Changing beliefs to fit behaviors

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

There is no place to post this where newbies won't see it and newbies are likely to become annoyed, accuse me of being mean... whatever. So be it, go for it and say what you have to say. Cuz you know what? I don't care.

I received a PM this morning regarding a thread where someone did as they do, cheated on the post op diet. Someone a little more experienced came back essentially saying that when s/he cheated an old timer came back throwing a fit. It was probably me that s/he was talking about. Okay. I probably did throw a fit.

The more experienced bandster went on to say that they didn't believe anything I wrote and they had no problems from cheating on the post op diet.

How stupid is that? Seriously, what kind of dumb ass does it take to say it's no biggie to go against the post op instructions?

The claim is that the diet has changed and all these docs have different diets so it really doesn't seem to matter what you eat because (the way I read it anyway) regardless of what you eat post op you are following SOME doctor's diet SOMEWHERE.

Yeah, this is true. Some docs don't even mention there IS a post op diet (Laurend's doc, for example). Others are too strict such as my own doc.

Anyone know why the docs are changing the post op diet? They are dumbing it down for us. We don't follow the diet. My own doc did the same thing. His thinking was that people aren't doing what they are supposed to so to make it a little easier he essentially dumbed it down so that people wouldn't cheat.

I can understand that, and to be honest I am the one that pushed him into changing the diet because people are not following it anyway. His was two weeks of clears, two weeks of fulls, two weeks of solids, and gradually reintroduce solids. That is too much, people couldn't do two weeks of clears so they eat fried chicken at 4 days post op. I think the thinking from patients is that if they are going to cheat anyway, they might as well go for it. When I approached him about changing the post op diet he was a little annoyed and basically said if I could do a better job with it to write it out and he'd consider it. He took most of my suggestions, not all but most.

You know, the stats for slips are increasing. They have gone from 3% globally to now Inamed is hinting that it is up to 7%.

Gee, I wonder why.

When I saw that thread I had to restrain myself from suggesting all dumb asses eat taffy and steak right after surgery. I actually had to restrain myself from writing that. I'm to the point that I don't care, they can eat what they want. It's their band, their stupidity, their everything. I'm not talking someone who learns from their mistake but instead someone who changes their beliefs to fit their behaviors. Big, huge, mega difference. I am not talking someone who doesn't understand the reasoning behind the diet, I'm talking someone who knows full well why the diet is important, WHAT is healing (and it's not stomach swelling), someone who knows they are doing something wrong and instead of bloody well taking responsibility for their own actions they justify it by changing their beliefs to fit their behaviors and telling newbies that the old timers are wrong.

You know what isn't wrong? Slips that have more than doubled since docs started changing the diet. At first I thought it was newbie docs that didn't have a clue what they were doing because they are not experienced. Everyone wants a piece of the $$$ bariatric pie. It's easy money for many docs. I thought it was their technique. But you know, it's since the docs started changing post op diets that slips have more than doubled.

But those of us who have followed the diets, worked hard, and reached or are reaching goal... we don't know what we are talking about.

I don't know how much longer I'm going to harp about post op diets. It might make a difference to a small few but I see posts whining about old timers and others whining that we don't know what we are talking about.

I'm going to stick to pushing research BEFORE surgery. Let the dumb ass idiots eat steak and taffy if they are truly dumb asses. It's their band, their choice. AGAIN!!!! I am referring to those that know better but change their beliefs based on their own behaviors vs. reality.

I honestly don't know if I am in a pissy mood today or if I actually mean what I am writing. How's that for distorted!

[Gummiebear 0]

I dont think that is a mean post at all. personally. I dont know why there are not clear cut guidlines for everyone either. It gets confusing when alot of people are doing something else and makes u wonder if your method is ok or not. Some docs say one week on liquids post-op, others two weeks, and some do not even do pre-op liquids. I am not sure on the stats of slips but some of it I wonder if it has to do with the band being not very old and there not being alot of data yet. And some of it could be peoples diets also. I actually try to follow the advice of what most people do on the site rather then my personal doctor because these are the people who told me I could eat anything I wanted post-op as long as its not greasy. So I try to make things stricter on myself (just in case). I also find that at my doctors office depending on who I see some people are stricter than others. One person tells you that u can eat anything and another yells at you for eating something that may not have been the best choice. How confusing would that be for someone.

