressed for time - this is even with me staying within my calorie/macro limits. When I was in months 2 and 3 and pretty much stopped this, I was losing weight faster..and now it has snuck back in.

I have a very very sedentary job where I sit..for sometimes 14 to 16 hrs a day. Not good, I know...so getting out hiking...and earlier in year I was hiking AND swimming...I thought I was the bomb..lol. My body responded decently because let's face it...going from 0 to something...does have an impact.

I am mentally trying to do the math....how do pedometers account for things like...let's say that in 1 hour YOU can walk 4 or 5 miles...while I'm doing good to hit 2.5 in 45 to 60 minutes (and then my right knee balloons up). I would think that you are exerting more energy (i.e. faster and/or longer strides)...so your calorie burn for that same '1 hour period) should be much greater than mine...right? How do step counters account for this - especially ones on your phone that you are 'carrying' and not let's say...a fit bit or some other device that may or may not be more advanced than me swinging my phone around while I walk?

I guess I need to google/study 'burn rate'. I would think that maybe having a better metabolism..one that is more revved up may also play a factor? That is the reason I started exercising after WLS - I knew that having been so very inactive for more than a decade, I had harmed my own internal metabolism and that WLS was only a tool but if I didn't get my rear in gear, nothing would change in the end (this is what I personally feel).

Flash forward from my surgery in July...to 3 mos later when I hit my first 2 miles hiking (no major elevations due to torn up knee)...& I was SO bummed out that I had to stop as my knee just exploded in swelling. I have learned how to manage to keep the swelling reduced but it involves slowing my stride...and also...stopping before I overdo it. Have managed to push it to 2.5 miles now - don't get me wrong, weight loss is helping but it can't cure everything for my knee. I never ever thought I would enjoy hiking! Heck, I'm in awe of hitting 4 miles per day and more on a cruise!

So....what the heck do you do to burn that many calories in a day? Is it hard core stuff like running? I'm a slightly reformed/newly reformed couch potato so I am in NO WAY challenging your burn rate...I'm just learning from this thread..that there are other things I need to factor in although my main focus will remain on hitting my dietary goals/keeping to the calorie and other macro limits....as well as making sure I'm getting at least 1 hr of physical activity 3 to 4 times a week and work on increasing that up.

Edited January 9, 2020 by KarenLR75
LOL, I typed 'overdue' instead of 'overdo'

[CapyCapybara 107]

On 01/08/2020 at 17:27, KarenLR75 said:

YES, YES and YES to your first question.

Didn't realize there were 2 camps but for me..since I am not very active..NOWHERE near as active as you and others...I thought hitting 2.5 miles hiking multiple times a week was rocking it....and I think that calorie burn at the pace, my stride length, etc. was er....between 300 and 400 calories?? I will have to look it back up..lol.

I have noticed that I had a bad habit of night eating..and eating a lot on my way to getting to be super morbidly obese. I have also noticed that I am repeating that same pattern recently...not enough calories early enough in day and eating bulk at night...which of course right after I do it...I go to bed...so not good. At least for me - it is a bad habit and leads to me making not so ideal food choices as I feel pressed for time - this is even with me staying within my calorie/macro limits. When I was in months 2 and 3 and pretty much stopped this, I was losing weight faster..and now it has snuck back in.

I have a very very sedentary job where I sit..for sometimes 14 to 16 hrs a day. Not good, I know...so getting out hiking...and earlier in year I was hiking AND swimming...I thought I was the bomb..lol. My body responded decently because let's face it...going from 0 to something...does have an impact.

I am mentally trying to do the math....how do pedometers account for things like...let's say that in 1 hour YOU can walk 4 or 5 miles...while I'm doing good to hit 2.5 in 45 to 60 minutes (and then my right knee balloons up). I would think that you are exerting more energy (i.e. faster and/or longer strides)...so your calorie burn for that same '1 hour period) should be much greater than mine...right? How do step counters account for this - especially ones on your phone that you are 'carrying' and not let's say...a fit bit or some other device that may or may not be more advanced than me swinging my phone around while I walk?

