I can't make a decision

[CashmereAndBones 36]

So this is my second post (and yes I am back from traveling now so I will promptly reply to each person (: ). I've been doing so much research and watching so many Youtube videos on VSG and I keep going back and forth on whether I should proceed with the surgery or not. I still have 4 more weigh-in's before I'm done with the 6 month insurance coverage thing so basically 4 months until I can proceed to make a date. Sometimes I feel like yes this is exactly what I need, something to restrict my stomach and make me full quickly so if I eat like a half of an apple I'll be full for hours and can survive off of that and then a small salad with Protein for dinner and that's it (plus Water, tea, coffee). Making healthy choices but extremely small "meals" (obviously after the first few post-op required stages). But then I think well I do want that BUT I am not 100% convinced. Why can't I just make healthier, smarter, portion controlled choices now with the help of a dietitian and personal trainer so I don't have to undergo VSG? Technically you're not getting fat removed but shrinking your stomach to make it so you can't eat a lot but you're still following an extremely restricted diet, why not just do the same diet without the surgery? Is Portion Control too hard? Can anyone tell me why they got the surgery rather than just eating what they would have with the VSG but not actually getting it surgically done? I keep going back and forth because part of me like I previously said definitely can benefit from a difficult, but doable lifestyle change but another part of me thinks why can't I just do this on my own? What's stopping me from eating now what I would if I were post-op? I'm glad I still have time to decide but I'm just so confused right now.

Now the second part I just want to say (STOP READING IF YOU GET TRIGGERED EASILY) there is your disclaimer. I want to better myself, make changes and eat healthy. I just don't want a lot of scars, loose skin scars (if I need body contouring) and I want to be able to have that once in a blue moon treat myself if it's a girls night out or birthday or vacation, etc. I don't want to fall into a depression because of fomo (fear of missing out), I'm not sure if I'm ready to give up sparkling water, sugar (in strict moderation, but I hate sugar free since it's just "sugar" but chemically made so it's not real sugar) and especially the whole drinking and eating rule.

If you have any feedback or thoughts that would be much appreciated, thank you everyone and I'm happy to be back (:

xo,

CashmereAndBones

[Biddy zz 🏳️🌈 1,003]

Hey Cashmere&bones

A few things spring to mind. You have had all your life to moderate your own portion sizes. How is that going for ya?! Of course you could start this tomorrow. Book in for the surgery, but go it alone and if in 6 months you are smashing it, then don’t have the surgery... Is that a plan that might work?

It sounds easy, but for so many of us, the surgery provides that critical extra tool that means we CAN do Portion Control. By the way, I think we have all thought ‘I reckon I can just do it by myself’ at some point - but mostly we can’t or don’t.

Half an apple doesn’t keep me full - it is starting meals with Protein that makes all the difference. I drink sparkling Water every day. I don’t have to do the ‘no drinking near eating’ rule. We all vary quite a bit! And you will find out exactly how you work post surgery - and make it all your own. I NEVER feel like I am missing out, now. I have worked out how to eat that works. I eat out in groups, in cafes, at parties. But I eat an entirely new set of foods! And I am happy with it!! Many of us have occasional treats. Some have a plan allowing 75 calories of treats a day, and you can ‘save them up’ for an event. I do a bit of this. Really, the eating I do now, at goal and maintaining, doesn’t look at all odd compared to my friends...

One more thing. In your stats under your username, you say you are 6 foot tall, and your goal weight is 125lbs. This is really really low - bmi of 17 and out of the healthy range - is that really your goal??

[Matt Z 4,139]

@CashmereAndBones
The first thing I noticed is your goal... From your starting weight, that goal isn't very realistic with the Sleeve. Check this site, it has calculators to show you what you can realistically expect for weight loss for each surgery type.
For your starting weight of 325, for a Female that's 6 foot tall, it's reported that 80% of patients will reach 249 in 18 months, 50% reach 226 and only 20% reach 203.

https://www.obesitycoverage.com/weight-loss-surgeries/gastric-sleeve/gastric-sleeves-how-much-weight-will-i-lose

The Bypass has perspective losses listed for your weight/height as 80% reach 231 in 18 months, 50% reach 210, 20% reach 189.
https://www.obesitycoverage.com/weight-loss-surgeries/gastric-bypass/how-much-can-i-expect-to-lose

These are averages and generalizations, can you lose 200 lbs with the Sleeve, maybe, but it's going to be a lot of very hard work and some serious dedication and commitment.

