Where am I going wrong?

[Alpaca55 168]

Fluffy ... You are so frigging wise!! Xx

[Alpaca55 168]

so...I need to have more patience and trust the process. Something weird happens with my Water retention and its linked to my heart arrhythmias... I had a heart episode last night and as a result have lost 1.5lbs this morning. I must talk to my cardiologist about it as he might have some thoughts...

Today I am not using Stevia drops... I'm adding some spinach and a bit of asparagus as its the season... I have really missed veg so hoping these additions won't spike my insulin or water retention. I'm having these veg with some grilled chicken using my brand new Forman Grill!

A new alien thought for me to process... 6 months ago, I would be eating an extra burger of 700cals if I was hungry ... and my brain hasn't caught up with how in the new bariatric world, the differences could be as minuscule as 50 to 100 extra cals. I've pretty much disregarded differences of that small amount. It was what Fluffy said yesterday - to up my cals to 750. I first thought that that difference wasn't going to make any difference as it was too small... but, obviously I'm still using my fat-brain and haven't converted it to being more normal ... Jeez... this is such a learning curve... re-educating an ancient old biddy like me is taking some time and I'm not a natural maths or science person which I'm learning is quite an important skill to have when adjusting macros or mixing things up in the food lab...

Thank you all for your tolerance - I've also realised I'm a bit of a moaner xx

[FluffyChix 17,415]

Keep this post going with your experiments. You'll soon start to see patterns. And I think the "rule of small numbers" helps keep us moving in the right direction without having a dramatic gasping right or wrong at the end of the move. If it's positive, yay! If it's negative, then it's easily reversible. Right?

Your moves sound like they are great decisions!!! (Oh and those days of easily eating an extra burger or turning a blind eye to eating an entire bowl of chips and salsa!)

[Alpaca55 168]

So... I've been reading a Bariatric book and this is a quote from the book: "This means that even after bariatric surgery, your BMI is still likely to be in the overweight range and at least 25% over BMI 25. This is considered a successful outcome after bariatric surgery, although it sometimes differs from what individuals hope or expect to lose." I'm amazed that they have written such a defeating comment! I don't want to accept it and it feels wrong for the author or the bariatric surgeons to assume that we can't get to a 'normal' weight! It feels discriminatory... But perhaps I'm over sensitive... When i first had my consult with the surgeon he asked me how much i wanted to lose. Because of the shame i have about my eating i found those types of questions too difficult to answer truthfully so I just told him i wanted to lose enough to feel comfortable and happy with the way i looked. Not sure I know where I'm going with this but it does feel like there's a discriminatory mindset - even among the bariatric medical community... There are so many people on this forum and all the others who prove that statement wrong every single day. "huff"

[KCgirl061 1,532]

21 minutes ago, Alpaca55 said:

So... I've been reading a Bariatric book and this is a quote from the book: "This means that even after bariatric surgery, your BMI is still likely to be in the overweight range and at least 25% over BMI 25. This is considered a successful outcome after bariatric surgery, although it sometimes differs from what individuals hope or expect to lose." I'm amazed that they have written such a defeating comment! I don't want to accept it and it feels wrong for the author or the bariatric surgeons to assume that we can't get to a 'normal' weight! It feels discriminatory... But perhaps I'm over sensitive... When i first had my consult with the surgeon he asked me how much i wanted to lose. Because of the shame i have about my eating i found those types of questions too difficult to answer truthfully so I just told him i wanted to lose enough to feel comfortable and happy with the way i looked. Not sure I know where I'm going with this but it does feel like there's a discriminatory mindset - even among the bariatric medical community... There are so many people on this forum and all the others who prove that statement wrong every single day. "huff"

I think there are a lot of different people out there getting weight loss surgery and handling it in different ways. When I started by journey I was here on BariatricPal and several "support groups" on Facebook. The sheer amount of enabling on the support groups was unbelievable to me! People telling each other it was fine to eat whatever you wanted in moderation. Encouraging to cheat on the pre op liquid diet and sometimes even post op diets. Anyone that tried to say "no, don't eat that, it has too much sugar, make a better choice" was labeled food Police and bullied. I had to leave and this is the only place I've stuck around because I don't see that here. I see people genuinely helping each other, not enabling the bad decisions that lead to WLS in the first place.

My point is, I truly believe those people, the ones with the "you can eat whatever you want in moderation" mindset, the ones saying "I'm eating ice cream and cheeseburgers and still losing weight, I must be doing something right!", they are the ones that will end up not losing the weight they want and regaining it back. That is the 25% over the 25 BMI group of people. Stick to the path you're on. Make the permanent lifestyle change from unhealthy foods. From the look of your food diary you are doing great and I have no doubt that you will exceed the 'average' weight loss.

[FluffyChix 17,415]

So you've heard the phrase: "Even a blind squirrel can find a nut every once in a while."?

For me, that's kinda like WLS. If you are "reasonably" trying to follow your surgeon and RDs plan (with more than a few slips), you will quite likely wind up in the BMI + 25% category. But no guarantees.

