Onederland, 5 yrs ago. Now...

[Dr-Patient 830]

Hello, wls comrades. Five years ago today, I entered Onederland after a VSG Dec. 2013.

HW: 271. SW: 257.2. Lowest weight: 180.8 (1/23/17). I wanted to get to 175, but my face was getting so thin and I was looking older/wrinkled. My Onederland weight was "197.8" and I smiled so broadly!! Alas, today, I weigh 206...ten pounds heavier than that day, and 27 pounds above my lowest weight. Grrrrrr. I am bummed, as I'm having a hard time getting back under control. I'm mad at myself. Just saying.

I'm considering having a re-do...a second VSG later this year...because I don't want to be in that fight again. I'll see how I do between now and July. Keep me in your thoughts/prayers. Although I had NO complications, was done outpatient and did great, I don't want another surgery, but more...I DON'T want to be in that fight again, nor be over 200 pounds. But I'm told that ghrelin returns after 5 years; I'm approaching 6 years, so...'Hello, Heartache... here we go again..."

My thought is...if I have another VSG ~205 pounds; lose 50-60 pounds, get to ~140-150. Then if I regain 20 pounds after five years (when i'll be almost 70 y.o.), wth. :-) I won't worry about it then. lol. When I was at 180 pounds, I was a near-size 10, feeling real good, etc.I can 'finish out' around that weight. Just thinking. Any thoughts? I may try that old "Master Cleanse," if I can hang in there the first few days. I'm open to thoughts to get back on the food track. If I can do that and get over the hump, I may be able to lose again. Hmm.

[gabybab 696]

Can you do another sleeve? Interesting!

I hear people talking about revision to rny.

I wish you all the best!!

[Healthy_life2 8,327]

Does this mean that everybody 5 years out will need to be re sleeved. Do you really need to be re sleeve to lose 27 lb?

Sent from my SM-G930T using BariatricPal mobile app

[Dr-Patient 830]

1 minute ago, Healthy_life2 said:

Does this mean that everybody 5 years out will need to be re sleeved. Do you really need to be re sleeve to lose 27 lb?

Sent from my SM-G930T using BariatricPal mobile app

I'm hoping not :-). I'd suggest that folks do all you can to NOT get back into the bad carbs thing, nor resume eating too fast. Also, if you can exercise, good. I have two shattered discs in my L-S spine, so serious sweat burning, running, etc., is out. Also, products with Splenda/sucralose don't work for me. I don't lose weight with that substance (and that's what's in practically all the Protein Drinks, etc.)

"Everybody" may not need to be re-sleeved; but ghrelin can and does return, so keep that in mind.

I'm going to keep trying. I'm making some tea now to have it ready in the morning. But like I said, i don't feel like being in the 'fight.' I've succeeded at everything else in my life; but that 'weight' thing... The VSG was the BEST thing I ever did, and if I have to do it again... it just might have to be. But...I'm trying!!! Thanks.

[Healthy_life2 8,327]

2 minutes ago, Dr-Patient said:

I'm hoping not :-). I'd suggest that folks do all you can to NOT get back into the bad carbs thing, nor resume eating too fast. Also, if you can exercise, good. I have two shattered discs in my L-S spine, so serious sweat burning, running, etc., is out. Also, products with Splenda/sucralose don't work for me. I don't lose weight with that substance (and that's what's in practically all the Protein Drinks, etc.)

"Everybody" may not need to be re-sleeved; but ghrelin can and does return, so keep that in mind.

I'm going to keep trying. I'm making some tea now to have it ready in the morning. But like I said, i don't feel like being in the 'fight.' I've succeeded at everything else in my life; but that 'weight' thing... The VSG was the BEST thing I ever did, and if I have to do it again... it just might have to be. But...I'm trying!!! Thanks.

I understand how re gain messes with your emotions. I’m five years out. I had a gain my third year and worked it off. It was not easy. I am concerned that you don’t want to “fight” for the weight loss. Even with a revision it still takes work to lose the weight and maintain it.

Search around the site and get perspective from people that had revisions. They can help you research that option. If you are interested in losing without revision, many of us can give you advice on how to get back on track

I wish you the best,

Jenn

[Healthy_life2 8,327]

1 hour ago, Dr-Patient said:

But I'm told that ghrelin returns after 5 years; I'm approaching 6 years, so...'Hello, Heartache... here we go again..."

My two cents on what to expect five years out…for whatever its worth.

I feel real and head hunger. I have since I was six months out, I had to find ways to satisfy hunger.

Eating Added carbs and sugar will cause hunger and make you crave them more. Detox off them

Ditch soft Proteins, shakes and bars. Years out they will never keep you feeling full. Eat dense Protein with the other foods on your plan. Eat as much veggies as you want until full. It will help keep your calories in range.