[faithmd 14]

That was a GREAT post. WASaBB. I posted behind the other bandster in that thread you were referring to and posted Inamed's post-op guidelines. Which by the way still suggest WEEKS of liquids. Interesting how doc's diets change but the BAND MANUFACTURER still suggests being careful and protecting the band. I posted that once in another thread and was basically told that Inamed only says it because they are trying to avoid lawsuits. If someone sues because of a slip or erosion they can say, "See, we say it right here, four to six weeks for healing." I can see that side of it, but on the other hand...really, it doesn't take a freaking rocket scientist to know that things in a moist warm enviroment don't heal as well as a dry one, so inside your body where is it wet, it isn't going to heal as fast as outside your body. Hence, a suture line isn't going to heal and scar tissue isn't going to form as quickly around the stomach as a cut on your leg would.

I think we should all be required to WATCH the video on or-live.com of the lapband placement. It clearly shows that while the band is stitched in place on the FRONT of the stomach, NOTHING holds it on the back. The surgeon has to basically ream out a little opening in there to slip it around and that needs to heal and scar to hold it in place.

I read one post where someone said ther doc told them it WON'T slip because he stitched it so well. Sorry, not possible to say that. The video on or-live shows and explains why you can't suture on the backside of the stomach (too close to the spinal column, HUGE potential for nicking something).

You get a papercut and keep bending your finger, it opens up, right? When you eat, you cause the stomach to churn and move (it is a MUSCLE) to move the food down into the digestive tract, isn't that a lot like flexing your finger? How can healing happen very quickly if you keep "flexing" your stomach?

I will be watching the slippage stats with interest over the next few years.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we didn't get fat in six weeks, why in the FU*K can't we stick to a diet for six measly little weeks to give us the best chance possible at a new life? Hell, you (you in a general sense, I'm including myself in the "you") had SURGERY because you couldn't lose weight on your own, then you're going to risk the band and another SURGERY because you just HAD to have that bite of rice or whatever??? Sheesh!

If this were a pregnancy and the doctor told you that you had to have liquids for six weeks to protect your fetus, you'd do it. you'd probably not eat a solid bit of food for months. Why on earth can't we protect our own lives with as much fervor?

I get tired of reading the posts about the post-op diet period that say "If I could diet, I wouldn't be fat" or "If I had willpower I wouldn't need the band." You know what, you need to get your head straight now because the band doesn't do it all. It may HELP, but it can't do it for you. I know, I've been at the same stinking weight for three months. All my fault, but I'm not going to say that the band isn't working.

Done with my rant, I'm off to shoot a deer.

[~Trixie~ 0]

I agree with everything that you have posted regarding this issue. I haven't been banded yet, but this is something that I have griped about with my husband after attending only one support group meeting. I was floored by what I heard from some people. It seemed as though they were testing the power of the band, eating WHOLE Bagels with cream cheese, sweets, potato chips, etc. And guess what, they were also the ones who were complaining that they had seen minimal weight loss.

To make matters worse, there was one woman who just had the procedure done the week before who had already started to cheat. She wasn't even a full week out and had already started to incorporate eggs and tuna. Side note: the practice that I go to has a very strict and detailed post-op diet that they give to EVERY person in a binder along with other very pertinent information at the FIRST consultation visit with the surgeon. It is explained that it must be strictly followed in order for one to allow the stomach time to heal from the surgery before it digests solid food. Not only is this explained by the surgeon and mentioned in the literature, but it is also in the QUIZ that one must pass in order to have the procedure done. Granted, everyone is going to stray now and then from a diet, but come on? In the first week? Shouldn't that be the time when a person is the most motivated and the most likely to follow instructions to a T?

This truly hits a sore spot when one thinks of all the people who are abusing this very special gift that countless people worldwide could be benefiting greatly from, but due to extraneous circumstances like insurance denial, lack of financing, and so on, are unable to have the procedure.

Unfortunately, Wasa, you can't save everyone. If people continue to rebel like spoiled teenagers instead of accepting sound advice, they are only hurting themselves. If looking at the success that you as well as others have literally worked your asses off to achieve isn't enough proof of the validity of your experience, then they are lost causes and not worth the energy it takes to type to them. Please concentrate your effort where it is appreciated, by sharing your advice and experience with those of us who will take it to heart!

