Dr. Atkins, pioneer of the ketogenic diet

[Creekimp13 5,840]

1 hour ago, FluffyChix said:

The fat/cholesterol hypothesis of heart disease was disproved not too long ago.

And yet...

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/high-blood-cholesterol/symptoms-causes/syc-20350800

[Creekimp13 5,840]

Russel Wilder was on the ground floor and actually NAMED the ketogenic diet...the ketogenic diet....at mayo clinic back in the early 1920's when they were using it to treat epilepsy.

And yet...Mayo doesn't even leave epileptic kids on the diet for over two years today....because of enduring concerns about cardiovascular side effects.

Not to say Mayo is the Know-all End-all of medical research. But they have a hell of a reputation.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Creekimp13

[FluffyChix 17,415]

Sorry, I meant to say dietary fat/cholesterol theory of cvd has been disproved. I will try to go back and edit that because dietary is an important word.

https://www.nutritioncoalition.us/saturated-fats-do-they-cause-heart-disease/

https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/study-says-theres-no-link-between-cholesterol-and-heart-disease/

https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/

https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-why-everyone-should-know-their-ldl-particle-number/

https://chriskresser.com/what-causes-elevated-ldl-particle-number/

I could site studies and articles by very well-respected doctors and researchers to debate this, but won't.

[Creekimp13 5,840]

Fluff you are correct that Atkin's shitty cardiovascular problems were strongly influenced by his illness.

But his diet sure as hell didn't help him. He still had heart attacks and couldn't breath....and it very well might have made his condition worse. We don't know.

Looking in his arteries in an autopsy could have provided information about whether it did or not......but his family didn't allow that....so we'll never know.

[FluffyChix 17,415]

2 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

I didn't say he died of a heart attack. I said he had a heart attack that damaged his heart. The attack was caused by endocarditis. He died from slipping on ice and had a blood clot. People in comas often suffer edema build up. Their skin weeps. I've seen it and dealt with patients with this problem. It was NOT unusual for them to gain more than >50lbs.

No, she didn't want unscrupulous people attacking his life work.

There are so many supportive research and so many doctors who continue this work. You know nothing about what you are accusing.

You do not have the facts.

Dr. Stephen Finney

Dr. Jeff Volek

Dr. Mike Eades

Dr. Eric Westman

Dr. Tim Noakes

Dr. Dominic D'Agostino

Dr. Richard Feinman

Dr. William Davis

Dr. Perlmutter

https://www.mensjournal.com/food-drink/truth-behind-worlds-most-cutting-edge-fat-burning-performance-meal-plan-keto/

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

I could list other sources for the fail of fat causing heart disease, this is just the first one that came up. But there are MANY more!

These are all medical physicians who've authored countless papers and studies in peer reviewed journals--respected physicians who all have helped prove that ketogenic diets ARE beneficial when done correctly. The fat/cholesterol hypothesis of heart disease was disproved not too long ago.

Sorry. This line has a typo and should read:

"The DIETARY fat/cholesterol hypothesis of heart disease was disproved not too long ago."

[FluffyChix 17,415]

1 minute ago, Creekimp13 said:

Fluff you are correct that Atkin's shitty cardiovascular problems were strongly influenced by his illness.

But his diet sure as hell didn't help him. He still had heart attacks and couldn't breath....and it very well might have made his condition worse. We don't know.

Looking in his arteries in an autopsy could have provided information about whether it did or not......but his family didn't allow that....so we'll never know.

"shi*ty diet" is YOUR opinion, NOT backed up with facts. Sorry. But TRUE! You're entitled to your own belief and view. But the debate over this is being fought by scientists in labs and in peer reviewed journals.

A low carb diet it NOT a shi*ty diet. Is it perfect for everyone? Nope. Not even. But does it help ameliorate certain disease progression? Yes it does.

[Creekimp13 5,840]

Oye. To each their own, my friend. Whatever:)

[Mattymatt 491]

Thank you for debunking the myths surrounding Dr. Atkins, @Creekimp13 and @FluffyChix. Moderation in eating is still very important. Atkins only caught on to the importance of enough Protein in your diet. There is also science to show that diets low in sugar are actually much better for you. It doesn't mean consuming vast amounts of unhealthy foods. Furthermore, I don't know where they came up with the grapefruit malarky. There is so much junk science in the diet industry that it is disgusting.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Mattymatt

[FluffyChix 17,415]

Indeed. Not enough hour in my day to waste any more time on this ridiculous thread.