Keep healthy sweet and salty items on hand for cravings

It’s very common feel less sleeve restriction as you progress out from surgery. It’s not full size but you can hold more food volume. Just because I can eat more food does not mean I have to eat over my weight loss/maintain calories and macros and gain weight. I log my food in myfitnesspal.

[lzucks 232]

How do you have a 2nd VSG? I’ve never heard of this and don’t understand. Thanks.

[Healthy_life2 8,327]

9 hours ago, lzucks said:

How do you have a 2nd VSG? I’ve never heard of this and don’t understand. Thanks.

https://www.endobariatric.com/weblog/2018/05/09/resleeving-revising-other-bariatric-surgeries/

[catwoman7 11,221]

I agree with the above poster. Go back to basics - dense Protein first, then veggies. Maybe an occasional piece of fruit or whole-grain carb. Lots of people have regain - better 27 lbs than 100 lbs!! It'll take awhile to get it off, but it WILL come off. I'm fighting a 10 lb gain myself... I'm sure your tool still works - you just need to rein in your eating

[FluffyChix 17,418]

I think you have to ask yourself, what will change with a 2nd surgery? How will YOU treat the tool differently? You are expecting the same outcome from a re-sleeve. I think that's an inaccurate premise. Re-surgery does not carry the same risk/reward return as a virgin surgery: the weight loss is MUCH slower/harder, there is usually LESS weight loss from it, and a 2nd surgery carries significant risks for complication.

The surgery is only a tool. Much like a hammer, it won't drive in a nail unless YOU pick it up, use it properly and repetitively apply forceful action to it over time. Our surgeries require our cooperation and repetitive attention to the details over time. It's not magic bean surgery, a free ride, or a passive experience.

IMHO, 27lbs is a very do-able amount of weight to lose. You might even be surprised by how much restriction your still have if you go back to the basics you observed right after surgery when you got your forever diet. By not only changing the quantities you eat at each meal, and by ditching the sugar, carbs, and booze, you will reformat your ghrelin, insulin, leptin, PPY receptors. By changing the foods you feed your gut, you can also change the foods you crave.

I'm 15months out. I can tell you, if I feed my gut crap carbs for only 1 meal to 24 hours and add a bunch of fat to that (i.e. pizza, high satiety high carb high caloric meal, I will begin craving another meal of just that composition: Pasta, pot pie, dumplings, gumbo with rice, hell, anything with rice. But, if I remain consistent with my food and Protein, fats, carbs, my cravings and hunger diminish and I actually crave "clean" nutrient dense food.

You should also give IF and EF a try, cuz it too will help reprogram your hunger response.

I'd also look into counseling and going back to a support group. You can stop it at 27lbs and reverse this! You can do it!

Edited May 15, 2019 by FluffyChix

[Dr-Patient 830]

13 hours ago, Healthy_life2 said:

My two cents on what to expect five years out…for whatever its worth.

I feel real and head hunger. I have since I was six months out, I had to find ways to satisfy hunger.

Eating Added carbs and sugar will cause hunger and make you crave them more. Detox off them

Ditch soft Proteins, shakes and bars. Years out they will never keep you feeling full. Eat dense Protein with the other foods on your plan. Eat as much veggies as you want until full. It will help keep your calories in range.

Keep healthy sweet and salty items on hand for cravings

It’s very common feel less sleeve restriction as you progress out from surgery. It’s not full size but you can hold more food volume. Just because I can eat more food does not mean I have to eat over my weight loss/maintain calories and macros and gain weight. I log my food in myfitnesspal.

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and support! I appreciate it...and you. I've lost two pounds this week, so I'm refocusing. 2-3 days without the bad carbs is the needed trick for me, so...so far, so good this week. It should get easier in another 2 days. I revisited the BP site because I know others can relate to the journey.

Thanks again!!

[Dr-Patient 830]

1 hour ago, FluffyChix said:

I think you have to ask yourself, what will change with a 2nd surgery? How will YOU treat the tool differently? You are expecting the same outcome from a re-sleeve. I think that's an inaccurate premise. Re-surgery does not carry the same risk/reward return as a virgin surgery: the weight loss is MUCH slower/harder, there is usually LESS weight loss from it, and a 2nd surgery carries significant risks for complication.

The surgery is only a tool. Much like a hammer, it won't drive in a nail unless YOU pick it up, use it properly and repetitively apply forceful action to it over time. Our surgeries require our cooperation and repetitive attention to the details over time. It's not magic bean surgery, a free ride, or a passive experience.

IMHO, 27lbs is a very do-able amount of weight to lose. You might even be surprised by how much restriction your still have if you go back to the basics you observed right after surgery when you got your forever diet. By not only changing the quantities you eat at each meal, and by ditching the sugar, carbs, and booze, you will reformat your ghrelin, insulin, leptin, PPY receptors. By changing the foods you feed your gut, you can also change the foods you crave.