[VegasGrace 1]

My current doc is like Forrest Gump's doc... a no nonsense kind.

Get it done.... well, he says, if you are hungry...EAT.

And if it hurts...don't do it

My weight loss has been slower than most as I still eat normally, just cut back on quantity. But I have, thankfully, lost a taste for some junk foods.

When I used to post I had to do a disclaimer that this is me and is not recommended.

But WE are ALL different and what works for 1 won't work for another. And if I had to do liquids/mushies for as long as the book said...I would have cracked and surely done some damage.

Not that I didn't try...but I'm a realist. Everyone chose their doc for a reason...so listen to your doc, you are paying her/him.

[transformer 1]

I know I'm not at or near my goal weight, but I saw the thread Wasa is writing about as well. I followed faithmd's lead and also posted my doctor's recommended post-op instructions (which I actually followed--am I in the minority, I wonder?).

It's one thing to slip up on occasion which we all do, but whenever I read that a doctor's instructions don't matter and aren't important I get really steamed (could be due to my strong science background or my incredibly logical nature). :angry Why bother having a medical doctor perform the surgery if you aren't going to do anything he/she says? Why bother paying a pile of money for a surgical procedure if you plan to totally disregard all recommendations for your recovery period and beyond? :noidea: If medical advice is so unimportant, let me just pull out my dissecting kit from my college anatomy and physiology class and I'll start banding people in my backyard! Heaven knows I could use the extra money during the holidays!

It absolutely baffles the mind...it also indicates that there is likely to be trouble ahead on the horizon when it comes to adapting to living with the band for the rest of your life. This is a life-changing surgery--you have to commit to living differently. The fact is that you can't keep doing the same things that made you fat in the first place or guess what? YOU ARE GOING TO STAY FAT! :faint: What can I say? I am truly the master of stating the obvious! :biggrin1:

Wasa--I don't know if it's worth repeating the same things over and over again either. It seems to fall upon deaf ears. As I learned from being married, you can't make anyone do anything they are not committed to doing (thus explaining why I've been divorced for 14 years now)!

All of us who have been through the banding process just want all of the new bandsters to come through their surgery nicely healed up and healthy so they can change their lives for the better without having to suffer through unnecessary complications.

So, for those who intend to eat whatever the heck they want and thumb their noses at their own doctor's medical advice (and the sound advice of so many obnoxious, self-righteous, and condescending bandsters--sorry for stealing your tag-line Chickie!) I say go for it! You want to eat steak the day after banding? pizza? Cookies? Krispy Kreme donuts and all of the other junk food you ate before banding? Super! Someday when your lapband slips, goes "sproing!," and winds up migrating out of your goshdarned vagina :eek:, don’t come back to the forum whining and wringing your hands because you "have no idea what went wrong" and expect us to fall all over ourselves to offer our sympathies. :violin:

I think I'm done ranting and raving now. :rant: I'm going to go away now and focus on my own weight loss because that is the only thing I can control!

[snowbird 2]

I was just over on my doctor's forum, and there's a woman there on day 8 after surgery saying she has been stuffing her face for the last three days and wants to know if she might have stretched her pouch -- "I need advice." I had to back away from the keyboard before I told her she needed a brain transplant, not advice.

[losingjusme 12]

transformer -

they will come back here and bitch that they've slipped but they will reason that it wasn't because they ate steak 4 days post op, it will somehow be the MD's fault.

wasa - I completely agree. it gets so frustrating that these adults are just refusing to take care of themselves. I mean damn people, you are not going to 'starve to death' on liquids if you are doing them properly with concentrating in Protein (or even if you aren't concerned with the protein)

everyone who has posted has made fabulous points, I'm just on my iPhone right now, can't sleep, and too tired to use multi quote and this keyboard.

[mcgreen 0]

if you look at a scar healing on your leg or foot- think about how long that takes to heal completely? Why wouldn't the same thing be true internally- give the scars a chance to heal so your band doesn't go anywhere in the future. People are insane for cheating IMO- why risk losing a band that you worked so hard to get?

