IRAQ WAR your thoughts

[anonemouse 1]

For the record, I consider myself to be a huge patriot. That's why I am so infuriated with the current President. I feel like he's ruining this country, our reputation overseas, everything we stand for. It's all being washed down the drain and it makes me so mad.

[L8BloomR 1]

I think that says it all, in a nutshell. The 9/11 Commission was a non-partisan commission brought together to explore the events leading up to, during, and post 9/11, and some will still reject their results as an opinion less deserving than their own. That makes about as much sense as a panel of doctors giving someone a diagnosis for an illness and that person saying, "In my opinion, I'm not sick." Condoleeza Rice's own staffer explained the absence of a 9/11 - Iraq link, not Sean Penn or Susan Sarandon, and that is still not enough evidence...amazing.

The reason so many people don't wholeheartedly buy all of the 9/11 Commission's findings is because some of the people involved told how they were muzzled...and because Jamie Gorlick, (who was the person responsible for putting a wall between the FBI and the CIA making it impossible for them to share info during the Clinton years) was the head of the Commission, and because information pertinent to what Clinton knew about terrorist threats and what he did about it was destroyed by Sandy Berger and therefore not able to be included. There were large gaps in this commission's available information and many Republicans (and a few Democrats) claimed there was information deliberately left out. If you were on this side of the political spectrum, you would be suspicious of the final report, too, I think.

[ELENATION 0]

Thank you for explaining. The implication that infuriates me is that if I don't agree with the current President about the Iraq war, I must not be a patriot, and I must have forgotten about all the people that lost their lives on 9/11. It's a low blow, IMO, and it does basically call my patriotism and how "good" of an American I am into question. Can you understand how someone could be hurt and become very angry because of that comment?

You know, feeling hurt and angry because you believe that someone has called you unpatriotic is a good thing, it means that you are indeed patriotic, otherwise you wouldn't care... and even thought when words are written here they sometimes come across different from what we really mean to say, I really don't think that you were called unpatriotic, I really don't.

[ELENATION 0]

The reason so many people don't wholeheartedly buy all of the 9/11 Commission's findings is because some of the people involved told how they were muzzled...and because Jamie Gorlick, (who was the person responsible for putting a wall between the FBI and the CIA making it impossible for them to share info during the Clinton years) was the head of the Commission, and because information pertinent to what Clinton knew about terrorist threats and what he did about it was destroyed by Sandy Berger and therefore not able to be included. There were large gaps in this commission's available information and many Republicans (and a few Democrats) claimed there was information deliberately left out. If you were on this side of the political spectrum, you would be suspicious of the final report, too, I think.

No need to add anything else, you said it all, I stand in complete agreement with you on this.

[ELENATION 0]

For the record, I consider myself to be a huge patriot. That's why I am so infuriated with the current President. I feel like he's ruining this country, our reputation overseas, everything we stand for. It's all being washed down the drain and it makes me so mad.

As long as you consider yourself a huge patriot, that's what matters!

I don't think we have to totally agree or disagree with the president to be a patriot.. we are all simply different, think different, have gone through different life experiences that makes us feel the way we do..

I for one think that Bush has not been perfect of course, I don't think any president has been in the history of the US, you know, these are really people, they make mistakes like everyone else, but I also think Bush has taken a lot of blame for things that were already going on when he got into office, I think that his intentions have been good and sometimes things didn't work out the way they should have, but I think he has tried, I've seen other presidents done worst, at least in my opinion.... now, in my case, I don't bash my country's leaders, never have, wether I agree with them or not, I don't care if they are republican or democrats, I may comment on things that I like or not like about his performance as the president, but I I wouId never insult him, would never ever go overseas and bash him, I personally find that behavior disgusting, I personally wait for the next term, for a president that I may like more, but I hate the bashing thing.... it's a matter of loyalty for me, I guess it's just my reasoning, for me it's like if my child committed a crime and went to prison, I would hate it, I would disagree, I would tell her, but I would still go see her on sundays and be there for her, because ultimately she is my child, well, as silly as that may sound, that is how I feel about the leaders of our country....the good thing is that every 4 years we have a new opportunity to elect a different one, but for now, we, and I mean we, the people put him there, so I respect that.. personally our reputation overseas doesn't concern me terribly, I don't have the greatest opinion about their reputation myself, and besides, the US has always been the target of envy among many in this world, no matter how much we do, it's never enough....but I don't see many countries out there doing much..., anyway, that's a whole different issue...

[L8BloomR 1]

As long as you consider yourself a huge patriot, that's what matters!

I don't think we have to totally agree or disagree with the president to be a patriot.. we are all simply different, think different, have gone through different life experiences that makes us feel the way we do..

