Do we really forgive if we can't forget?

[ELENATION 0]

Ok so heres my deal..

When I was in kindergarden, I was molested by three of my male classmates during nap time. The teacher caught them and all of us were taken to the principal's office. Now I was..heck AM a good kid, and the principals office terrified me, and my teacher dragged me in there by my arm, I can still remember her fingernails diggin in my skin. Well the principal told all of us how bsd we were and how disappointed our parents would be..and then the big thing..this would go on your permenant record..this was absolutely terrifying to me..I sat there being lectured for something that was not my fault. Well I never spoke to my parents about this. I went through most of my life with this horrible thing in me. When my younger sister went to kindergarden and had the same teacher I begged my mom to get her out of there, when she asked why, I couldnt tell her, because I was too ashamed. My mom always told me the whole nine yards about if someone touchs you tell her etc etc, yet my principal tolf me it was my fault..I finally told my mom last year. She was so upset that it had been hidden.

of the three boys, i graduated with one of them. He was in the prom court, star of the basketball team and one of the most popular kids in school.

For years, I blocked out this incident, seriously from like 2nd-6th grade or so, but I always hated this boy, yet didnt know why, until I found my old kindergarden yearbook, and saw thier pictures and it came back to me. The thing is, even though now I remember the incident, I dont hate him any more. I realize that they probally didnt know what they were doing or whatever. I have forgiven them of the deed, but I never want to forget it.

On a side note, I believe I am unable to forgive the teacher. Whenever I see her my face twists into this horrible scowl..not a good look. She on the other hand has no idea why Im mad. The principal was dismissed several years ago for misconduct

Now I know what people say about childhood memories, and how often they are made up, but this really happened to me, and according to my therapists, it explains why for years after I wet my pants..anyways

the point is, that while some might believe it would be easier to forgive if you forget, this was not the case for me, because only when I remembered could I remember to forgive, as much as I can

Firstly, I'm so sorry for what happened to you and I can completely understand how you have felt all these years and how you feel now, I agree with you, I have similar issues, it's hard for me to forgive in certain cases and it seems almost impossible to forget... and do I even want to forget...

I have heard over and over that when we don't forgive we are only hurting ourselves and the person who hurt us is going around like nothing...just like your teacher and the principal and therefore we should forgive for our own benefit...and this is beside religious belief... but that it's simply healthy for ourselves to forgive, so I try, but boy is it hard!

That teacher was an irresponsible woman to say the least, believe me, I could say a lot more about her, so was the principal, and I think they did know what they were doing... just took the easy way out of it... the boys...well, maybe they didn't know to a certain extent... but certain actions that people do against us do hurt so much and sometimes the follow us the rest of our lives... I'm really sorry.:cry

[Chelle B 0]

yeah, interesting....

you said If the person has wronged me, and wants to make it right, they will reach out - we can talk and move on

Isn't that forgiving anyway... at least somewhat.. oh gee, this is complicated...

Yeah it's complicated to me too. I've always believed that only God has the power to forgive, but that's just my thought. I will generally do whatever it takes to get past a bad situation. I just don't see any power in my 'forgiving' someone else when I have so many faults of my own.

[kagoscuba 0]

I was taught, in my Methodist upbringing, that God does not consider you to have forgiven someone until you forget the act you are forgiving. That's one of the reasons why I'm a Unitarian now. Forgetting a transgression is repression of thought. Repression of thought is stagnation of the spirit. Too many rules made up by man. There is a God, and he will judge us all on how we lived our lives and affected those around us. He's not going to give a rats-a$$ what religion you were, if you believed in Jesus, a cow, a fat guy, gefilte fish, or some guy who had a lot of sand in his hair. Religion is not the truth - God is.

[travelgirl 3]

The bible teaches that we will be held accountable for our sins. Now, that isn't to say we aren't forgiven for them if we repent and ask for forgiveness, but it DOES NOT teach that forgiveness = no accountability. We must forgive, and then have faith that God is just (and He is) and that HE will then take on the job of punishing them.

Look at it this way. You have 2 children and they have a fight, or whatever, and they do horrible things to each other. One of them when it's all over is sorry that it happened and the other is not. Should your repentent child be the one that decides the punishment for their sibling? No. That's just not the way it works. You, as the parent will punish the one who is not sorry to a greater degree. Right?

Our Heavenly Father is the one who ultimately has the solitary right to vengeance. Give THAT to him, and find peace.

[ELENATION 0]

The bible teaches that we will be held accountable for our sins. Now, that isn't to say we aren't forgiven for them if we repent and ask for forgiveness, but it DOES NOT teach that forgiveness = no accountability. We must forgive, and then have faith that God is just (and He is) and that HE will then take on the job of punishing them.

Look at it this way. You have 2 children and they have a fight, or whatever, and they do horrible things to each other. One of them when it's all over is sorry that it happened and the other is not. Should your repentent child be the one that decides the punishment for their sibling? No. That's just not the way it works. You, as the parent will punish the one who is not sorry to a greater degree. Right?

Our Heavenly Father is the one who ultimately has the solitary right to vengeance. Give THAT to him, and find peace.

