IRAQ WAR your thoughts

[L8BloomR 1]

If I was getting bombed during weddings, standing in line to go dancing, or sitting down for a nice holiday dinner in a public hotel, I might just want to shoot someone for no other reason than walking down the street. 1940's is not where it all started by the way, but if you want to start from there, chew on this awhile:

The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern invention. Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation." So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters."

Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course-that's where the real fun is-but mostly they want Israel.

Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel-or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it-for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's really saying something. It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five million Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be pals. Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.

My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it. Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every Fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab state into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting.

No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

This is one of the best descriptions I have ever read of this situation. Thank you, Kagoscuba. I have a friend who lives in Israel and she has brought up some of those same points. These are things that most of us here never have brought to our attention. I research as much as I can and have found this quite accurate.

Yes, the IRA, the KKK and so many other groups are guilty of using terrorism to make their points, but there are so many differences between them and what goes on in the "Israeli/Palestinian" conflict. These other groups were either trying to make a stand for a particular way of life or against a perceived injustice. None of them tried to take over or take away an entire country. And in spite of the numerous times that the Palestinians have been offered their own country (remember when Pres. Clinton engineered a huge concession of land from the Israeli Prime Minister Barak ....and Yassar Arafat turned it down?), they still demand that Israel needs to give more. If they truly only wanted a place to call their own, they would have taken that place. To not do so suggests there is more to their "need" then just a country.

[Wheetsin 714]

I'm not going to pretend that I know everything that's going on in the Middle East with anyone including Israel or the Palestinians but who is being anti-semantic here?

Anti-semitic. Anti-semantic would be "against the meaning of symbols." What about kagoscuba's post reads as anti-semitic to you?

[anonemouse 1]

Anti semitic. Anti semantic would be "against the meaning of symbols." Wwhat about kagoscuba's post reads as anti-semitic to you?

Actually, she was the one being accused of anti-semitism, so I think she was just trying to figure out what part of her post was supposed to be anti-semitic.

[Wheetsin 714]

Ah, as I read it, she thought kagoscuba's post was anti-semitic -- which would have made for interesting reading.

[Chris_NJ 9]

Actually, she was the one being accused of anti-semitism, so I think she was just trying to figure out what part of her post was supposed to be anti-semitic.

It was me who called her anti-Semetic. Let me rephrase that to a better way.

I feel she is part of the " Blame Israel for all the worlds problem crowd" considering this whole thread is about the Iraq war and not Israel.

[hijabigirl1973 0]

thank you for correcting me on the wrong terminology there, my fingers get ahead of my brain at times. I have never called anyone anti-semitic, sorry you misinterpreted what I said.

Anti-semitic. Anti-semantic would be "against the meaning of symbols." What about kagoscuba's post reads as anti-semitic to you?

[hijabigirl1973 0]

Ummm you might want to re read my first post Chris, I was using the Israel Palistinian conflict as a reminder that America turned a blind eye when we were actually helping Saddam and he was already torturing the Iraqis. I've learned that lesson b/c apparently no one even payed attention to that part of it.

I do not condone anyone for violence, be them Muslims, Jews, or Christians. Am I saying all the Palistinians are innocent? No but many of them are, so are some of the Israelis but I've seen first hand what is done over there.

Chris you don't know me so don't assume anything about me, more times than not you'll be wrong.

Like I said nothing is as black and white as many seem to think it is.

[Wheetsin 714]

No worries at all - and I certainly did misread (still do!). Such is the nature of the online communication beast.

[nina874 48]

*************The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years**************

Zimbabwe was called Rhodesia once does that mean that it ceased to exist once the name was changed? What happened to all the people that were living in Rhodesia just minding their own business and getting on with their lives I wonder?

*****Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then******

What war???? As I pointed out before the Brits GAVE that land away when they carved up the Turkish empire. I refer you once again to the Balfour treaty. I know that facts are pesky things but its nice to see them every now and again.

Foreign Office,

November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely

Arthur James Balfour

**************Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters."************

I am staggered at the level of purile rascism on display here. If you want to argue a point based on historical fact then fine bring it on, if you are forced to resort to hysterical ranting then I am sorry that you are so closed minded to the fact that strange though it may seem there are 2 sides to every story.