[bandpal 7]

I am newly banded and want to thank you all for contributing to this thread - it's exactly what I need to hear, and what you're putting out here is exactly what I plan to do - follow my doctor's instructions without deviation, and learn to respect and love the body that I have neglected and persecuted for so long. And step one is letting it heal.

[SherryW 4]

I've been reading these posts and the others mentioned for a while but, staying on the sidelines. I have to say that if a doc doesn't have band rules and guidelines for after your surgery....is he/she really caring about what happens to you or his/her work? Cripe...I can't even imagine eating something so solid like steak a few days out of surgery. My surgeon's information also said it takes 8 weeks for everything to heal correctly so a week on Clear liquids, 2-3 on full liquids, 2 on mushies and then move on to more solid food but, softer solids. It made sense to me so I followed it. Cripe....I went through heck to get the surgery between all the requirements, tests, pre-op, info meetings etc....not to mention the mind games you have to work through for yourself, the guilt of not being able to do it on your own etc. Why? Why would someone want to ruin all that hard work for a piece of steak or junk that you're not going to remember you even had...never mind whether or not you even remember enjoying it. I can attest that I enjoyed seeing that damn scale move more than I ever did a piece of cake or cookie or whatever the fix was in the past. It's worth following your docs food plan while healing.

Doesn't it scare anyone reading about the slips or erostions? I know it scared the bageebers out of me. Now I'm far from a saint, I have had some foods that are higher in cals and fat that I probably shouldn't have but, I definately didn't do that until I was in the clear healing wise. Potato chips still occassionally call me (PMS time) but, I take a handful and that's it...I'm done and I work it off. I can understand how hard it is to give up EVERY fattening food, pleasing treat etc but, we have the band to help not eat so much of it and to help make better choices. I don't have a problem with people indulging once in a while but, I really don't agree with doing it prior to healing etc.

I have valued the insite of those who have reached their goals and/or who have been here a while. Especially those who helped me understand what a PB was because that wasn't within my paperwork or information from my doc. They called it something else so it was helpful to know the shortcut versions here. Thank you "seasoned" LBTers for your help and your continued support and for posting your knowledge here for all to learn from.

ok enough ramblin from me.....Thanks so much for all your help!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I think we should all be required to WATCH the video on or-live.com of the lapband placement. It clearly shows that while the band is stitched in place on the FRONT of the stomach, NOTHING holds it on the back. The surgeon has to basically ream out a little opening in there to slip it around and that needs to heal and scar to hold it in place.

My doc was explaining that the act of reaming out that little hole in the back so the band can slip around the stomach might be one cause of erosion. They might scratch the back of the stomach. Nothing proven, just another theory. It does help to explain why some docs have a 0.0016% erosion rate and I just discovered a doc that has an 18% erosion stat. Both are from Mexico. They both use the same bands, both get general population Americans, and both have around 1600-1700 bands done.

I read one post where someone said ther doc told them it WON'T slip because he stitched it so well. Sorry, not possible to say that. The video on or-live shows and explains why you can't suture on the backside of the stomach (too close to the spinal column, HUGE potential for nicking something).

I read that post too. Couldn't believe what I was reading. Sometimes people try to 'one up' their doc compared to another and I questioned if the person was just trying to show her doc was better or if she was actually told that load of crap.

I get tired of reading the posts about the post-op diet period that say "If I could diet, I wouldn't be fat" or "If I had willpower I wouldn't need the band." You know what, you need to get your head straight now because the band doesn't do it all. It may HELP, but it can't do it for you. I know, I've been at the same stinking weight for three months. All my fault, but I'm not going to say that the band isn't working.

Done with my rant, I'm off to shoot a deer.

I have to admit, I *do* understand the concept of "If I could diet I wouldn't need a band." It's true. If I could have done it and kept it off I wouldn't have needed a band. That does not mean there were not a few "white knuckle" moments where it simply took a bit of critical thinking skills and will power. It's a short time, not a life time. So all in all, I agree with you.

Tishbite2:

To make matters worse, there was one woman who just had the procedure done the week before who had already started to cheat. She wasn't even a full week out and had already started to incorporate eggs and tuna.< /div>

Try reading that daily and try spending time with these people explaining why and how this is bad for their band/healing and then see how you feel when they tell you that you don't know what you are talking about. HA!