I guess I need to google/study 'burn rate'. I would think that maybe having a better metabolism..one that is more revved up may also play a factor? That is the reason I started exercising after WLS - I knew that having been so very inactive for more than a decade, I had harmed my own internal metabolism and that WLS was only a tool but if I didn't get my rear in gear, nothing would change in the end (this is what I personally feel).

Flash forward from my surgery in July...to 3 months later when I hit my first 2 miles hiking (no major elevations due to torn up knee)...and I was SO bummed out that I had to stop as my knee just exploded in swelling. I have learned how to manage to keep the swelling reduced but it involves slowing my stride...and also...stopping before I overdue it. Have managed to push it to 2.5 miles now - don't get me wrong, weight loss is helping but it can't cure everything for my knee. I never ever thought I would enjoy hiking! Heck, I'm in awe of hitting 4 miles per day and more on a cruise!

So....what the heck do you do to burn that many calories in a day? Is it hard core stuff like running? I'm a slightly reformed/newly reformed couch potato so I am in NO WAY challenging your burn rate...I'm just learning from this thread..that there are other things I need to factor in although my main focus will remain on hitting my dietary goals/keeping to the calorie and other macro limits....as well as making sure I'm getting at least 1 hr of physical activity 3 to 4 times a week and work on increasing that up.

I meant like total calories. Workouts right now is only about 250-400 plus what my body would burn doing nothing . So in a 24hr period of time I should be around 2500-2600 cals a day total. I wish it was that many just working out haha.

I’m going to try to get my cals in the morning/mid day and see if it makes a difference. I’m pretty active chasing a 5,4,3,2 year olds around and when they finally crash for the night is when I want to eat everything . 😩

[KarenLR75 515]

16 minutes ago, CapyCapybara said:

I’m pretty active chasing a 5,4,3,2 year olds around and when they finally crash for the night is when I want to eat everything . 😩

Dear Lord! That should count for all least 500 calories PER CHILD!!! That is how I do my math...LOL...

I can TOTALLY understand wanting to eat 'all the things' when they crash...may be the first time you've been able to actually eat sometimes and I'm recalling that from having only 2 kids....LOL..OMG, I was a sedentary Mom in comparison too..to be honest, I was in decent shaped in my 20's, was never morbidly/super morbidly obese until my late 30's and wow did it take a toll on this poor body.

I have made myself one rule for late night eating that...sigh....I have not enforced the past 3 weeks and that is anything I eat late at night (ok, for me this is like 11 PM...I work globally so I can be up as early as 7 AM CST and work sometimes until 2 or 3 AM depending on what we are working on - this does NOT help my overall health - lots of shift work disorder issues. Oh, back to rules:

1) It needed to be less than 20% of my overall calories for the day. I then made it really simple and stuck to sugar free Jello, sugar free popsicles..basically anything under 100 calories

2) It needed to NOT be in my bedroom, on the couch or in a recliner. If I was hungry enough to eat, I needed to eat it at my dining table even if the lights were completely off (husband has normal job)

I had to make these rules because as I was watching my 600 lb life I realized I was slowly trapping myself into exactly what I was watching - ppl who had to struggle so hard to do anything, losing the ability to get out of bed, ONLY being able to eat on a bed...and reminded myself at 390...I was SO CLOSE to being on that show. Not that there is any shame in that but things were hard enough, embarrassing enough, and with the knee injury from working out ironically, I finally had a true physical limitation where I had never had one before..not even at 390 - I could walk across entire warehouses with no issue.

