Prayer! If you do not believe in prayer, do not click on this post..

[ellie123 374]

58 minutes ago, Russ D said:

A rebuttal, if I may.

First, as near as I can tell, "everyone" wasn't calling names. One person was. That person, for whatever reason, didn't like the fact that this thread was here and entered the discussion to be disruptive, and succeeded in creating enough of a disruption to get it moved to what is effectively a dead board.

Second, what makes its current home the "appropriate forum"? The Lounge, per the description at the top of the board, is for any discussion "not specifically related to Weight Loss Surgery." Read through the requests and responses on this thread. The vast majority of people requesting prayers here are doing so out of concern for their or their families' weight loss surgery. Pre-op anxieties, post-op problems, anxieties about insurance (I think, to my recollection anyways)...how is that "discussion not specifically related to Weight Loss Surgery"?

I would posit to you that there have been many people on this thread that have received a sense of peace and comfort on having people know and reach out to them in their hour of fear and unease about the dramatic life shifts that WLS entails. Isn't that what the primary Weight Loss boards are all about? No, not everyone is going to find this thread helpful or even necessary. Does everyone on these boards find every bit of advice and information helpful or necessary? Doubtful.

We're adults. The vast majority of us can handle alternatively reading or ignoring threads that interest us or don't interest us. We can also handle dissent. If you must take some action, take it against those who are unable to abide by the rules; but don't kill a thread that is self-evidently helpful to at least a portion of your user base in conquering their fears about WLS, considering that in less than a week it has over 70 responses, the vast majority of which were positive and affirming.

100% agree!!! This thread Really helped me with my surgery 4 days ago!!! Thank please please put it back as it was

[sideeye 1,440]

The board shift is logical, the thread’s primarily about prayer rather than weight loss. Sure, the content of those prayers is around WLS concerns, but the focal point is faith. And then the content took a hard turn into proselytizing.

It didn’t make a ton of sense to have a “prayers, keep out” post at the top of a heavily-trafficked board otherwise focused directly on WLS. I’d wager that most of the people looking to interact with this post did, and will follow it to its new home.

[Russ D 115]

24 minutes ago, sideeye said:

The board shift is logical, the thread’s primarily about prayer rather than weight loss. Sure, the content of those prayers is around WLS concerns, but the focal point is faith. And then the content took a hard turn into proselytizing.

It didn’t make a ton of sense to have a “prayers, keep out” post at the top of a heavily-trafficked board otherwise focused directly on WLS. I’d wager that most of the people looking to interact with this post did, and will follow it to its new home.

1- You don't think it deals directly with weight loss surgery, and I'm sure that there are many people on these boards that agree with you. That's fine. What about the people who do think it directly affects them? Are their views and opinions not taken into account? Who gets to decide? Well, Alex, clearly, that's why I made my case to him.

2- Proselytism of a particular faith by definition targets those who are not practitioners of that faith. I think the title of the thread pretty much rules that out as a motivation for the thread's creation. Did someone message you trying to get you in here, to change your views? I haven't seen any of that posted here openly, but admittedly I scanned many of the posts that weren't direct requests for prayers, so maybe I missed something.

3- I agree, the title of the thread is provocative. Could have been better written. But obviously the OP's concerns were at least somewhat warranted.

4- The people who saw it will follow it. Who will see it now? Not newbies looking for support, and this message board (and thread, even) draws a lot of those people who are anxious and worried about WLS. The Lounge section of a message board is almost always going to be off-topic discussions; those types of people (myself included) would not go looking or posting in the Lounge for emotional support in having WLS, and it doens't make sense to do so...in fact, I'd argue that posting here in the Lounge looking for support and help for WLS is, in and of itself, off-topic for the Lounge! I'll reiterate my view that this thread was not off-topic. Not helpful for everyone, I'll agree with you there. But would you agree that it has been helpful for some people in their WLS struggles? What then is the harm in leaving it, if the discussion is civil?

Edits: Typos, wording

Edited August 26, 2018 by Russ D

[sideeye 1,440]

42 minutes ago, Russ D said:

1- You don't think it deals directly with weight loss surgery, and I'm sure that there are many people on these boards that agree with you. That's fine. What about the people who do think it directly affects them?

But it doesn't directly deal with weight loss surgery; it's a lens through which to manage emotions around weight loss surgery. Try looking at it this way: if I'd started up a thread that said I was going to start a meditation practice every morning, and asked for people to chip in with their own ideas of what we should meditate on to encourage our WLS goals, that could very well be a good pursuit. One morning we could focus on mindful eating, another we could try to do deep body scans, any another we could visualize a non-scale victory. All good things, all useful for the community who finds it worthwhile! But is that directly dealing with weight loss surgery? Not really; it's an interesting exercise to run alongside WLS, but it's not about any of the practical mechanics like the physical impacts of surgery, insurance, leave from work, etc. I wouldn't expect a meditation thread on the main WLS board for that reason.

42 minutes ago, Russ D said:

2- Proselytism of a particular faith by definition targets those who are not practitioners of that faith. I think the title of the thread pretty much rules that out as a motivation for the thread's creation.