[jess9395 5,449]

I like grapefruit

[Over and Out 29]

On 4/24/2018 at 11:47 AM, Creekimp13 said:

All we can do is pay our money, take our chances, and trust the sources that seem most reputable to us.

Our ancestors, the great apes, are not meat eaters. They're fruit, plant fat, and vegetation eaters.

Once in a while...they eat eggs, insects, an occasional meat meal (less than 3% of their diet)

But mostly, they eat fruit, nuts, seeds, and tons of vegetation. And they get a ton of exercise and sleep.

(And of course, FIRE and cooking marked a huge change in nutrition and gut lengths as early hominids needed less large intestine and more small intestine to get the most nutrition out of pre-broken down foods)

Sorry about the anthropology rant. LOL. But I guess it is the rant board.

Interestingly, the people on the planet who live the longest....eat the Mediterranean diet...which is nutritionally similar.....lots of plant fats, fruits and veggies, legumes, lower Protein. They also get more exercise and sleep than the statistical norm.

Diet will be controversial until the end of time. We all have our prejudices. I'm so far up the mayo Clinic Diet's butt...I can take it's temperature. LOL. We all have our favorites.

I know you're a Keto Disciple, Fluff, and I'm not trying to change you. If it works for you, awesome.

To each, their own.

Hate to add to the anthropology rant. But great apes are not our ancestors. We share a common ancestor that lived 5 to 11 million years ago.

[clsumrall 535]

All we can do is pay our money, take our chances, and trust the sources that seem most reputable to us.
Our ancestors, the great apes, are not meat eaters. They're fruit, plant fat, and vegetation eaters.
Once in a while...they eat eggs, insects, an occasional meat meal (less than 3% of their diet)
But mostly, they eat fruit, nuts, seeds, and tons of vegetation. And they get a ton of exercise and sleep.< br> (And of course, FIRE and cooking marked a huge change in nutrition and gut lengths as early hominids needed less large intestine and more small intestine to get the most nutrition out of pre-broken down foods)
Sorry about the anthropology rant. LOL. But I guess it is the rant board.
Interestingly, the people on the planet who live the longest....eat the Mediterranean diet...which is nutritionally similar.....lots of plant fats, fruits and veggies, legumes, lower Protein. They also get more exercise and sleep than the statistical norm.
Diet will be controversial until the end of time. We all have our prejudices. I'm so far up the mayo Clinic Diet's butt...I can take it's temperature. LOL. We all have our favorites.
I know you're a Keto Disciple, Fluff, and I'm not trying to change you. If it works for you, awesome.
To each, their own.

Sorry my family did not come from the apes. Sorry that’s yours did. Oh and FYI
There are carnivorous species of apes that eat their own

[Mattymatt 491]

Sorry my family did not come from the apes. Sorry that’s yours did. Oh and FYI
There are carnivorous species of apes that eat their own

I take it that you don't believe in evolution? I'm not a big fan of creationism and so-called intelligent design.

Sent from my Z981 using BariatricPal mobile app

[Creekimp13 5,840]

5 hours ago, Conflicted said:

Hate to add to the anthropology rant. But great apes are not our ancestors.

If we're being absolutely technical....since humans ARE great apes...indeed, our ancestors are great apes as well. I could have technically said Hominidea, our taxonomic family of great apes (which includes humans and the other great apes and our combined ancestors)...but I wanted to keep things simple for the sake of conversation.

4 hours ago, clsumrall said:

There are carnivorous species of apes that eat their own

Human beings are one such example.

A hominoid, commonly called an ape, is a member of the superfamily Hominoidea: extant members are the gibbons (lesser apes, family Hylobatidae) and the hominids. A hominid is a member of the family Hominidae, the great apes: orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans.

We ARE great apes.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Creekimp13

[Creekimp13 5,840]

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics

From the perspective of this powerful test of biological kinship (DNA), humans are not only related to the great apes – we are one. The DNA evidence leaves us with one of the greatest surprises in biology: the wall between human, on the one hand, and ape, on the other, has been breached. The human evolutionary tree is embedded within the great apes.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Creekimp13