Do we really forgive if we can't forget?

[ELENATION 0]

Forgive.... I am more of a believer in Karma myself, I truely believe in what goes around.

That said if anyone ever harmed one of my children.....could I forgive a child molester....nope not a chance.

I can forgive hurt that is inflicted on me far more easily than I can hurt that is inflicted on someone that I love, my rage is always greater when I am protecting my loved ones.

I forgive my mother for being an alchoholic, I understand what lead her down that path and feel a great deal of sadness and compassion whenever I think of her, but I will never forget that she was one...how could I ???

I think that you can remember without holding a grudge, but still learn from the lesson.

Other times it is almost a duty NOT to forget, if the person concerned has no remorse and will happily commit the same offense again and again, then it is our duty to protect others from them. It depends on the severity, what exactly they did to need forgivness for.

I have noticed that people who are unpleasant in whatever way, eventually will come up against a situation more unpleasant than them, and then the karmic balance is restored, sometimes karma needs a gentle prod but that is normally all it takes.

Mostly I just cut out people that do unforgivable things, I am more of a 'if the family dog bites me it goes to the pound so it can never threaten my kids' kind of person.

Nina x

I hear you.... the part about someone hurting me or my children is so important to me, if they hurt my children, I pretty much lose it.... I admire those that can forgive even the worst offenses, like killing your child...like that lady that I mentioned that was in Oprah... bless her heart..

[sweethot143 2]

so as another "Christian" point of view, here is mine, and I haven't read the replies so forgive me if I repeat, and then please forget. J/K

So i recently taught a lesson at church on this very subject. And I will only give you this opinion because you are a Christian too, otherwise I wouldn't.

In the Bible it says that if we do not forgive then we are the one with the greater sin. It says that we will not be forgiven if we cannot forgive.

As far as forgiving and forgetting, I think that to be realistic, if the action against you was very very deep and painful, say your spouse cheating on you, or someone tries to kill you, then no, you will not forget. how ever, forgetting can mean that when you have chosen to forgive that person, really forgive them, you are agreeing that you will never bring the wrong up again, not use it against them and not try to get revenge in any way. You have forgotten that action against you. Forgiveness is not an easy task, but it is a necessary one for our salvation and sometimes it requires much prayer.

I know that for a while I held a lot of resentment towards a particular person, and didn't think I should forgive until they apologized. After teaching this lesson I realized I was the one in the greater wrong here and decided to let it all go, tell them that I forgive them. After all it was my life that was being destroyed, I was the one walking around mad all the time, seething, plotting ect. They were waltzing around like nothing ever happened, I only punished myself with that attitude.

Is your pride worth your peace? Mine was not.

And honestly now 6 or 7 mo. later, I can't even remember all those details that were so important to me then. So, I am actually beginning to forget!

[ELENATION 0]

so as another "Christian" point of view, here is mine, and I haven't read the replies so forgive me if I repeat, and then please forget. J/K

So i recently taught a lesson at church on this very subject. And I will only give you this opinion because you are a Christian too, otherwise I wouldn't.

In the Bible it says that if we do not forgive then we are the one with the greater sin. It says that we will not be forgiven if we cannot forgive.

As far as forgiving and forgetting, I think that to be realistic, if the action against you was very very deep and painful, say your spouse cheating on you, or someone tries to kill you, then no, you will not forget. how ever, forgetting can mean that when you have chosen to forgive that person, really forgive them, you are agreeing that you will never bring the wrong up again, not use it against them and not try to get revenge in any way. You have forgotten that action against you. Forgiveness is not an easy task, but it is a necessary one for our salvation and sometimes it requires much prayer.

I know that for a while I held a lot of resentment towards a particular person, and didn't think I should forgive until they apologized. After teaching this lesson I realized I was the one in the greater wrong here and decided to let it all go, tell them that I forgive them. After all it was my life that was being destroyed, I was the one walking around mad all the time, seething, plotting ect. They were waltzing around like nothing ever happened, I only punished myself with that attitude.

Is your pride worth your peace? Mine was not.

And honestly now 6 or 7 mo. later, I can't even remember all those details that were so important to me then. So, I am actually beginning to forget!

Very true.... and I feel in my heart that I want to be able to forgive and let it go completely, but if I still remember it, I say to myself that I probably didn't "really" forgive, but as time goes by I realize that those that I have forgiven I don't really remember much either, so maybe I'm beginning to forget.... it's just a process and it just doesn't happen over night... I don't feel the desire of being close to those people again or be their close friend, but I don't want revenge, I don't wish them any harm, and I start to feel indiference... which leads to forgetting.... but aren't we supposed to love everyone as well? as Christians? so forgiving and letting go, but at the same time not making an effort to love that person is not exactly Christ like....right?

You are so right, it's not an easy task.... and I don't feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be regarding this issue... I don't see it a black and white... it's complicated for me, I wish it wasn't... thank you much, very nice everything you said.

