Gallstones....

[Biddy zz 🏳️🌈 1,003]

As some of you will have read from earlier posts, my RNY has been a dream run. An absolute dream.

But, A glitch in that, and here I sit in hospital, awaiting further tests. 10 days ago I had a bad experience -it just felt like bad bloating at the start, but became really quite bad pain in upper stomach (navel to rib cage) which made me retch, but not vomit. I ended up curled in a foetal position on the bathroom floor in pain (thank heavens for under tile heating!) and then *click* just like throwing a switch it was over. 45 minutes of pain, then as if nothing had happened. But it did make me wonder if I was developing gallstones, the dreaded RNY risk.

So, two nights ago, bed time, it started again. But this time the waves of pain went on, every 45 minutes regular as clockwork, all night. Exhausted, I came here to hospital yesterday morning - bedside ultrasound showed a gallbladder full of grit - sand sized stones. But more alarmingly, the liver enzyme tests showed me on the verge of liver failure from damage presumably caused by 12 hours of bile flooding through the liver. In hindsight, I got sick in China a month back, thought it food poinsoning but now think that was my first all-night-gallstone-event, and probably the start of the liver damage.

Sigh. So now I sit here in a hospital bed feeling fine, awaiting an MRI to look at the condition of the bile duct and pancreatic duct which look enlarged, and awaiting bloods to see if the liver is stabilising. If not - urgent surgery to remove gall bladder and investigate liver, but if so, go home and return for non-acute surgery and keep my fingers crossed I don’t have another event.

Advice - if you have that top-of-tummy pain (which can refer through and feel like back pain, too) get it sorted quick, before liver damage occurs!!

[Midwest Girl 29]

Hi Biddy zz,

i had my gallbladder out 25 years ago before any wls. The gallbladder gets messed up from fast weight loss, not specifically RNY. I doubt that you have any permanent damage to your liver. My liver enzymes have been all over the place. The liver can heal itself. Of course I’m not a dr so you have to listen to your physicians findings and advice. That said I sympathize with you over the pain. I thought I was dying when I had my attacks.

[Biddy zz 🏳️🌈 1,003]

You are right about the gallstones being a weight loss thing, not an RNY thing. But of course since an RNY results in rapid weight loss....

The surgeon in this city said 1/3 people he does RNY on have gallstones to begin, so he removes. Of the remaining 2/3, half went on to develop gallstones - so now he removes the gallbladder as standard.

Wish mine had! But he did palmitate the gallbladder and it was in good shape - despite me having previously lost a lot of weight with my initial gastric band, so I guess that was a good call at the time...

[Foxbins 625]

Your attacks sound almost identical to mine. My sleeve was in 201, my pancreatitis was in 2012 and I had my gallbladder removed a week after the pancreatitis subsided. My liver labs and pancreatic enzymes went back to normal and there was no permanent damage. Here's hoping you'll be fine, too.

[Biddy zz 🏳️🌈 1,003]

Well, I am home “on leave” for the weekend, back tomorrow for a blood test and back in bed Monday. Liver function tests are slowly reducing, so that is good. If they get to ‘normal’ then I go on a non-acute wait list for surgery 26th June and hope no gall bladder event before that. If they don’t then it is more urgent and I will get acute patient surgery this week.

Meanwhile eating is a challenge, no sugar (dumping), low Protein (damaged liver) and avoid all fat (gall bladder) so lettuce is my friend! And chickpeas.

But looking on the bright side - I am only 1 lb from goal now!!

Edited June 9, 2018 by Biddy zz

[BostonWLKC 807]

Good luck and I hope you don’t have any issues over next couple of weeks!

[Little Green 583]

Holy guacamole! You poor thing. Did your surgeon have you on any preventative meds, by any chance? We're required to take an anti-gallstone med for six months and I'm hoping that as a result I can avoid this issue. *crosses fingers*

[Biddy zz 🏳️🌈 1,003]

I didn’t even know there WERE preventative meds!

My advice? TAKE THE MEDS! I cannot wait to get this gall bladder and sand out so I know I won’t have another bout of that pain again.

The silver lining - I am at my goal weight. I am officially no longer overweight!

