should i intervene?

[ypease 177]

Yes. Please call the clinic. They can't "MAKE" him change his behavior, but they may be able to intervene in some way. Since the info started from a third party disclosure, I think I would stay away from reaching out to his family. If they accidently disclose or even alude to where they got their info from, being you are his coworker, it could become ugly at work. It could also end up including the third party coworker. I saw a situation something like this where I retired from.

[Deedee12 1,860]

I called. I spoke to the Program Manager at the office and told her what I had been told and what I had seen, and that I had seen pictures of him from being in the hospital from the hemorrhaging last week and he looked horrific. I saw the before photos (of him at 450lbs) and seeing how gaunt he is now would haunt me the rest of my life if he does die and I didn't at least do something. She is going to check with his surgeon to see if they are even allowed to call and do a random check-in. She said it would just be something casual and they would act like it was a regular follow-up call like an appointment confirmation/9 months check-up call. Not actually bring up anything I said, but leave it to him if he wants to say anything.... so he doesn't feel cornered or know anyone "ratted him out". just as if they called everyone at this midway point to see how they were doing. I told them I felt very conflicted about even calling, but they said they deeply appreciate patients like me and my concern for him and they will move forward in the best way they feel they can... if at all. They may not do anything, which is fine... I just couldn't sit by and say I did nothing.

Bravo Mousecat [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji169]🧡[emoji169]🧡[emoji169]🧡

Sent from my SM-N960U using BariatricPal mobile app

[Healthy_life2 8,324]

You can support your co worker. It's up to the family to do an intervention. If they dont know how to start the process, send your co worker resources in your area for alcoholism. There are also support groups for family members.

Sent from my SM-G930T using BariatricPal mobile app

[Frustr8 7,886]

And I think you handled it well 🐭🐺, he maybe like I tended to be, that no one cares what happens to Him, Might as well drink, probably feels it is the Only thing he can rely on, a "Hi Joe, just thought I would check how You're doing" feeling like You Do Still matter is a great Mood Load-leveler, I would guess he's in the clutch of Depression Too. And that is one Nasty clinging thing to get loose of- been there, done that and like any addiction, very hard to ditch. Underneath my thin new exterior is lurking a Depressive Foodaholic , never totally gone but under control 📅 Day by Day. And it remains worth the struggle to be redesigned, renovated and remodeled but never a easy peasy thing. And that's how MsFrustr8 sees it all.

[GreenTealael 25,352]

Nothing to add except this odd coincidence today

🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒 Story Time 🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒

So I'm sitting here the ER with a sore throat (waiting for my thoroughly hot physician to evaluate me) when a random patient blasts past me and nurses chase her down.

I overhear the following conversation:

*names changed to prevent HIPPA violations*

Nurse Jackie: Where are going , hun?

Sally Speedman: I'm going home to sleep

Nurse Jackie: we can't let you go home. Youre intoxicated and threatened to harm yourself

Sally Speedman: I want to go, I'm not drunk

Nurse Jackie: Your alcohol level was over 400. We cant let you go. Security or Police will stop you and we will need to strap you to the bed. We don't want that. Please follow me back to your room

Sally Speedman: This is my life & I can do whatever I want. I had gastic bypass so my alcohol only appears higher than normal people

Nurse Jackie: Sorry but you are intoxicated and you have threatened to harm yourself 4x this month alone. The bypass doesn't change how much alcohol is currently in your blood. You are a danger to yourself. Crisis will need to evaluate you and your levels need to be stabilized before you are released...

🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒🕒

Patient is escorted by nurses and security back to room.

I'm beginning to wonder how many people are experiencing crossover addictions/increased addiction/mental health crisis after WLS. We don't talk about it much prior to surgery except the warning not to drink etc but I don't see a lot of support groups/threads for it popping up either. Are they too embarrassed to ask for help so they simply fall through the cracks? Are Surgeons/Teams just not prepared to support these patients?

Edited August 19, 2019 by GreenTealael

[gabybab 696]

Myself, I would contact the person directly and offer your support. I would only say that I was told that you're not able to est solids and have lost a tremendous amount of weight and could I help you. Maybe he needs a bariatric friend. Good luck!!

[FluffyChix 17,415]

13 minutes ago, GreenTealael said:

Are they too embarrassed to ask for help so they simply fall through the cracks? Are Surgeons/Teams just not prepared to support these patients?

I agree and great post. Sorry for Sally Speed-demon but awesome on Nurse Jackie!