Elena

[anonemouse 1]

One thing I though of, and I head about this back when that Amish school shooting took place, is that the Amish believe in complete forgiveness, to the point that if you try to have someone punished for a crime, you haven't forgiven them. Personally, I think that's going too far, in the direction of "everything must be forgiven." The case that I heard of was where an Amish girl was raped and molested as a child by two of her brothers. She wanted to see them punished by the law, as they should have been, IMO. Instead, she was the one shunned by the Amish community, after one of the brothers was convicted and jailed, because they felt that she should forgive her rapists and live beside them in harmony.

[Wheetsin 714]

One thing I though of, and I head about this back when that Amish school shooting took place, is that the Amish believe in complete forgiveness, to the point that if you try to have someone punished for a crime, you haven't forgiven them. Personally, I think that's going too far, in the direction of "everything must be forgiven." The case that I heard of was where an Amish girl was raped and molested as a child by two of her brothers. She wanted to see them punished by the law, as they should have been, IMO. Instead, she was the one shunned by the Amish community, after one of the brothers was convicted and jailed, because they felt that she should forgive her rapists and live beside them in harmony.

To me, that's hypocritical. They're shunning the girl for prosecuting the brothers (or because whomever did it), which is its own form of punishment. They're basically punishing her for punishing them.

I don't know much about Amish life, but I'm assuming their belief is that the intrinsic punishment is punishment enough. That's basically advocating for lawless rule. We all know what that's called. :faint:

[anonemouse 1]

To me, that's hypocritical. They're shunning the girl for prosecuting the brothers (or because whomever did it), which is its own form of punishment. They're basically punishing her for punishing them.

I don't know much about Amish life, but I'm assuming their belief is that the intrinsic punishment is punishment enough. That's basically advocating for lawless rule. We all know what that's called. :faint:

Exactly. It makes no sense to me. I can understand forgiveness to a point, but I think that cases like that far surpass "forgiveness" and enter into stupidity.

[sweethot143 2]

Very true.... and I feel in my heart that I want to be able to forgive and let it go completely, but if I still remember it, I say to myself that I probably didn't "really" forgive, but as time goes by I realize that those that I have forgiven I don't really remember much either, so maybe I'm beginning to forget.... it's just a process and it just doesn't happen over night... I don't feel the desire of being close to those people again or be their close friend, but I don't want revenge, I don't wish them any harm, and I start to feel indiference... which leads to forgetting.... but aren't we supposed to love everyone as well? as Christians? so forgiving and letting go, but at the same time not making an effort to love that person is not exactly Christ like....right?

You are so right, it's not an easy task.... and I don't feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be regarding this issue... I don't see it a black and white... it's complicated for me, I wish it wasn't... thank you much, very nice everything you said.

Elena

you are right, we are supposed to love others, as Christ loves us. After someone has wronged us, it's hard to have the same feelings for them as before. You can love someone as a person, or as a child of God and not be their best friend. Again, not easy, and may require much prayer. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen. WE were never promised by Heavenly Father that this test, this time we have on Earth would be easy, but we are promised it will be worth it. Each and every trial is a test. The ones that wrong you are just people, imperfect also being tested. Keep that in mind, most people don't like to hurt others, it just happens. Love them fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, it will get easier.

[kathystrick 3]

Forgive.... I am more of a believer in Karma myself, I truely believe in what goes around.

That said if anyone ever harmed one of my children.....could I forgive a child molester....nope not a chance.

I can forgive hurt that is inflicted on me far more easily than I can hurt that is inflicted on someone that I love, my rage is always greater when I am protecting my loved ones.

I think that you can remember without holding a grudge, but still learn from the lesson.

I have noticed that people who are unpleasant in whatever way, eventually will come up against a situation more unpleasant than them, and then the karmic balance is restored, sometimes karma needs a gentle prod but that is normally all it takes.

Mostly I just cut out people that do unforgivable things, I am more of a 'if the family dog bites me it goes to the pound so it can never threaten my kids' kind of person.

Nina x

I am also a firm believer in karma. I have seen the old saying "what goes around, comes around" come true too many times. In my life, I find it more peaceful and less stressful for myself to just cut those out who cause me grief. At the same time, being a believer in karma, I try to do the best I can to be the best person I can be without causing grief for others. I don't want to have to keep looking over my shoulder waiting on it to come back on me!:faint:Now, that being said, I do have the typical mother response when it comes to my kids - mess with ANY of my kids and the gloves come off. I'll take whatever karma wants to deal me for that.

[ELENATION 0]

One thing I though of, and I head about this back when that Amish school shooting took place, is that the Amish believe in complete forgiveness, to the point that if you try to have someone punished for a crime, you haven't forgiven them. Personally, I think that's going too far, in the direction of "everything must be forgiven." The case that I heard of was where an Amish girl was raped and molested as a child by two of her brothers. She wanted to see them punished by the law, as they should have been, IMO. Instead, she was the one shunned by the Amish community, after one of the brothers was convicted and jailed, because they felt that she should forgive her rapists and live beside them in harmony.