Amen to that!

[kagoscuba 0]

"Our Heavenly Father is the one who ultimately has the solitary right to vengeance. Give THAT to him, and find peace."

If that were truly adhered to, then there would be no Christians. They'd all be dead and buried. That's why, in only my maybe silly opinion, that statement is a crock.

A couple of issues there. A vengeful God. Spooky themes...scary language...designed to keep people in check. Doing so would actually be a sin...wrath. Being judged is not the same as having vengeance thrust upon you. It is also not his solitary right...ask Sampson or Joshua or myriad of others I just happen to be forgetting right now.

Damned or not, I will die with a clear mind is my view. That's just my eastern philosophy edging in there.

[travelgirl 3]

If that were truly adhered to, then there would be no Christians. They'd all be dead and buried.

How so? We are given free will and the chance to repent. How does that make me dead and buried?

[nina874 48]

I was taught, in my Methodist upbringing, that God does not consider you to have forgiven someone until you forget the act you are forgiving. That's one of the reasons why I'm a Unitarian now. Forgetting a transgression is repression of thought. Repression of thought is stagnation of the spirit. Too many rules made up by man. There is a God, and he will judge us all on how we lived our lives and affected those around us. He's not going to give a rats-a$$ what religion you were, if you believed in Jesus, a cow, a fat guy, gefilte fish, or some guy who had a lot of sand in his hair. Religion is not the truth - God is.

Well said!!! Can't really add anything to that :clap2::clap2::clap2:

[gadgetlady 4]

Elena, we had a great sermon on Saturday that delved into forgiveness. If you have the time, I strongly suggest listening. Go to ROCKHARBOR and at the top right corner there's an "audio" link. Just click on the "play" button. The title is 11/11: Tear Down this Wall, Mr. Gorbachev by Mike Erre (FYI, he doesn't mention the Berlin Wall or anything along those lines in the sermon -- it's just the title).

[ELENATION 0]

Elena, we had a great sermon on Saturday that delved into forgiveness. If you have the time, I strongly suggest listening. Go to ROCKHARBOR and at the top right corner there's an "audio" link. Just click on the "play" button. The title is 11/11: Tear Down this Wall, Mr. Gorbachev by Mike Erre (FYI, he doesn't mention the Berlin Wall or anything along those lines in the sermon -- it's just the title).

WOW, the title sure is catching.... it came from my favorite president EVER!

THank you so much, I will definitely listen to it...I have to do it from home since we don't have audio here at work, even if I wanted to do it during my lunch hour....

Thank you much!

Elena:clap2:

[kagoscuba 0]

"How so? We are given free will and the chance to repent. How does that make me dead and buried?"

You cannot intentionally do an act with the intent to ask for forgiveness or the ability to repent. That's like trying to coerce God. Forgiving and "turning the other cheek" in a purely hardcore Christian way would be akin to inviting every other society not willing to follow social norms to dominate and kill Christians (it would happen...social Darwinism expects it).

Pure forgiveness would be like having 9/11 happen and we do nothing about it in Afghanistan. No war, no tirades, just a dialogue of understanding. I would prefer the dialogue of MIRV (Multiple Independent Re-Entry Vehicle).

[travelgirl 3]

"How so? We are given free will and the chance to repent. How does that make me dead and buried?"

You cannot intentionally do an act with the intent to ask for forgiveness or the ability to repent.

Well, that's not what I said, now, is it? We don't MEAN to sin, but we're human and humans are sinners by nature. There is no such thing as a sinless human being.

I have a Catholic friend that thinks that she can do whatever she wants all week, because she'll go to confession and be absolved of her sins, only to go and do it again the next week. I don't believe that is true repentence, and it disturbs me deeply that she's missing the point.

[kagoscuba 0]

"Well, that's not what I said, now, is it? We don't MEAN to sin, but we're human and humans are sinners by nature. There is no such thing as a sinless human being. "

Good points, but my original intent was to point out that waiting on God to judge those who trespass against you and forgiving those without reaction on your part is going to lead to your eventual demise. The meek may inherit the earth, but meanwhile, the strong are making a pretty good living. (knowing that is short-sighted as infinity is longer than a possible 120 years).

Oh, and every sin I've ever done has been done with my full knowledge and consent. It doesn't make me proud that I did them, but as you said, we are just human after all.

[travelgirl 3]

The bible also does NOT teach that there will be no justice on earth, either. We aren't to just sit on our laurels and watch something like 9/11 happen and then not react.

In Romans 13, which I won't quote here, you can read it for yourself, it makes reference to rulers bearing the sword in servitude to God.

Ok, after this, I will respectfully bow out of this discussion on this particular thread because it's off topic. But I will say it's nice to be able to have a discussion like this without bashing one another, and for that I thank you!

:focus:

[gadgetlady 4]

WOW, the title sure is catching.... it came from my favorite president EVER!

Yeah, me too. When I saw the title I was hoping to hear some audio clips or something, but he didn't even mention it. Nevertheless, get through the first few minutes and it'll all start to pull together. It's a great teaching on reconciliation.