ONLY 1/2 of my weight loss that is shown came from 'after WLS' - the first half took me 15 mos of TRULY dedicated Keto and moving some..until I tore left meniscus on right knee running down stairs (BAD idea for working out, by the way)...then 4 mos later, I tore the right meniscus (same knee) walking down a hill. I knew when I struggled to walk, to do grocery shopping..that I had to make a major change and that for me was WLS. I had considered it for 3+ years and prepped for it - mentally and physically....obviously mental is an ongoing work in process.

Edited January 9, 2020 by KarenLR75

[KarenLR75 515]

22 minutes ago, CapyCapybara said:

I meant like total calories. Workouts right now is only about 250-400 plus what my body would burn doing nothing . So in a 24hr period of time I should be around 2500-2600 cals a day total. I wish it was that many just working out haha.

PHEW...was starting to feel like even more of a slacker.......like dang...I'm on a thread with triathletes on it..where is the normal person thread? LOL...

Seriously though..kudos to everyone who can burn through so much...I know from following some other threads, there are ppl doing some really hard core serious workouts - I mean like multiple hrs a day! That is one reason I get irritated that there is such a misconception/misperception that WLS is the 'easy way out'...those ppl have no clue...

[CapyCapybara 107]

Haha I like your math!

Those are great rules!!! I’m going to start doing those.

I need to watch my 600lb life

[mommabear4909 2]

Ok so it’s not just me too. I lost 10 pounds during the fasting prior to my sleeve surgery. I am only 3 weeks after surgery but I only lost 4 pounds. I mean I have also only just been able to start working out. I guess slow and steady 🤦‍♀️.

[Sheribear68 3,200]

Okay, jumping into this thread a bit late, but I lost pretty slowly and still got to (and now 14 pounds under) goal weight.
The main point is to trust the process and keep working your plan.
I see where many of you guys have identified places that might be causing the slower loss, so as long as those issues are addressed and corrected, the process should start to roll easier.

I’m almost certain that 18:6 IF is what finally got me past a couple of “sticking points” and to goal.
I’ve lost 106 pounds since surgery on 2-6-19, which isn’t even 10 pounds/month.
The key was that I did manage to lose consistently 6-7 pounds monthly after the initial massive loss.
It doesn’t take dramatic numbers, it just takes consistency and willingness to work the program every single day.

[Dances with Carbs 168]

Maybe it's just a sign I've been on BP too long, but over and over again I have seen people complain that they are slow losers, but are actually just average or even fast losers.

How much of THE SLOW LOSERS CLUB is actually the Unrealistic Expectations Club?

I'm not at all saying there aren't slow losers. Life is a bell curve, and there are half as many people on each end. But I think the attitude displayed by those like [mention=323408]FluffyChix[/mention], [mention=360178]Cheeseburgh[/mention] and others are what make the difference. I mean even for slow losers, isn't weight loss the fastest after WLS then any other "diet"? Even most slow losers get to -100 lbs or more in a year or so.

I just think labeling yourself a slow loser can be self defeating at times and seems very dysmorphic at others.

Maybe labeling as slow loser is not so much self defeating but rather a soothing way to accept that we don't lose at the same pace. And losing as much as our bodies will allow is still good. When there are those that post they lost 60 pounds in 2 months and ask why they are slow losers; that's definitely dismormphic and maybe makes others who are losing at a normal pace wonder if they are the slow losers. But you have others like fatboy slim who just advise people who aren't as quick to lose, to just eat less (which just isn't helpful). Then he assumes all these people on here must be lying about their calorie intake because stalls and slow weight loss isn't a part of his world. Having someone who is not struggling tell you that you must be to blame for your slower loss......that is defeating. Not venting at you, just to you. I just needed to get another perspective out there.

[sillykitty 10,774]

10 hours ago, Serengirl said:

right but Im not in a coma. I have an apple watch and they have been proven to underestimate what you burn in a day. Its not hard to calculate how many calories you burn all day long between apps and the watch. You can get a pretty accurate sense of what your full burn is for the day and per workout in addition to steps etc. My resting ,metabolic rate - if i laid down all day is around 1900 (lowballing) add in my workouts and my daily activities and its really easy to burn another 2100 ontop of the 1900. burning 3500 calories (which includes the 1900 -ish) over the course of a day is super easy especially if you aren't sitting around all day. And again, I am lowballing numbers.