IMHO, the stats are true. That whatever they are (can't remember and can't be bothered to go get the exact figures from ASMBS), fit and give an accurate picture of the WLS population. But those figures are based on the average. And everything in life is a bell curve. Most (80%) fall under the large curve, and the other (20%) are considered outliers cuz they fall outside of the greater bell and into either ascending or descending asymptotes.

And the ASMBS does not want people being over promised. And our surgeons don't want insurance to stop paying for surgeries. So they give us the stats based on averages. And that way they are making sure someone doesn't come back and say the surgery failed me. So they set up our expectations.

My RD and surgeon both tried to do that...tried to make me understand I won't ever reach my ideal weight.

But you also need to know that "ideal weight" is not defined by you or me. It is defined by an archaic insurance chart from the 60s or 70s that defines what the "ideal weight" based on a calculation. For women that calculation is 100lbs for the first 5 feet of height, and +5lbs for every inch over 5 feet. So for a 5'4" woman, the ideal weight is 120lbs. And that is what the BMI charts are based on.

My cardiologist said I had not a snowballs chance in hell of hitting my ideal weight as defined by the charts. He was saying 120lbs is impractical for me. But never-the-less, that is my "IDEAL" weight.

My surgeon's goal for me was 156lbs and it was based on this formula (my 1st goal for myself was 150lbs):

Surgery Date Weight - Ideal Weight for 5'4" = EBW (excess body weight)

222lbs - 120lbs = 102lbs EBW

EBW * 65% (average EBW loss due to RNY) = Goal Weight defined by Surgeon and RD/ASMBS

102lbs EBW * 65% = 66lbs of EWL (expected weight loss from RNY) = 156lb Goal.

*************************

They don't want us being overly optimistic and perhaps failing and either getting depressed, or committing suicide for failiing WLS. You know? So they manage expectations. But they also told me, that the average doesn't mean that I can't apply concentrated focus and effort and do better than the average (in other words--become an outlier--and I am an outlier).

I found it very depressing when my RD kept saying to quit losing. That I would only tax my body and make myself look drawn and old. My surgeon told me to stop at 140lbs. I just shook my head in agreement and am continue to do what I want. I will have to suffer the consequences if I go too low and get sick from it. (But at 125lbs I'm only smack in the very center of my "normal BMI range."

****************************

Also, ASMBS defines success in WLS at 5 years as having maintained up to 50% of the original weight lost through the expected weight loss percent. Pretty dismal statistics right? That means, if the surgery is ONLY A TOOL (as we are told), then we can't afford NOT to treat this as a golden shot to re-write our life with new rules for the food relationships that got us morbidly obese in the first place. I truly do not believe that "everything in moderation" is gonna cut it--no matter WHO you are or where you fall in the bell curve.

[MrsGamgee 756]

Sorry for jumping in on the convo here, but that formula just scared the tar outta me. Based on where I'm expecting to end up on surgery day, that means my predicted end weight would be in the 170s?!? Yikes! Talk about motivation to do this thing right. When I grow up I want to be like Fluffy!

**doubling down on pre OP exercise**

Sent from my SM-G960W using BariatricPal mobile app

[FluffyChix 17,415]

52 minutes ago, MrsGamgee said:

Sorry for jumping in on the convo here, but that formula just scared the tar outta me. Based on where I'm expecting to end up on surgery day, that means my predicted end weight would be in the 170s?!? Yikes! Talk about motivation to do this thing right. When I grow up I want to be like Fluffy!

**doubling down on pre OP exercise**

Sent from my SM-G960W using BariatricPal mobile app

You should set your goal where YOU feel comfortable. Some want more weight on their frame. Some carry heavier frames. Some carry way more muscle. I thought I was "big boned" for all my life. Turns out, now that I see it, I'm just boringly average, so there's no reason why that calculation shouldn't apply to me. I am not a super athlete, don't have more bone mass than other 5'4" women, and am not super muscular by genetics. But you MIGHT be! You know?

I personally? Think curves are a bit overrated and a bit of a cop-out rationalization. At least for me. I don't want to carry 15lbs more on my ass or in my boobs (impossible cuz I had a double mastectomy), or in my belly. I just don't want to do it anymore. My degenerative arthritic joints and back can't handle the load as I age! So why settle for anything more than my "normal bmi weight range" = smack in the middle of normal and congrats. It's also right at 120-125lbs. How odd, right? NOT!

But I think most of us set a higher goal than we should. Most of us revise once we're there and see what we still look/feel like. (That's why I have 3 goals + a top secret goal.) But some don't.

1. Some cheat and love living life and are unwilling to give up there drug of choice: food, alcohol, drugs, etc. and so they settle for 25% above goal--going through the angst and pain of surgery to never realize their goal.

2. Still others are just flat dealt a bad hand from life: medications, illness, excess skin, mobility issues, mental health issues that prevents them from reaching goal--so they land where they can and God bless em.

But in my opinion, if you are able to, we should all aim for as close to ideal weight as we are comfortable. Cuz I swear REGAIN will happen to most of us. And I only want to be here once. As a friend said, "I only want to do one-year-of-weightloss one time." I heartily agree. I don't mind dealing with 2-4lbs of loss...but not a year or 2 years worth of losses.