Can you lose the weight on your own? You totally can! Search for "Obese to Beast" on YouTube. This kid is great, he dropped from 370 down to like 180 with nothing but diet and exercise. It is possible, but you are going to have to really fight the hunger sensation to do so.

I initially got the band back in 2011, having hit 370 lbs at 5 foot 9, things were just on the cusp of getting out of control. People get the surgery because, there is a point where just reducing your intake and exercising isn't quite enough to make the changes needed to stop the snowball effect. I didn't want the bypass back then because I didn't want any permanent changes to be made. In hindsight that's the stupidest thing I've ever thought. I didn't want to make a change that would cause permanent changes. Well, that's exactly what happened. I dropped 70ish with the band, and then it started to come back. Because, I didn't make permanent changes.

This past March I finally had my band removed and converted over to the bypass. I'm kicking myself for not doing the bypass in 2011. I've lost 7 years that would have been so much better if I only wasn't afraid of those changes.

Whatever you do decide to do, don't lose sight of the fact that these changes *NEED* to be permanent, otherwise you'll find yourself right back at the start wondering what you did wrong. If you don't make life long habit changes... then nothing will actually change.

[looly 361]

I've lost 63lbs in the past by using diet and exercise...and put it all back on again...several times.

My own body stymied me every time. I used to feel guilty and weak-willed about this, until my surgeon explained to me that my body thought I was in a famine, so my metabolism dropped and I produced more hunger hormones. If you think you can beat a mechanism like that - go ahead and try.

I took the plunge and had a VSG, because I reckoned that if I did what I'd always done, I'd get what I'd always got.

And I'd had enough of that.

[GreenTealael 25,359]

I hear that yo yo dieting is straining on the heart and other major organs (can someone confirm, I've never done it). I'd would rather succeed the first time than fail five times just to end up back at the same conclusion two years later that I need surgical help, if you take a look at my post, you can absolutely have a life, everything in moderation. I don't go off the rails and eat whatever. I work everything into my plan with my NUT especially vacation and special occasion foods. I don't eat sugars that are not naturally occurring in foods and those I use sparingly, I use stevia if I must have added sweetness the other sugar alcohols if nothing else is available. You are going to still have to practice Portion Control and restraint after the procedure. Restriction provided through it does not last forever. What this procedure will do is give you a running start so you can exercise, you can learn to eat less, you can make better choices. Not everyone does and that's why not everyone has the success they hope. In the end it is still all on you.

VSG2017 HW 249 SW 238 CW 169

[TakingABreak 2,733]

First of all... I've already responded to all to your concerns on your first post about your fears.

In your case, I wouldn't recommend surgery. You aren't ready, nor near ready for the commitment to change. I'd try the Portion Control route first. I do wish you luck. When you hit your rock bottom, like most people on here do, you won't be worried about giving up the things you've listed in your post. And I mean this with the upmost respect, because you have to be *ready* to take this journey. I don't believe you are.

[CashmereAndBones 36]

8 hours ago, Biddy zz said:

Hey Cashmere&bones

A few things spring to mind. You have had all your life to moderate your own portion sizes. How is that going for ya?! Of course you could start this tomorrow. Book in for the surgery, but go it alone and if in 6 months you are smashing it, then don’t have the surgery... Is that a plan that might work?

It sounds easy, but for so many of us, the surgery provides that critical extra tool that means we CAN do Portion Control. By the way, I think we have all thought ‘I reckon I can just do it by myself’ at some point - but mostly we can’t or don’t.

Half an apple doesn’t keep me full - it is starting meals with Protein that makes all the difference. I drink sparkling Water every day. I don’t have to do the ‘no drinking near eating’ rule. We all vary quite a bit! And you will find out exactly how you work post surgery - and make it all your own. I NEVER feel like I am missing out, now. I have worked out how to eat that works. I eat out in groups, in cafes, at parties. But I eat an entirely new set of foods! And I am happy with it!! Many of us have occasional treats. Some have a plan allowing 75 calories of treats a day, and you can ‘save them up’ for an event. I do a bit of this. Really, the eating I do now, at goal and maintaining, doesn’t look at all odd compared to my friends...