I do not agree with ANY form of terrorism, and I do understand the huge problems faced by Israel in the region, but to dismiss an entire race of people who were forced out of their homelands in the way that you have beggars belief.Are you seriously trying to say that ALL of the Palenstinian children killed in the conflict deserved to die, that is how it is reading to me. I have equal sympathy and horror for the Israeli children who have been killed.

Do I think that the Palestinians are innocent in this conflict? No of course I dont, equally you cannot say that the Israelis are either.

Oh and please dont embarrass yourself by accusing me of racism.

[DerickM 1]

Ummm you might want to re read my first post Chris, I was using the Israel Palistinian conflict as a reminder that America turned a blind eye when we were actually helping Saddam and he was already torturing the Iraqis. I've learned that lesson b/c apparently no one even payed attention to that part of it.

I do not condone anyone for violence, be them Muslims, Jews, or Christians. Am I saying all the Palistinians are innocent? No but many of them are, so are some of the Israelis but I've seen first hand what is done over there.

Chris you don't know me so don't assume anything about me, more times than not you'll be wrong.

Like I said nothing is as black and white as many seem to think it is.

Under Carter, the US supported the covert funding of the mujahadeen, the Taliban's predecessor, and also, to a lesser degree, Osama bin Laden.

America has made mistakes, just like any country (and major religion) has and will continue to do in the future. Funding extremist groups was a mistake of global proportions obviously, what are we supposed to do? Ignore it?

[nina874 48]

Do you think that continually interfering is making it better? Please explain to me the difference to the people of Iraq between guns that are fired by terorrists and guns that are fired by British and American troops? Do you think that they give a sh!t, would you if it were your country it was happeing in?

[ELENATION 0]

Do you think that continually interfering is making it better? Please explain to me the difference to the people of Iraq between guns that are fired by terorrists and guns that are fired by British and American troops? Do you think that they give a sh!t, would you if it were your country it was happeing in?

With all due respect, I think there is a HUGE difference between guns fired by terrorists that are ultimately doing it with no valid reasons behind it , well, maybe I should say that their reasoning is evil...and the guns fired by the americans or british who went there for a reason to accomplish a mission...is it great for the people that have been killed or their families?, of course not, we all know they will suffer regardless, but there is a big difference though... the guns fired by the terrorists are what caused the Americans and our allies to fire ours in the first place... the result maybe similar as far as the losses, but the intentions are totally different and I know people in Iraq appreciate that..

For example, I'm Cuban, grew up there for 14 years, I saw members of my family, friends being killed by Castro, just because they didn't agree with him, they would take them in the middle of the night and next morning they would execute them, no trial, couldn't even say goodbye to their families..... pretty much Castro viciously murdered them... however, cubans would have given ANYTHING for an American invasion...yes I assure you that! and of course lives would've been lost, but we were prepared to live with that, just for the sake of taking Castro out...many, MANY cubans were willing to risk their lives, homes, anything to take Castro out... and they could see the difference between lives lost because Castro was just a monster killer who had complete disregard for any life, and lives that may have been lost for a just cause...for valid reasons..looking for freedom...

[ELENATION 0]

Under Carter, the US supported the covert funding of the mujahadeen, the Taliban's predecessor, and also, to a lesser degree, Osama bin Laden.

America has made mistakes, just like any country (and major religion) has and will continue to do in the future. Funding extremist groups was a mistake of global proportions obviously, what are we supposed to do? Ignore it?

Agreed....no we CAN'T ignore it... it's simply irresponsible for our country to ignore it..

[nina874 48]

*****With all due respect, I think there is a HUGE difference between guns fired by terrorists that are ultimately doing it with no valid reasons behind it , well, maybe I should say that their reasoning is evil******

Define freedom fighter

[nina874 48]

****the result maybe similar as far as the losses, but the intentions are totally different and I know people in Iraq appreciate that********

Really, please tell me how you know that?

Are you aware that the Kurdish people that America are fighting to protect are wanted in Turkey for several acts of terrorism? And again define the difference between Freedom Fighter and Terrorist.