[Matt Z 4,139]

On 6/9/2018 at 9:12 PM, Little Green said:

Holy guacamole! You poor thing. Did your surgeon have you on any preventative meds, by any chance? We're required to take an anti-gallstone med for six months and I'm hoping that as a result I can avoid this issue. *crosses fingers*

These are only effective if you don't have stones already. I have stones (had before RNY) and I was told that the medication to prevent wouldn't work, because the stones already exist.
Stone pain sucks, my biggest attack that landed me in the ER, I thought was a heart attack, even though it was on the wrong side...

Apple cider / Apple juice (and apple cider vinegar) help with stones, Malic Acid in the apple juice helps soften the gallstones.

[Little Green 583]

8 hours ago, Matt Z said:

These are only effective if you don't have stones already. I have stones (had before RNY) and I was told that the medication to prevent wouldn't work, because the stones already exist.
Stone pain sucks, my biggest attack that landed me in the ER, I thought was a heart attack, even though it was on the wrong side...

Apple cider / Apple juice (and apple cider vinegar) help with stones, Malic Acid in the apple juice helps soften the gallstones.

Thanks for the info, but I'll have to assume my surgeon knows what she's doing in recommending the medication.

[Biddy zz 🏳️🌈 1,003]

My gallbladder is out, and they managed it laparoscopically, against their predictions!

The surgeon (not same as my RNY surgeon) said on my waking “the surgery was relatively simple because you are slender”.

I could have kissed him. With tongue 😁😁😁😁💋

[Matt Z 4,139]

18 hours ago, Little Green said:

Thanks for the info, but I'll have to assume my surgeon knows what she's doing in recommending the medication.

That's great that you feel your surgeon knows what she's doing. I know mine does, I mean, I'm sure she didn't send me for an ultrasound of my gallbladder to find out if I had stones or not so she didn't prescribe me a medication that I didn't need for no reason.

[Little Green 583]

3 hours ago, Matt Z said:

That's great that you feel your surgeon knows what she's doing. I know mine does, I mean, I'm sure she didn't send me for an ultrasound of my gallbladder to find out if I had stones or not so she didn't prescribe me a medication that I didn't need for no reason.

It's not like she's a trained medical professional in one of the best hospitals in the country who's done hundreds of cases under this protocol or anything, so obviously everyone should get an extra medical procedure that their insurance may or may not cover instead.

Dude, you wonder why people don't react well to your posts You have a lot of good insight to share but you are not smarter or more knowledgeable than my surgeon for f-ck's sake!

[Matt Z 4,139]

46 minutes ago, Little Green said:

It's not like she's a trained medical professional in one of the best hospitals in the country who's done hundreds of cases under this protocol or anything, so obviously everyone should get an extra medical procedure that their insurance may or may not cover instead.

Dude, you wonder why people don't react well to your posts You have a lot of good insight to share but you are not smarter or more knowledgeable than my surgeon for f-ck's sake!

You do realize you are actively trying to tell me that "your surgeon is better" because she gave you meds you might not need... I'm not saying **I'M** smarter than anyone... simply that, and this is fact.... if you have gall stones, that medication isn't going to do anything (at the dosage typically prescribed for WLS, yes there is a therapeutic level, but that's 3+ times a day for months and even then it's not guaranteed to be effective, you can research that yourself)... this came from a multi-award winning surgeon who's done thousands of bariatric surgeries, the head of the pharmacy at a Lifespan training hospital, and several other medical professionals. So, you can try to twist it however you wish... but don't you dare try to tell me that I'm trying to claim I'm smarter than anyone else for relaying the information in the same fashion as you are doing.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Matt Z

[TakingABreak 2,733]

On 06/12/2018 at 13:25, Little Green said:

It's not like she's a trained medical professional in one of the best hospitals in the country who's done hundreds of cases under this protocol or anything, so obviously everyone should get an extra medical procedure that their insurance may or may not cover instead.

Dude, you wonder why people don't react well to your posts You have a lot of good insight to share but you are not smarter or more knowledgeable than my surgeon for f-ck's sake!

I personally value Matt’s opinion, as one of the few men who regularly post. I don’t think he ever said he was smarter than anyone. He just stated the same thing that my doctor told me, which is, medication will not help if gullstones already exist.
Now, if you’ve been around the block enough, you’ll know that almost every one of us has different programs. This tells me right there that doctors do different things. I’ve personally challenged my doctor with things I’ve read on here, because I have wondered if his way was the only way. I’m just saying that, doctors aren’t always “right”. There are lots of methods to choose from.