Didn't start that way, developed that way. I wouldn't have jumped in here at all if it weren't for the emergence of us/them dynamics. Happy to live and let live, but scan the thread again and you'll see a progression that was picking up speed.

3- I agree, the title of the thread is provocative. Could have been better written. But obviously the OP's concerns were at least somewhat warranted.

It looks like a previous tiff got pulled into this thread; don't know the history so can't really address that. What I will say is that "witnessing" is a cultural litmus test that can garner very, very different reactions based on the participants in that interaction. What one person views as a low-key and essentially loving everyday communication can be received as a hugely inappropriate breach of etiquette by the other. And then things deteriorate from there.

I'd agree that the thread does appear to be helpful for some and is worth continuing, but I still think it's off-topic for the core WLS board. It's religious in nature, not surgical in nature, and it's also exclusive.

Edited August 26, 2018 by sideeye

[Russ D 115]

35 minutes ago, sideeye said:

But it doesn't directly deal with weight loss surgery; it's a lens through which to manage emotions around weight loss surgery. Try looking at it this way: if I'd started up a thread that said I was going to start a meditation practice every morning, and asked for people to chip in with their own ideas of what we should meditate on to encourage our WLS goals, that could very well be a good pursuit. One morning we could focus on mindful eating, another we could try to do deep body scans, any another we could visualize a non-scale victory. All good things, all useful for the community who finds it worthwhile! But is that directly dealing with weight loss surgery? Not really; it's an interesting exercise to run alongside WLS, but it's not about any of the practical mechanics like the physical impacts of surgery, insurance, leave from work, etc. I wouldn't expect a meditation thread on the main WLS board for that reason.

Didn't start that way, developed that way. I wouldn't have jumped in here at all if it weren't for the emergence of us/them dynamics. Happy to live and let live, but scan the thread again and you'll see a progression that was picking up speed.

It looks like a previous tiff got pulled into this thread; don't know the history so can't really address that. What I will say is that "witnessing" is a cultural litmus test that can garner very, very different reactions based on the participants in that interaction. What one person views as a low-key and essentially loving everyday communication can be received as a hugely inappropriate breach of etiquette by the other. And then things deteriorate from there.

I'd agree that the thread does appear to be helpful for some and is worth continuing, but I still think it's off-topic for the core WLS board. It's religious in nature, not surgical in nature, and it's also exclusive.

Trying to avoid the point of diminishing returns where we're haggling over comma placement. Mostly we just disagree. But, a couple of points.

-Meditation, mindfulness groups, I think those would be perfect for the main boards. Very helpful for some people in dealing with the struggles of WLS. Again: the Lounge section traditionally is for totally off-topic discussions that don't have a real benefit to the primary goal of a particular message board community. The primary goal of this message board community is to offer solutions and support to people thinking about, in the process of, or living life after weight loss surgery. Those topics you brought up are in line with that mission, in my opinion, and so is this thread.

-Proselytism...if a tree praises Jesus as the one and and only savior of mankind in a forest, is it proselytism? You clicked on the thread, you came in here. I don't think anyone sent you messages to get you to come in here. I'm not saying you're one, but some people find the very sight of others practicing their faith amongst themselves to be worthy of scorn and censorship (and yes, some people like that are Christians in regards to people of other faiths or non-faiths), and I think there is a person like that who has posted in here. That view is very intolerant of others. I don't berate people wearing yarmulkes or hijabs, and I think the vast majority of people would agree with me on that.

It's why I didn't respond to the post asking for pagan prayers. I don't believe that, I don't support it, but this is a thread for prayer, so who am I to tell them to post elsewhere? But for some people it's acceptable to go open-season at the sight of someone wearing a cross. I'm not trying to get into a War-on-Christians debate, but there is a growing double standard on it. If you've got examples of what you're talking about re: proselytism, please, share them, I might agree with you that that would amount to proselytism...if they weren't words from the preacher to the choir, when this thread is clearly for the choir.

-I don't see how it's exclusive. Everyone's welcome in here, as long as they're civil and respectful, just like the rest of the boards' topics. Like I said, not everyone is going to find it useful or helpful, but not everyone finds...carb cycling, for instance, to be useful and helpful. Doesn't mean that carb cycling is exclusive.

I've stated my case. I'll abide by the decisions that are made. But I think it's a shame that someone came in here with a disruptive mindset because they didn't like the type of people that were posting in here and got this thread kicked out of view when a great many people have found it helpful to them.

[sideeye 1,440]

I agree we’re in a zone of diminishing returns at this point - my first response here was because of a “well those atheists will get their comeuppance, when it’s too late” comment. Had nothing to do with weight loss, struck me as inappropriately exclusive and proselytizing. So I piped up. I do not bite people for saying they’ll pray for me despite my sincere atheism, and I understand the psychological lift involved for believers. But I do get leery of self-selecting groups who then start targeting people outside of their group for no good reason, and I will speak up then. Smugness is not a good look.