One more thing. In your stats under your username, you say you are 6 foot tall, and your goal weight is 125lbs. This is really really low - bmi of 17 and out of the healthy range - is that really your goal??

Hey!

Yes welp I've never stuck to a healthy, portion-controlled lifestyle because of many difficulties I've had in life. It's another excuse and I'm so sick of making excuses for myself. Your advice seems to not be the norm as most people said not to drink sparkling Water and at least wait 30 mins post eating to drink something, how has this effected your weight loss by doing the opposite? And yes I want to be 125-130, I want to get into modeling. Everyone tells me how gorgeous I am and that if I just lost the weight I could model (NOT BRAGGING) but I remember one time a woman in a nail salon came up to me and told me how gorgeous I was and another time I was waiting for my friend's dad to pick him up from a diner and we were taking selfies outside and this woman told me what a beautiful face I had. So yeah 125 has always been my goal. I've actually been there before but I gained so much weight from undisclosed reasons, life sometimes just hits you hard! Thank you again for the advice (:

[CashmereAndBones 36]

6 hours ago, Matt Z said:

@CashmereAndBones
The first thing I noticed is your goal... From your starting weight, that goal isn't very realistic with the Sleeve. Check this site, it has calculators to show you what you can realistically expect for weight loss for each surgery type.
For your starting weight of 325, for a Female that's 6 foot tall, it's reported that 80% of patients will reach 249 in 18 months, 50% reach 226 and only 20% reach 203.

https://www.obesitycoverage.com/weight-loss-surgeries/gastric-sleeve/gastric-sleeves-how-much-weight-will-i-lose

The Bypass has perspective losses listed for your weight/height as 80% reach 231 in 18 months, 50% reach 210, 20% reach 189.
https://www.obesitycoverage.com/weight-loss-surgeries/gastric-bypass/how-much-can-i-expect-to-lose

These are averages and generalizations, can you lose 200 lbs with the Sleeve, maybe, but it's going to be a lot of very hard work and some serious dedication and commitment.

Can you lose the weight on your own? You totally can! Search for "Obese to Beast" on YouTube. This kid is great, he dropped from 370 down to like 180 with nothing but diet and exercise. It is possible, but you are going to have to really fight the hunger sensation to do so.

I initially got the band back in 2011, having hit 370 lbs at 5 foot 9, things were just on the cusp of getting out of control. People get the surgery because, there is a point where just reducing your intake and exercising isn't quite enough to make the changes needed to stop the snowball effect. I didn't want the bypass back then because I didn't want any permanent changes to be made. In hindsight that's the stupidest thing I've ever thought. I didn't want to make a change that would cause permanent changes. Well, that's exactly what happened. I dropped 70ish with the band, and then it started to come back. Because, I didn't make permanent changes.

This past March I finally had my band removed and converted over to the bypass. I'm kicking myself for not doing the bypass in 2011. I've lost 7 years that would have been so much better if I only wasn't afraid of those changes.

Whatever you do decide to do, don't lose sight of the fact that these changes *NEED* to be permanent, otherwise you'll find yourself right back at the start wondering what you did wrong. If you don't make life long habit changes... then nothing will actually change.

I LOVE Obese to Beast, he's so sweet and funny! I watch him along with a few other people who lost the weight on their own. Thank you for putting all the projected weight loss expectancies and for your advice and time. I liked reading a little of your own backstory you put in the response as well! Best of luck with everything and I hope all is going well for you (:

[CashmereAndBones 36]

4 hours ago, looly said:

I've lost 63lbs in the past by using diet and exercise...and put it all back on again...several times.

My own body stymied me every time. I used to feel guilty and weak-willed about this, until my surgeon explained to me that my body thought I was in a famine, so my metabolism dropped and I produced more hunger hormones. If you think you can beat a mechanism like that - go ahead and try.

I took the plunge and had a VSG, because I reckoned that if I did what I'd always done, I'd get what I'd always got.

And I'd had enough of that.

I'm going to try for the next 4 months, well see where that takes me and from there I can make a decision. Thank you for your response and best on the rest of your journey!