And tuna/eggs... those are foods that are pretty hard to eat with swelling from surgery. You have to work at those. People think eggs would be easy to eat. Many experienced bandsters can't eat eggs at all and newbies are eating them? Sheesh....

This truly hits a sore spot when one thinks of all the people who are abusing this very special gift that countless people worldwide could be benefiting greatly from, but due to extraneous circumstances like insurance denial, lack of financing, and so on, are unable to have the procedure.

Maybe that is part of my problem with all this. I see so many that are struggling to pay for surgery. They are actually digging through garbage dumpsters looking for things to sell to earn money for the surgery. Then some dumb ass that gets surgery paid for with insurance doesn't see the benefit in following the rules.

I am not bellyaching that my insurance didn't pay for my surgery, I have WLS coverage. The way things ended up being, had I gone through my insurance about the time I'd be getting my first fill under insurance, I was actually at goal instead because I opted to go to Mexico. So I had a choice. Many don't. They don't have a choice and they have to scrimp and save for years to get surgery or they put themselves in debt trying to get surgery.

Just my experience on the boards but it seems as though the folks that had to pay for their surgery themselves seem to value it more and they FIND a way to deal with post op hunger.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

So, for those who intend to eat whatever the heck they want and thumb their noses at their own doctor's medical advice (and the sound advice of so many obnoxious, self-righteous, and condescending bandsters--sorry for stealing your tag-line Chickie!) I say go for it! You want to eat steak the day after banding? pizza? Cookies? Krispy Kreme donuts and all of the other junk food you ate before banding? Super! Someday when your lapband slips, goes "sproing!," and winds up migrating out of your goshdarned vagina :rant:, don’t come back to the forum whining and wringing your hands because you "have no idea what went wrong" and expect us to fall all over ourselves to offer our sympathies. :violin:

I think I'm done ranting and raving now. I'm going to go away now and focus on my own weight loss because that is the only thing I can control!

HA! You always make me laugh! I have visions of working in an ER again someday with some lady walking funny as she enters ER and a port hanging out of her vagina due to eating steak. :eek:

Snowbird:

I was just over on my doctor's forum, and there's a woman there on day 8 after surgery saying she has been stuffing her face for the last three days and wants to know if she might have stretched her pouch -- "I need advice." I had to back away from the keyboard before I told her she needed a brain transplant, not advice.

I've gotten pissier than before about these people since reaching goal. Now that I have finally lost weight I want everyone to experience buying normal size clothes at Dillards. I just want to smack them and ask how serious they are about weight loss???

LosingJusMe:

they will come back here and bitch that they've slipped but they will reason that it wasn't because they ate steak 4 days post op, it will somehow be the MD's fault.

It's always someone else's fault. I'm not buying into that BS anymore (not that I ever did) but I'm going to start calling people out on it.

Bandpal:

I am newly banded and want to thank you all for contributing to this thread - it's exactly what I need to hear, and what you're putting out here is exactly what I plan to do - follow my doctor's instructions without deviation, and learn to respect and love the body that I have neglected and persecuted for so long. And step one is letting it heal.

Glad my temper tantrum could help as well as our overall whining and feetie stomping.

Before I was amused at the whining about old timers. Yesterday was a weird day and I was really angry and in need of an old fashioned temper tantrum.

[transformer 1]

By the way, I DO realize that it is not medically possible for a lapband to spring out of your body at will or exit through your Veejayjay (or any other body orifices) before somebody accuses me of spreading inaccurate information! LOL! :doh:

To help us cope with the TV writers' strike, I think the lapband slip scenario I painted above would make for a mighty fine episode of Grey's Anatomy or House! Why does a penis-fish come to mind about now??? And the couple having sex who got stuck together??? Oh, to have such problems! I can think of a few people I'd love to get stuck to! :heh:

I think I could earn some more extra holiday spending money writing obesity-related scripts for TV shows (in addition to the profits from my "Beaded Bands by Transformer" specialty practice in my backyard shed). Coordinate your lapband to match your favorite holiday outfit--choose your colors now!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Are you trying to tell me a band cannot exit via the vagina after eating steak 4 days post op?

Nawww, I just don't believe it!