I'm not sure where you are getting that information from. But you would literally have to run a marathon everyday to burn those kind of calories.

[sillykitty 10,774]

1 hour ago, Dances with Carbs said:

Maybe labeling as slow loser is not so much self defeating but rather a soothing way to accept that we don't lose at the same pace. And losing as much as our bodies will allow is still good. When there are those that post they lost 60 pounds in 2 months and ask why they are slow losers; that's definitely dismormphic and maybe makes others who are losing at a normal pace wonder if they are the slow losers. But you have others like fatboy slim who just advise people who aren't as quick to lose, to just eat less (which just isn't helpful). Then he assumes all these people on here must be lying about their calorie intake because stalls and slow weight loss isn't a part of his world. Having someone who is not struggling tell you that you must be to blame for your slower loss......that is defeating. Not venting at you, just to you. I just needed to get another perspective out there.

I appreciate your perspective.

From being on BP for clearly too long, I have seen two things repeatedly from self diagnosed "slow losers"

Many "slow losers" latch on the the 60 lbs in two months and believe that is the norm. I wouldn't even say that is dysmorphic or self defeating, it's just illogical (or maybe pity party-ish?). Any information outside of those few outlier posts would tell them it's not the norm, but yet they persist in labeling themselves despite losing at an average or even above average rate.

Many "slow losers" at first claim to follow plan perfectly, have huge calories deficits etc.. But then when questioned it often comes out that they aren't logging, or logging inaccurately (or maybe believe their metabolic burn rate is higher than it is in he case of @Serengirl)

I do believe in CICO as a general rule, but know there are tons of astericks and fine print. There are stalls and set points, there are medications, and hormonal issues, and a slew of other things that affect the "calculation". But at the end of the day all weight loss is due to burning more calories than you take it.

I have an issue with @Serengirl statements like "I can eat consistently in the mid 600's, Protein around 90, Water over 80oz and i workout hard at least an hour 6 days a week and i can lose - NOTHING. ZILCH. NADA" That is untrue over any sustained amount of time for the vast, vast majority of people. I think posting that information is unhelpful, and needs to be contradicted. WLS is hugely successful for most people. I wouldn't want anyone researching WLS to see that and decide it's not worth it from posts that have a significant negative bias.

As I stated I have no doubt there are actual slow losers, the bell curve and all. But it seems that many people put that label on themselves and persistently defend it, despite evidence to the contrary.

[froufrou 678]

I'm a slow loser too. I have a lifetime of a mindset to work against, a body that just doesn't like to give up weight easily and I'm getting older. But, the one thing I have figured out is to not give up.

To the people who have jumped in to this thread to prove their points about science... can you now leave it at that and move on? I think the point has been made.

[Fatboyslim1 204]

33 minutes ago, froufrou said:

I'm a slow loser too. I have a lifetime of a mindset to work against, a body that just doesn't like to give up weight easily and I'm getting older. But, the one thing I have figured out is to not give up.

To the people who have jumped in to this thread to prove their points about science... can you now leave it at that and move on? I think the point has been made.

Sorry, but No.

You are not a slow loser. You have lost 129 lbs in 12 months. You are a perfect example of how wonderfully this system works. The OP and others who obviously DO NOT FOLLOW THE PLAN state that they do "follow the plan" and can not lose weight, or even worse, put on weight. They then push this self fulfilling failure in a manner that makes people think that WLS does not work.

There is far to much good to be had with this type of surgery and follow through, to allow it to be muddled with absurd fake news about how weight loss does not run parallel with CICO.

The Slow Loser concept is a myth. You seem to be a perfect example of that. Congratulations!