[MrsGamgee 756]

Right now I'm thinking 140 for my goal, but I just can't visualize that, and I'm hopeful that goal will change as I get near to it. But if I did the math on the formula you shared above correctly, I would end up in the mid 170s, and that is NOT acceptable for me. My new mantra is "be an outlier".

Sent from my SM-G960W using BariatricPal mobile app

[FluffyChix 17,415]

Just now, MrsGamgee said:

Right now I'm thinking 140 for my goal, but I just can't visualize that, and I'm hopeful that goal will change as I get near to it. But if I did the math on the formula you shared above correctly, I would end up in the mid 170s, and that is NOT acceptable for me. My new mantra is "be an outlier".

Sent from my SM-G960W using BariatricPal mobile app

You are 5'4". You have the same ideal weight as me. But it's gonna depend on your weight at surgery day. So you can't really figure it now. I'm pretty sure I did my math right and remember their goal for me.

I set 150 as 1st goal, set 140 as 2nd goal, set 130 as 3rd goal--then I and only then will I reveal the top secret weight as an official goal.

Haha on your mantra. Damn skippy. Outliers forever!

[iluvbears42@yahoo.com 48]

Get rid of the sweetener and the cheese. You are not eating enough Protein. Yes cheese has protein but its fattening. Unless you are a vegan you need to eat meat.

[summerset 5,265]

7 hours ago, Alpaca55 said:

"This means that even after bariatric surgery, your BMI is still likely to be in the overweight range and at least 25% over BMI 25. This is considered a successful outcome after bariatric surgery, although it sometimes differs from what individuals hope or expect to lose." I'm amazed that they have written such a defeating comment!

I'm sorry that this seems to burst a few bubbles in some users time and time again but these people are just realistic. It's their experience, it's what the studies say and that's just that and patients should be prepared for exactly this outcome.

Of course there are people who reach a normal weight and maintain it but there are also people who gain back everything.

Quote

There are so many people on this forum and all the others who prove that statement wrong every single day.

And there are most likely many more people who prove them right every time they come to follow up appointments.

[summerset 5,265]

7 hours ago, KCgirl061 said:

My point is, I truly believe those people, the ones with the "you can eat whatever you want in moderation" mindset, the ones saying "I'm eating ice cream and cheeseburgers and still losing weight, I must be doing something right!", they are the ones that will end up not losing the weight they want and regaining it back. That is the 25% over the 25 BMI group of people.

People have different opinions and experiences. My opinion is that strict diets are the sure-fire way to burnout and regain in the long run. Of course there always will be people who thrive on restrictive diets just like there are people who lose a lot of weight and maintain it without WLS.

I'm not the "eat junk food in moderation every day and lose weight" type of eater but I'm definitely eating stuff that many users on here label outright as "evil" daily. I have to consider some food intolerances though.

I really strongly believe that the diet has to fit the individual. I also believe in the principle of "best weight possible" and that also some luck is involved when it comes to the outcome of WLS (e. g. some people don't experience intense feelings of hunger, some do and it seems to be quite random which group you will belong to).

However, "luck" is a word most patients don't like to hear when it comes to WLS and that's completely understandable IMO. It raises the fear in some patients ("OMG, will I be one of the lucky ones?!") and other patients are reacting flat-out pissed ("WHAAAAT??? You're suggesting I was just lucky?! This is just all MY hard work!") whenever someone mentions "luck".

Edited April 13, 2019 by summerset

[Alpaca55 168]

It's been a crazy, tough, stressful week!! Haven't hardly had time to read posts never mind actually posting ... I've been strict on plan except for last Sunday - I ate 3 French fries because they got delivered with my omelette at a hotel I was staying at... they weren't particularly tasty but the damage to the number on the scale was 3lbs which has taken me the rest of the week to lose... sheesh!!

I've eliminated Stevia drops and trying to wear a straight-jacket in food terms as I'm so desperate to get to 199 that I will try and do my utmost to get there! At the moment, I haven't eliminated the 38cals chocolate drink which I have at about 6pm... I have to look forward to something otherwise my eating plan is way too miserable ... each and every day is a struggle... I check and re-check my food choices all day every day ... I'm seeing my head witch on Wednesday - mostly to try and keep me sane and anxiety-free... thankfully the prolapsed disc is getting less painful and the heart is stabilising which is great! hoping it continues... next stress now is the weather... I was diagnosed with malignant and aggressive melanoma 2 years ago - on my face would you believe! had an op and they removed 5cm circle of my cheek and then did a reverse face lift flap to fix the missing bit... I looked like 'scar-face' for ages ... my face has started to be less noticeable thank goodness... but, I'm extra high risk now for UV damage and re-occurring cancer ... so I'm looking for a decent hat with a broad rim... never been a 'hat person' but it's that and/or UV protecting umbrellas... ho-hum... life would be far too boring if I had nothing to think about!

[Frustr8 7,886]

Congratulations. on beating Melanoma, that is one Scary- Larry dude to mess with. Go ahead and get your hats, but interject a little funky spirit into each one, if necessary make it your signature item. Challenging but I believe you are the person to do it And you'll do us proud.