I think that's hypocritical and unrealistic and ultimately punishing that girls instead of the actual criminal...I'm sorry, but I couldn't deal with that...

[Marimaru 7]

Forgiveness is sticky. I'm not sure I believe that if someone wrongs me and feels not remorse that I am the more wrong one if I don't forgive them. I think it's silly to hold a grudge for too long, but I think there's also a difference between not forgiving and holding a grudge. I will probably never forgive my father for not going to my sister's wedding, but I still speak to him sometimes, and I don't give it a lot of thought this far down (over a year). Even if I do forgive him, I'll never forget, because I think to forget is to choose to allow the same type of situation to happen to you again in the future to some degree.

[ELENATION 0]

Forgiveness is sticky. I'm not sure I believe that if someone wrongs me and feels not remorse that I am the more wrong one if I don't forgive them. I think it's silly to hold a grudge for too long, but I think there's also a difference between not forgiving and holding a grudge. I will probably never forgive my father for not going to my sister's wedding, but I still speak to him sometimes, and I don't give it a lot of thought this far down (over a year). Even if I do forgive him, I'll never forget, because I think to forget is to choose to allow the same type of situation to happen to you again in the future to some degree.

very valid points...interesting... it's definitely sticky...

[phyllisc 0]

I am also a firm believer in karma. I have seen the old saying "what goes around, comes around" come true too many times. In my life, I find it more peaceful and less stressful for myself to just cut those out who cause me grief. At the same time, being a believer in karma, I try to do the best I can to be the best person I can be without causing grief for others. I don't want to have to keep looking over my shoulder waiting on it to come back on me!:faint:Now, that being said, I do have the typical mother response when it comes to my kids - mess with ANY of my kids and the gloves come off. I'll take whatever karma wants to deal me for that.

Kathy,

My sentiments exactly. Anyone bringing harm to any of my children will meet up with their bad karma sooner rather than later. Forget about forgiving, it just would not be possible. I hope I never have to experience the horror that some parents have been put through. My children are grown, but no matter what their age, I would still feel the same.

[kathystrick 3]

Kathy,

My sentiments exactly. Anyone bringing harm to any of my children will meet up with their bad karma sooner rather than later. Forget about forgiving, it just would not be possible. I hope I never have to experience the horror that some parents have been put through. My children are grown, but no matter what their age, I would still feel the same.

Mine are 18, 17, and 15. Not quite grown, but pretty close. I am grateful that I have been blessed with their being healthy and safe and I have never had opportunity to find out just what I am capable of when it comes to protecting them. :heh:

[ELENATION 0]

you are right, we are supposed to love others, as Christ loves us. After someone has wronged us, it's hard to have the same feelings for them as before. You can love someone as a person, or as a child of God and not be their best friend. Again, not easy, and may require much prayer. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen. WE were never promised by Heavenly Father that this test, this time we have on Earth would be easy, but we are promised it will be worth it. Each and every trial is a test. The ones that wrong you are just people, imperfect also being tested. Keep that in mind, most people don't like to hurt others, it just happens. Love them fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, it will get easier.

Thank you, as a Chritian I know you are right...I'm not 100% there yet, but I keep trying... blessing to you!

[tifferoni326 0]

Ok so heres my deal..

When I was in kindergarden, I was molested by three of my male classmates during nap time. The teacher caught them and all of us were taken to the principal's office. Now I was..heck AM a good kid, and the principals office terrified me, and my teacher dragged me in there by my arm, I can still remember her fingernails diggin in my skin. Well the principal told all of us how bsd we were and how disappointed our parents would be..and then the big thing..this would go on your permenant record..this was absolutely terrifying to me..I sat there being lectured for something that was not my fault. Well I never spoke to my parents about this. I went through most of my life with this horrible thing in me. When my younger sister went to kindergarden and had the same teacher I begged my mom to get her out of there, when she asked why, I couldnt tell her, because I was too ashamed. My mom always told me the whole nine yards about if someone touchs you tell her etc etc, yet my principal tolf me it was my fault..I finally told my mom last year. She was so upset that it had been hidden.

of the three boys, i graduated with one of them. He was in the prom court, star of the basketball team and one of the most popular kids in school.

For years, I blocked out this incident, seriously from like 2nd-6th grade or so, but I always hated this boy, yet didnt know why, until I found my old kindergarden yearbook, and saw thier pictures and it came back to me. The thing is, even though now I remember the incident, I dont hate him any more. I realize that they probally didnt know what they were doing or whatever. I have forgiven them of the deed, but I never want to forget it.

On a side note, I believe I am unable to forgive the teacher. Whenever I see her my face twists into this horrible scowl..not a good look. She on the other hand has no idea why Im mad. The principal was dismissed several years ago for misconduct

Now I know what people say about childhood memories, and how often they are made up, but this really happened to me, and according to my therapists, it explains why for years after I wet my pants..anyways

the point is, that while some might believe it would be easier to forgive if you forget, this was not the case for me, because only when I remembered could I remember to forgive, as much as I can