Much like a lot of other previously-privileged positions, Christianity is starting to feel the same restrictions as every other religious group. I get that people don’t like it, but it’s not a double standard, it’s the LOSS of the double standard that’s stinging. If you’ve been in a privileged position, losing that privilege can look like unfairness, while for those of us who never were in that privileged class it just looks like we’re all finally closer to a level field. If you’re used to saying whatever you want about your faith with the full nodding support of your in-group (or at least the silence of people outside your group) and suddenly you start getting pushback, no matter how gentle, that can feel like an attack. To many of us that respectful tension is the norm when talking about religion and always has been.

[The Preacher 161]

17 hours ago, apositivelife4me said:

I totally agree with you. The attitude on here ever since Mr Preacher appeared has been nothing short of bigotry. I am a gay person and I am sure he thinks that his god hates me. He said that he is a Baptist. They are bigots, homophobes and racist. This web site is not here to have god rammed down our throats. Mr Preacher has people thinking that they must go through him in order to pray to their god. Nothing could be further from the truth. Dont fall for his con. If you do not know what BIGOTRY means look it up. There is no place on this website for bigots.

It seems that you have a very big misconception about true Christians, first off it is not about what denomination of church one belongs to.

I don't know your beliefs, and it's really none of my business. But I would like to say, no matter who we are, or what we are, according to the Bible we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

I do not believe for one second that God hates you, nor do I hate you, God is not a respecter of persons. The Lord didn't pick or choose what type of people He would die for, it was for all humanity.

The Bible states in John 3:16 that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

The Bible says, that is not God's will that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

So you see, as a true Christian I believe there is forgiveness for all humanity, that means you and I as well.

No matter what you think about me, and even though I don't know you personally, I can truly say, God does not hate you and neither do I.

With Love!

The Preacher

Edited August 26, 2018 by The Preacher

[The Preacher 161]

I would like to clarify a few things, first I guess the reason I posted this trend in the gastric sleeve forum, is because it's the forum that I read the most, since I'm going to have the gastric sleeve surgery myself. It was never my intention to leave anyone out who has had or will have a different kind of surgery, I truly never even thought that people would take it that way.

Secondly, the reason I titled the post the way I did, was because I felt like I offended some on other post when I shared my belief in God, I thought that it would be obvious for people who read my other post and knew exactly my beliefs and what I stand for. I thought when they saw it was me that made the post they wouldn't open it and be offended by it.

Thirdly, all you had to do was just not enter the trend, and even if you did, when you read the very first post that I made, all you had to do was back out of it, myself if I start reading something and it doesn't go along with my beliefs I just stop reading it and get away from it, and that's as far as it goes.

Fourthly, I do not believe that anyone has to go through me to talk to God, all of his children have direct access to Him any time of day or night and can call upon him their selves.

I want to make one thing clear, it has never been, nor will it ever be the case that I am trying as one poster said to cram my beliefs down anyone's throat. My only true intentions was to help people in the best way I know how, I know not everyone believes the same way I do, and that is your right, and I don't condemn you for it.

But the one thing that I don't understand is, why anyone would try so hard to destroy something that brings comfort to another human being in a time of need, even if you don't believe the way I do.

May we all find understand toward one another.

The Preacher

[sideeye 1,440]

2 hours ago, The Preacher said:

But the one thing that I don't understand is, why anyone would try so hard to destroy something that brings comfort to another human being in a time of need, even if you don't believe the way I do.

A thread got moved to a more appropriate area: no destruction of content and very little effort expended. It just wasn't relevant to target a VSG-specific WLS board with a fully faith-based, exclusive (and by that I mean faith, not type of surgery) thread.

[The Preacher 161]

A thread got moved to a more appropriate area: no destruction of content and very little effort expended. It just wasn't relevant to target a VSG-specific WLS board with a fully faith-based, exclusive (and by that I mean faith, not type of surgery) thread.

God will be the final judge, whether you believe it or not.

Sent from my SM-J727VPP using BariatricPal mobile app

[Chrisb428 626]

Tomorrow at 6 am its time! Ready for all those prayers please!

[The Preacher 161]

Tomorrow at 6 am its time! Ready for all those prayers please!

I'll be praying for you!

My God keep His hand upon you.
The Preacher

Sent from my SM-J727VPP using BariatricPal mobile app

[sideeye 1,440]

3 hours ago, The Preacher said:

God will be the final judge, whether you believe it or not.

I would genuinely hope that any God is not concerning themselves with judging the rezoning of message board threads. Also, do you not get that saying something like that to an avowed atheist comes across as just weird and unfriendly? Or is this just the internet evangelist version of a southern "bless your heart"?

Edited August 27, 2018 by sideeye

[Chrisb428 626]

1 hour ago, The Preacher said:

I'll be praying for you!

My God keep His hand upon you.
The Preacher

Sent from my SM-J727VPP using BariatricPal mobile app

Thank you, much appreciated!

[kygirl68 58]

2 hours ago, sideeye said:

I would genuinely hope that any God is not concerning themselves with judging the rezoning of message board threads. Also, do you not get that saying something like that to an avowed atheist comes across as just weird and unfriendly? Or is this just the internet evangelist version of a southern "bless your heart"?

Just STOP antagonizing and trying to cause disruption...THAT IS ALL YOU ARE DOING AND THERE IS NO GOOD REASON FOR IT! Seriously...