[CashmereAndBones 36]

4 hours ago, Tealael said:

I hear that yo yo dieting is straining on the heart and other major organs (can someone confirm, I've never done it). I'd would rather succeed the first time than fail five times just to end up back at the same conclusion two years later that I need surgical help, if you take a look at my post, you can absolutely have a life, everything in moderation. I don't go off the rails and eat whatever. I work everything into my plan with my NUT especially vacation and special occasion foods. I don't eat sugars that are not naturally occurring in foods and those I use sparingly, I use stevia if I must have added sweetness the other sugar alcohols if nothing else is available. You are going to still have to practice Portion Control and restraint after the procedure. Restriction provided through it does not last forever. What this procedure will do is give you a running start so you can exercise, you can learn to eat less, you can make better choices. Not everyone does and that's why not everyone has the success they hope. In the end it is still all on you.

VSG2017 HW 249 SW 238 CW 169

I will definitely check out your posts, thank you for all of your advice (: very sweet of you to take your time to reply. Lots of things to consider but for now I'm still going to proceed with the pre-op work and in four months I can make my decision from there. Best of luck to you!

[CashmereAndBones 36]

4 hours ago, AshAsh1 said:

First of all... I've already responded to all to your concerns on your first post about your fears.

In your case, I wouldn't recommend surgery. You aren't ready, nor near ready for the commitment to change. I'd try the Portion Control route first. I do wish you luck. When you hit your rock bottom, like most people on here do, you won't be worried about giving up the things you've listed in your post. And I mean this with the upmost respect, because you have to be *ready* to take this journey. I don't believe you are.

Hi AshAsh1, yes I saw you posted to my first post and I did make a little apology on there as to why I hadn't responded. You're a bit negative to just flat out say you wouldn't recommend surgery. Like I said I still have four months before I even have to set a date and make a decision so I'm very new to this and there are a lot of questions, fears and things I want to ask and have to come to terms with but that shouldn't be your determining factor for me as I'm still quite a ways away from making a decision so I'm exploring all my options and getting every bit of information I can from everyone on here. Maybe I'm not ready right now but that why I signed up on this website, to interact with users and get vital information so they can help guide me and give me the resources I need to make a big life changing decision and who knows. Maybe in time I will come to terms that what I want vs what I need will out weigh itself and I'll make that decision to get the surgery, maybe not, who knows but what I do know is like Missouri-Lee said on my other post is I need to "read, read, read and ask, ask, ask". Best to you and good luck with the rest of your journey (:

[nourishing heather 36]

Have you looked at any of the numerous studies on outcomes, both short and long term, for surgical weight loss versus diet/lifestyle changes? Overall, less than 10% of people who set out to lose 60-80% of their body weight will succeed with diet/lifestyle changes. With surgery 80% of people lose 60-80% of their bodyweight.

5 years later only 20% of the LESS THAN 10% who succeeded with diet/lifestyle changes are maintaining. With surgery, it's about 80% of the 80%.

Gastric sleeve does a lot more than reduce stomach by 80-85%. The portion of the stomach that produces the hunger hormone gherlin is removed. As people suffering from obesity, our bodies because immune to leptin, a hormone our body makes that aides in appetite suppresion and signals satiety. After surgery, this immunity is no longer present. Gastric sleeve surgery is a reset for your body is so many ways. I think you need to better under the complexity of the surgery and how it truly affects bodies. There are many studies showing how the neuromapping in our brains actually changes following bariatric surgery. Obesity is a disease process and willpower alone is rarely the cure. Best wishes to you!

My Blog: www.nourishingheather.com

HW: 325

CW: 314

Surgery Date: 8/1/18

GW: 160

[TakingABreak 2,733]

5 minutes ago, CashmereAndBones said:

Hi AshAsh1, yes I saw you posted to my first post and I did make a little apology on there as to why I hadn't responded. You're a bit negative to just flat out say you wouldn't recommend surgery. Like I said I still have four months before I even have to set a date and make a decision so I'm very new to this and there are a lot of questions, fears and things I want to ask and have to come to terms with but that shouldn't be your determining factor for me as I'm still quite a ways away from making a decision so I'm exploring all my options and getting every bit of information I can from everyone on here. Maybe I'm not ready right now but that why I signed up on this website, to interact with users and get vital information so they can help guide me and give me the resources I need to make a big life changing decision and who knows. Maybe in time I will come to terms that what I want vs what I need will out weigh itself and I'll make that decision to get the surgery, maybe not, who knows but what I do know is like Missouri-Lee said on my other post is I need to "read, read, read and ask, ask, ask". Best to you and good luck with the rest of your journey (:

I'm not negative, I'm experienced to say that I can see the warning signs of someone who may not be ready. I hope you do gain as much knowledge and info as possible to make the right decision. But as other poster's have pointed out, its a life long commitment. You have to be willing to make the most of it. It's 80% mind and 20% body. You can easily cheat yourself out of being successful, its not fool proof. I'd rather see you make this decision, when you are ready, and will make the most of this journey. I recommend surgery to nearly everyone who is sure they are ready to make a change. I'm not saying you won't get there, but your concerns are concerning.

[CashmereAndBones 36]

1 minute ago, AshAsh1 said:

I'm not negative, I'm experienced to say that I can see the warning signs of someone who may not be ready. I hope you do gain as much knowledge and info as possible to make the right decision. But as other poster's have pointed out, its a life long commitment. You have to be willing to make the most of it. It's 80% mind and 20% body. You can easily cheat yourself out of being successful, its not fool proof. I'd rather see you make this decision, when you are ready, and will make the most of this journey. I recommend surgery to nearly everyone who is sure they are ready to make a change. I'm not saying you won't get there, but your concerns are concerning.

Hello! Thank you for a follow up. I do realize it is a life long commitment which is why I want to absorb everything I can before making a decision. Like I said I still have four months before I'm even allowed to set a date (if I choose to do so). I understand it's not fool proof and the questions I ask might be concerning but these are just things I want to know because I like to see how people at all different stages of post-op are doing and what they have and haven't incorporated back into their lives. Everyone does their journey differently so I'm trying to see all different prospectives and outcomes. I'm not asking these because I'm planning on getting the surgery and immediately going back to simple Syrup lattes, fast food chains, pastries, etc. but I'm asking because I want to know if people dabble in them and what their outcomes have been. One person said they had snacked on some sweets and it was on a vacation and they hadn't lost as much that week as others but it's good to know I'm not going to have to be a robot after surgery with absolutely no leeway on anything. I've also had not only BED but anorexia at one point when I was at my skinniest and I was afraid that going on suck restrictions for the rest of my life might bring back those tendencies. But I see there are mixed reviews, some people stick hard core to the post-op lifestyle and others are a little more free with it. Thank you again for another insightful post AshAsh1 (: I hope you are doing well! If you have any other advice, have you gone on vacation and wanted something and took a few bites of like a cake? Have you experienced FOMO? How did you deal with all of this? And anything else you'd like to add would be great! All the best.

[CashmereAndBones 36]

13 minutes ago, nourishing heather said:

Have you looked at any of the numerous studies on outcomes, both short and long term, for surgical weight loss versus diet/lifestyle changes? Overall, less than 10% of people who set out to lose 60-80% of their body weight will succeed with diet/lifestyle changes. With surgery 80% of people lose 60-80% of their bodyweight.

5 years later only 20% of the LESS THAN 10% who succeeded with diet/lifestyle changes are maintaining. With surgery, it's about 80% of the 80%.

Gastric sleeve does a lot more than reduce stomach by 80-85%. The portion of the stomach that produces the hunger hormone gherlin is removed. As people suffering from obesity, our bodies because immune to leptin, a hormone our body makes that aides in appetite suppresion and signals satiety. After surgery, this immunity is no longer present. Gastric sleeve surgery is a reset for your body is so many ways. I think you need to better under the complexity of the surgery and how it truly affects bodies. There are many studies showing how the neuromapping in our brains actually changes following bariatric surgery. Obesity is a disease process and willpower alone is rarely the cure. Best wishes to you!

My Blog: www.nourishingheather.com

HW: 325

CW: 314

Surgery Date: 8/1/18

GW: 160

Thank you for the response, I actually am reading your blog now! And thank you for all the statistics. Lots to think about. I hope your surgery is a well and good one for you and I wish you so much luck as you are about to start a new lifestyle journey! Best of luck!