I for one think that Bush has not been perfect of course, I don't think any president has been in the history of the US, you know, these are really people, they make mistakes like everyone else, but I also think Bush has taken a lot of blame for things that were already going on when he got into office, I think that his intentions have been good and sometimes things didn't work out the way they should have, but I think he has tried, I've seen other presidents done worst, at least in my opinion.... now, in my case, I don't bash my country's leaders, never have, wether I agree with them or not, I don't care if they are republican or democrats, I may comment on things that I like or not like about his performance as the president, but I I wouId never insult him, would never ever go overseas and bash him, I personally find that behavior disgusting, I personally wait for the next term, for a president that I may like more, but I hate the bashing thing.... it's a matter of loyalty for me, I guess it's just my reasoning, for me it's like if my child committed a crime and went to prison, I would hate it, I would disagree, I would tell her, but I would still go see her on sundays and be there for her, because ultimately she is my child, well, as silly as that may sound, that is how I feel about the leaders of our country....the good thing is that every 4 years we have a new opportunity to elect a different one, but for now, we, and I mean we, the people put him there, so I respect that.. personally our reputation overseas doesn't concern me terribly, I don't have the greatest opinion about their reputation myself, and besides, the US has always been the target of envy among many in this world, no matter how much we do, it's never enough....but I don't see many countries out there doing much..., anyway, that's a whole different issue...

Great post, Elena! :clap2: I like the way you stated this and I agree completely!

[nina874 48]

At least you are all allowed to still be patriots....sigh....in britain now we have gone so PC that most councils demanded that their workers not hang Union Jacks as it may be 'offensive to some'. Ironic really when you think about it.....

[cj_ole 0]

I have to agree with L8BLOOMER. I personally did not vote for Mr. Bush. I think the man's pretty much an idiot on ALOT of things. That said, he IS the leader of this country. The majority of us elected him to make these decisions for us, and simply because of that, we should ALL stand behind him. We have the right to disagree with anything and everything that he does, but I would hope in the end, we would throw our hats into the ring and give him our support.

And, for the record, I wouldn't call anyone I didn't know personally anything, so if anyone has taken any offense to something I voiced my "opinion" on, then I appologize.

CJ

[hijabigirl1973 0]

One thing that seems to be left out of this conversation is the American involvement with Iraq in the past. American actually helped finance Iraq, helped them with military strategies, sold them weapons, etc. All of this was going on while Saddam was torturing others in his own country and America turned a blind eye and others have forgotten all of these issues since then. Research it yourself and you will find tons of documents, video footages of Saddam with America's politicians. It's the same as what we are doing with Isreal, we are financing them when they are killing tons of innocent Palestinians. Am I saying that I think Saddam was justified, absolutely not. I'm glad he was taken down but this isn't as black and white as many make it out to be. We knew for many years what he was doing over there and did absolutely nothing about it.

On the subject of Al-Qaeda they are everywhere in this world. The American govt actually did them a huge favor by invading Iraq. It's much easier for them to go into Iraq then it is for them to get into the U.S. We put our troops at further risk by putting them right in the middle of the Middle East where there are training camps for Al Qaeda. At the same time there are billions of Iraqi's dying that are innocent I have friends that have lost entire families over there, other friends don't know if their families are alive or dead.

I don't believe war is ever an answer. Killing innocent people is always a factor in war and it can never be justified.

"TO THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD"

This is the story that must be told

of an Iraqi baby, not very old.

Lying in her crib one star lit night

How could she know of those planes in flight?

She lay there quietly touching her nose,

Watching her mobile, wiggling her toes,

Oohing and cooing, so sweetly is she,

Talking to someone, who could it be?

An angel is standing with her in the room.

The baby is smiling, unaware of her doom.

The crib starts to shake and the mobile goes round.

And suddenly comes a most deafening sound.

The ceiling drops in, in a second or two ...

On top of her crib so she ceases to coo ...

No one knows how long she lie there

Who thought about it? doesn't anyone care?

Is she alive? is she dead? Is she in any pain?

Now that you mention it, who knows her name?

Her name is Amal. In English we say Hope.

Crushed between the rubble,her tiny fingers start to grope.

Where is my mommy? I love her so dear

Come, get me mommy! It's dark in here!

I'm scared and I'm hungry and I can't see my feet.

There's blood in my mouth! Give me something to eat!

Where is my daddy? Where's my big brother?

It hurts when I breath! Where is my mother?!

How long have I been here? Is this just a dream?

I open my mouth, but can't even scream.

That angel appears once again to my side,

This time with a tear I plead Why have I died?

Am I alone in my sufferings? No, there are many others.

In our grief and our misery, we are sisters and brothers.

Who are we? I ask you ... for what crime did we die?

They're throwing a party! Doesn't anyone cry?!

Is it True? Am I nothing?! How could it be?

Don't they also have babies, just like me?

It is war they say, of which death is part.

How blind they've become, How hardened of heart.

Did someone say hero? To whom do they speak?

A victory claimed for killing the weak?!

Why are they happy? Why are they proud?

Don't they know that I'm cold in my burial shroud?!

No war has been won; No ifs, buts, or maybes,

They've Only Killed Babies!!!!

