Not my Dr., Thank Heavens!

[Orchids&Dragons 9,047]

I went to a support group meeting last night where the speaker was a surgeon from a different practice than my doctor. His topic was success after WLS. His number one strategy was for wl patients to not eat more than 800-900 calories. He wasn't talking the weight-loss phase. He was quite clear that he meant FOREVER! He said if you were a HEAVY exerciser, you could maybe increase that by 200 calories on the days you worked out. Oh, yeah, for exercise do cardio, no weights. Muscle building has nothing to do with weight loss. I couldn't make this up! And this was his guidance for both male and female patients!

All I could think of was "Thank heavens he's not my doctor!"

[S@ssen@ch 745]

Yes. Thank heaven's he's not my doctor either!

I would be curious to learn upon what principles he based this recommendation. What evidence is there to support this? I would never claim to be a nutritional expert, but from what little I do know, 800-900 calories FOREVER is the equivalent of asking someone to be in a constant state of malnutrition and starvation. Besides, I doubt that something like that is sustainable for the long term.

[GreenTealael 25,335]

That's kinda insane, and I'm sure he is not alone...

[Frustr8 7,886]

I once had a doctor who informed me " no baby should be nursed over a month" Why? Because if you bottle-feed you can control their calories better. Hmm maybe he was a classmate of the above doctor? And thank God, I kicked him off my medical roster, could not see a reason staying there.

[FluffyChix 17,415]

25 minutes ago, Orchids&Dragons said:

I went to a support group meeting last night where the speaker was a surgeon from a different practice than my doctor. His topic was success after WLS. His number one strategy was for wl patients to not eat more than 800-900 calories. He wasn't talking the weight-loss phase. He was quite clear that he meant FOREVER! He said if you were a HEAVY exerciser, you could maybe increase that by 200 calories on the days you worked out. Oh, yeah, for exercise do cardio, no weights. Muscle building has nothing to do with weight loss. I couldn't make this up! And this was his guidance for both male and female patients!

All I could think of was "Thank heavens he's not my doctor!"

@Biddy zz 🏳️🌈 Her doc in NZ says almost the same thing. He has a study of over X number of patients and has a phenomenal success rate with very very little regain which is highly unusual.

I so agree with cardio for weight loss then muscle build at the end of your losses. I'd heard this a long time ago...But what do I know about fitness...almost nothing!

It sounds really hard to do in theory. But let me illustrate. I'm told that regardless of how far out I am, I need to limit my portions to 1 cup. Here's my planned menu for today based on 1 cup of food/3 meals. It's higher on fat today cuz I'm having salmon 2 times due to leftovers.

Sure, it doesn't leave any room for shenanigans or rich comforty food, but it gets my basics in. I could add another meal or two of just veg for very few more calories and I doubt it would wreck me to have 5 small meals rather than 3, but this is theoretically a sustainable diet. Right? I think if we planned on doing this 95% of the time and then exercising too, we'd prolly have little issues with having 5% shenanigans. Or at least I'm hoping for that!!

Oops! Sorry I forgot to take out the Sausage Patty and replaced it with turkey sausage. I'll correct it now.

Edited January 9, 2019 by FluffyChix

[Orchids&Dragons 9,047]

@FluffyChix I think that's a perfect meal plan for the weight loss phase, but if I thought I'd eat like that for the rest of my life, I'd start feeling really deprived. I hope my doc is right with closer to 1400-1500 calories for maintenance. And I can't imagine a man functioning long-term at 800-900 calories/day.

[FluffyChix 17,415]

36 minutes ago, Orchids&Dragons said:

@FluffyChix I think that's a perfect meal plan for the weight loss phase, but if I thought I'd eat like that for the rest of my life, I'd start feeling really deprived. I hope my doc is right with closer to 1400-1500 calories for maintenance. And I can't imagine a man functioning long-term at 800-900 calories/day.

I don't know...I haven't exactly been tearing up the streets with losses since I hit 150lbs. For most of Nov/Dec I ate this way 95% of the time and fu*ked off the other 5% and maintained essentially at a 150lb range. So I'm thinking maintenance to me may be nothing more than average of 800-1100 cals loosely.

[Naughty Glitter Goddess 645]

I don't have as much time under my belt as the others but in my personal experience, what you are eating seems to be much more important than the calorie content of such foods. 800 calories of carbs a day is gonna be crap (not to mention it's not very much food) But 800 calories of lean Protein is a world of difference.

As for me, I'm not just trying to be skinny, I'm trying to be fit and healthy. Dietary recommendations and research change so much over time as we learn more about how our bodies work. I have no doubt that calorie restricting yourself long term is more likely to keep you thin than not counting calories. But I'm not convinced that it correlates directly with how healthy and fit one might be.