I'm 15months out. I can tell you, if I feed my gut crap carbs for only 1 meal to 24 hours and add a bunch of fat to that (i.e. pizza, high satiety high carb high caloric meal, I will begin craving another meal of just that composition: Pasta, pot pie, dumplings, gumbo with rice, hell, anything with rice. But, if I remain consistent with my food and Protein, fats, carbs, my cravings and hunger diminish and I actually crave "clean" nutrient dense food.

You should also give IF and EF a try, cuz it too will help reprogram your hunger response.

I'd also look into counseling and going back to a support group. You can stop it at 27lbs and reverse this! You can do it!

Thanks so much. I've lost two pounds this week, walking away from the bad carbs. I agree that if I can slow down my eating, avoid ALL bad carbs, I will probably get the stomach shrinkage I had and will have better control.

I'd saved a few of those applesauce cups (4 oz), so I'm putting my food into those. That's helping with portion control; that and drinking some lemon-tea with ACVinegar.

I had many friends die in the past 6 months and I 1) was busy caring for them as a friend (not as their doctor/surgeon). One friend had a major medical mishap after her heart surgery [!!], She survived, though, thank God; and 2) I had so many home repairs to be done--now completed--so big money was flowing out, etc., I eased up on my usual habits, and had unusual 'emotional/compassion fatigue." I was emotionally spent, and began grabbing whatever, and eating fast. So...

But friends have done what they were going to do--those who were dying, died [just sayin']; others are out of the hospitals/ICUs, etc, doing well--so I can get back to caring for me :-)

Thanks again !!

[Dr-Patient 830]

11 hours ago, lzucks said:

How do you have a 2nd VSG? I’ve never heard of this and don’t understand. Thanks.

You can. It's possible to stretch your sleeve , and if so, the stretched part can be cut off again. I'm going to see how I do this summer. Two pounds down since Sunday. Thanks.

[FluffyChix 17,418]

3 minutes ago, Dr-Patient said:

Thanks so much. I've lost two pounds this week, walking away from the bad carbs. I agree that if I can slow down my eating, avoid ALL bad carbs, I will probably get the stomach shrinkage I had and will have better control.

I'd saved a few of those applesauce cups (4 oz), so I'm putting my food into those. That's helping with portion control; that and drinking some lemon-tea with ACVinegar.

I had many friends die in the past 6 months and I 1) was busy caring for them as a friend (not as their doctor/surgeon). One friend had a major medical mishap after her heart surgery [!!], She survived, though, thank God; and 2) I had so many home repairs to be done--now completed--so big money was flowing out, etc., I eased up on my usual habits, and had unusual 'emotional/compassion fatigue." I was emotionally spent, and began grabbing whatever, and eating fast. So...

But friends have done what they were going to do--those who were dying, died [just sayin']; others are out of the hospitals/ICUs, etc, doing well--so I can get back to caring for me 🙂

Thanks again !!

I'm sorry you have had such emotional upheaval in your life. ((hugs))

But with all due respect, you and I both know that your reply is steeping in a very large, very hot, steaming cup of rationalization. ((hugs)) Life happens. That's the bottom line. Our resources get taxed. We become emotionally, spiritually, and possibly nutritionally "overdrawn."

But here's where the logic error happens:

If A>C, and B>C, then A+B>C

By this logic, NO ONE would ever maintain their weight loss from WLS because we would all succumb to the stress and inevitably revert to recidivism and the old behaviors that caused us to get fat in the first place.

But the reality is that although it often feels like a Herculean task, we CAN change our bodies, minds, spirits and become empowered for those times when we are beset with LIFE. Right? So A+B is not always > than C. But it doesn't happen passively. And as I said above, WLS isn't a passive experience (unless you want to eat and lose as much as you're gonna lose from the surgery alone, then after 3-5 years when life intrudes and diet fatigue takes root, and the poor habits of a lifetime begin again, you just passively allow the regain to occur.

We all must devote as much or more time to doing the head work on our inner fat brain. Cuz seriously. Once we have a fat brain, we always have a fat brain. We're simply travel in and out of remission. Right?

It's understanding THAT premise, and embracing it, that allows me to work on making deeply ingrained changes in my thinking, emotions, behaviors, with food and in minding those things, it truly allows me to refill my spirit and recharge my mind and energy stores. But we first must START by accepting the premise and stop the rationalizing.

Glad you've lost the 2# it's a great start and can't help but give motivation!!!! Woooot!!! WTG!!! Keep doing what you're now doing and you will see how quickly you can regain control and lose the extra fat!!!! Yay!!!

[Sandra Nuelken 419]

If you're talking about a gain of 30 pounds try to return to good eating, maybe join WW for some help and support, just don't throw in the towel and give in. I had a band and lost 100, with the expectation of gaining about 15 when all settled out, but gained more due to slippage. Just reset your mind and eat clean.