I think it could be a potential delicate walk. I used to work in hospitals while going to school and I can honestly say that bias DOES exist between doctors and nurses. They are taxed for time/energy/attention with all the people they must take care of during their shift. And they have to work with many repeat offenders who present over the legal limit (way over) and are incoherent and at crisis. And some come in with legit medical issues, but often they are written off because of their previous visits involving over-consumption of alcohol or their alcoholism. I can only think it's even worse now, since ER visits are up, nurse staffing is down, and so is doctor staffing.

So I think that if you go to your bariatric surgeon and level with them, it's hard and could represent a gamble for that person. Cuz afterward, whatever your legit problem is or potentially is with surgery, you could just be written off as, "Well, he or she is an alcoholic so it's cuz of their alcohol problem."

That same thing happens every day with mental health issues in practice (not just in bariatrics). And once you are labled a head case, docs are more resistant to seeing you and/or taking your issues seriously (beyond it being related to so-in-so's mental health). I know this happens. I've seen it happen working in the field. It is very tough to not get biased by underlying mental health and addiction issues. And it's very difficult for that patient to be taken seriously by anyone and not handed-off to an unsuspecting doctor somewhere else. They become a drain on their resources and income. No doc likes a squeaky wheel. It costs them money.

Edited August 19, 2019 by FluffyChix

[sillykitty 10,774]

18 minutes ago, GreenTealael said:

I'm beginning to wonder how many people are experiencing crossover addictions/increased addiction/mental health crisis after WLS.

And I wonder how many times it truly comes out of the blue vs. lurking under the surface prior to WLS.

[New&Improved 1,780]

Not really much you can do even if you ring nobody can force this guy to get help or even respond to the doctor.

[Chiptress 327]

I’m still in hospital & on pain meds so I’m not super clear headed but..., I would definitely do or say something . There’s also a closed group on fb “transfer addiction after WLS”. I would give it some thought. Not sure which direction i would go in but I would do something to try & help.,

[mousecat88 2,280]

To be honest, the impression I got was that they weren't going to reach out to him because they typically only do so if another physician contacts them with their concerns. But, she assured me if they did it would be a benign "just checking in" call and they wouldn't bring up anything I said. That way, he wouldn't feel as if "anyone knew his secret" or he was pressured to say anything. I feel like I did the right thing. I also didn't give them my name - just that I was a patient that had surgery a few days before he did.

I work in a building that has a large public recovery resource center right downstairs and my coworker is very familiar with all of the resources they offer for addictions. The family just doesn't care. It's just sad. I'm not pushing it any further or involving myself in any other way.

Edited August 20, 2019 by mousecat88

[ypease 177]

You did the right thing. Just an FYI, don’t assume the family doesn’t care. You may not know the whole back storyline. This may not be a new phase in this persons addiction problems. It certainly doesn’t sound like it.

[mousecat88 2,280]

21 minutes ago, ypease said:

You did the right thing. Just an FYI, don’t assume the family doesn’t care. You may not know the whole back storyline. This may not be a new phase in this persons addiction problems. It certainly doesn’t sound like it.

When I said the family doesn't care, I meant like... I was told that they aren't bothering seeking help for him or telling his doc because "he does it to himself so he will just die". That's just what she said. I'm sure they CARE to a degree, but not enough to do anything else for him. I've certainly gotten to that point with someone I know who has an addiction. I get it.

Edited August 20, 2019 by mousecat88

[froufrou 678]

22 hours ago, GreenTealael said:

I'm beginning to wonder how many people are experiencing crossover addictions/increased addiction/mental health crisis after WLS. We don't talk about it much prior to surgery except the warning not to drink etc but I don't see a lot of support groups/threads for it popping up either. Are they too embarrassed to ask for help so they simply fall through the cracks? Are Surgeons/Teams just not prepared to support these patients?

It makes me wonder how many people's anxiety, depression, etc medication has stopped working because of malabsorption.

[froufrou 678]

7 hours ago, mousecat88 said:

To be honest, the impression I got was that they weren't going to reach out to him because they typically only do so if another physician contacts them with their concerns. But, she assured me if they did it would be a benign "just checking in" call and they wouldn't bring up anything I said. That way, he wouldn't feel as if "anyone knew his secret" or he was pressured to say anything. I feel like I did the right thing. I also didn't give them my name - just that I was a patient that had surgery a few days before he did.

I work in a building that has a large public recovery resource center right downstairs and my coworker is very familiar with all of the resources they offer for addictions. The family just doesn't care. It's just sad. I'm not pushing it any further or involving myself in any other way.

mousecat, you've done your bit. You've done your best. Now it's up to the universe to sort it out.