I want to strong, have ripped abs and arms and be able to try new sports without fear. That will require a strong, muscular body which is just not gonna happen on 800 cal/day. This is what they mean when they say everyone's journey is individual. People have to find a support team that understands their goals and gives advice specific to reaching it. He should not be running a support group if he doesn't get that.

I know you already know all these things but I would have had to hold myself back from lecturing that dude! In these situations, I tend to drink lots Water in order to keep my big mouth shut. At least I'm hydrated and irritated!

<end rant>

Edited January 9, 2019 by Naughty Glitter Goddess

[Starry*Night 148]

I have one of those very restrictive surgeons. He wants me to eat 2 oz of Protein and up to 1 oz of veggies per meal - forever! Although he does recommend eating throughout the day vs a 3 meal plan. That doesn't add up to many calories in a day! And when I asked him about eating too few calories (I was just a few weeks post op, but eating maybe 150-300 calories a day. Now I'm probably around 500) he said don't worry about eating too little, it's not an issue and I have plenty of reserves to keep my body going. He said the only time eating too little is an issue is if I start feeling dizzy, and in that case it's most likely low blood sugar and I should have some diluted juice for the sugar.

He's been spot on so far though. I've dieted and ate this little in the past before surgery (around 400 calories/day - obviously not healthy, I have issues becoming too obsessive when I calorie count), and definitely felt dizzy and felt the room spin. Now, if I eat 400 calories of healthy, whole foods I feel like I've been eating all day and I'm absolutely stuffed and my body is fine.

The surgery does have lasting physiological changes that I believe affect the amount of food we need to eat for the rest of our lives, IMO. The jury still seems to be out on that one though - I see some people eating 1600 cals a day post op and I think I'll never be able to eat that much. I can't even imagine being able to eat 1000. I don't have a source on this, can't remember where I read it, but it seems like 1000-1200 a day for a woman post op for maintenance is the standard - whereas for people who've never had the surgery, that would be a strict diet.

[YeahOkay31 651]

Um, yeah, this is a no from me dawg.

1200-1400 calories is what I got from my nutritionist for the maintenance phase. What is more surprising is the comment about not weight lifting....it is well established that muscle burns more than fat. Does this doctor even know that google exists? 😜

[Orchids&Dragons 9,047]

48 minutes ago, FluffyChix said:

I don't know...I haven't exactly been tearing up the streets with losses since I hit 150lbs. For most of Nov/Dec I ate this way 95% of the time and fu*ked off the other 5% and maintained essentially at a 150lb range. So I'm thinking maintenance to me may be nothing more than average of 800-1100 cals loosely.

That's pretty much my point, though. This looks like the number that will work for you, and you're a petite woman. I just don't see it working universally for all wl patients.

[Starry*Night 148]

20 minutes ago, YeahOkay31 said:

Um, yeah, this is a no from me dawg.

1200-1400 calories is what I got from my nutritionist for the maintenance phase. What is more surprising is the comment about not weight lifting....it is well established that muscle burns more than fat. Does this doctor even know that google exists? 😜

That's the part that surprised me too! I do know that some docs take the stance (Matthew Weiner and Due Vuong on YouTube, for example) that they don't want you working with heavy weights for a while after surgery (for Doctor Weiner, he focuses more on exercise in the second year and diet/establishing good eating habits in the first) because they are afraid you'll injure yourself and that setback is worse than not exercising at all. However, Weiner is totally okay with more PHYSICAL ACTIVITY, just not strenuous exercise, and if you do want to work with weights, he prefers working with your own body weight versus external weights because the chance of injury is less.

I think his POV makes a tremendous amount of sense - but even he wants you building and maintaining muscle.

[Walter.Sobchak 978]

I told you guys I have a friend from church and she only takes in 800 calories per day and she is like 18 months out.
I can do 800 calories for Breakfast easily.

[Starry*Night 148]

3 minutes ago, Walter.Sobchak said:

I told you guys I have a friend from church and she only takes in 800 calories per day and she is like 18 months out.
I can do 800 calories for Breakfast easily.

I could totally do 800 calories for dessert 😝 I have a feeling some Cookies and cake would go down just fineeee 😋🍴

Time to go drink some Water and pretend it's a cookie!

[GreenTealael 25,335]

14 minutes ago, Walter.Sobchak said:

I told you guys I have a friend from church and she only takes in 800 calories per day and she is like 18 months out.
I can do 800 calories for Breakfast easily.

Time to add some KALE...

FIGHT. ME.

😎