Signed Me,

An Iraqi Baby

[Chris_NJ 9]

One thing that seems to be left out of this conversation is the American involvement with Iraq in the past. American actually helped finance Iraq, helped them with military strategies, sold them weapons, etc. All of this was going on while Saddam was torturing others in his own country and America turned a blind eye and others have forgotten all of these issues since then. Research it yourself and you will find tons of documents, video footages of Saddam with America's politicians. It's the same as what we are doing with Isreal, we are financing them when they are killing tons of innocent Palestinians. Am I saying that I think Saddam was justified, absolutely not. I'm glad he was taken down but this isn't as black and white as many make it out to be. We knew for many years what he was doing over there and did absolutely nothing about it.

On the subject of Al-Qaeda they are everywhere in this world. The American govt actually did them a huge favor by invading Iraq. It's much easier for them to go into Iraq then it is for them to get into the U.S. We put our troops at further risk by putting them right in the middle of the Middle East where there are training camps for Al Qaeda. At the same time there are billions of Iraqi's dying that are innocent I have friends that have lost entire families over there, other friends don't know if their families are alive or dead.

I don't believe war is ever an answer. Killing innocent people is always a factor in war and it can never be justified.

"TO THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD"

This is the story that must be told

of an Iraqi baby, not very old.

Lying in her crib one star lit night

How could she know of those planes in flight?

She lay there quietly touching her nose,

Watching her mobile, wiggling her toes,

Oohing and cooing, so sweetly is she,

Talking to someone, who could it be?

An angel is standing with her in the room.

The baby is smiling, unaware of her doom.

The crib starts to shake and the mobile goes round.

And suddenly comes a most deafening sound.

The ceiling drops in, in a second or two ...

On top of her crib so she ceases to coo ...

No one knows how long she lie there

Who thought about it? doesn't anyone care?

Is she alive? is she dead? Is she in any pain?

Now that you mention it, who knows her name?

Her name is Amal. In English we say Hope.

Crushed between the rubble,her tiny fingers start to grope.

Where is my mommy? I love her so dear

Come, get me mommy! It's dark in here!

I'm scared and I'm hungry and I can't see my feet.

There's blood in my mouth! Give me something to eat!

Where is my daddy? Where's my big brother?

It hurts when I breath! Where is my mother?!

How long have I been here? Is this just a dream?

I open my mouth, but can't even scream.

That angel appears once again to my side,

This time with a tear I plead Why have I died?

Am I alone in my sufferings? No, there are many others.

In our grief and our misery, we are sisters and brothers.

Who are we? I ask you ... for what crime did we die?

They're throwing a party! Doesn't anyone cry?!

Is it True? Am I nothing?! How could it be?

Don't they also have babies, just like me?

It is war they say, of which death is part.

How blind they've become, How hardened of heart.

Did someone say hero? To whom do they speak?

A victory claimed for killing the weak?!

Why are they happy? Why are they proud?

Don't they know that I'm cold in my burial shroud?!

No war has been won; No ifs, buts, or maybes,

They've Only Killed Babies!!!!

Signed Me,

An Iraqi Baby

You need psychiatric help. You say you belong to a religion of peace? Sounds like you are spewing nothing but anti semitic hate.

You need to check this site out and tell me who is killing babies before you accuse anyone else.

TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World

[ELENATION 0]

You need psychiatric help. You say you belong to a religion of peace? Sounds like you are spewing nothing but anti semitic hate.

You need to check this site out and tell me who is killing babies before you accuse anyone else.

TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World

Just when I thought I've heard it all..... I think not even psychiatric help would do in this case....ugh! simply disgusting...

[kagoscuba 0]

hijab, you are right about Iraq, and I consider you wrong about Israel. Innocent Palestinians? Please. I think Israel has shown enormous restraint, considering the wars and terrorism they've beenput through.

[marnie723 0]

That's my cry for the day. Very sad reminder that children & innocent people are killed EVERYWHERE due to war.

[hijabigirl1973 0]

Wow you don't even know me and have the nerve to say that. Unbelievable. I love how you give me a link that is totally AGAINST Islam, pretty typical for a hater I must say. Educate yourself, learn about the TRUE Islam and not what people who say they are Muslim and terrorizing ppl are doing. I don't condone any of the ppl using Islam as an excuse to kill anyone. As for Israel this war goes back many many years, the 1940's is when it started. If you were being thrown out of your homes, shot down for walking down the middle of the street I believe you would be fighting back as well.

To anyone who wants to know what true Islam is all about I have tons of websites, literature you can read to see what is true. Statements on this Islamaphobia site that Chris put up are total lies about Islam. You will not find those practices in the lives of true Muslims.

[Chris_NJ 9]

Wow you don't even know me and have the nerve to say that. Unbelievable. I love how you give me a link that is totally AGAINST Islam, pretty typical for a hater I must say. Educate yourself, learn about the TRUE Islam and not what people who say they are Muslim and terrorizing ppl are doing. I don't condone any of the ppl using Islam as an excuse to kill anyone. As for Israel this war goes back many many years, the 1940's is when it started. If you were being thrown out of your homes, shot down for walking down the middle of the street I believe you would be fighting back as well.

To anyone who wants to know what true Islam is all about I have tons of websites, literature you can read to see what is true. Statements on this Islamaphobia site that Chris put up are total lies about Islam. You will not find those practices in the lives of true Muslims.

And your anti-Semite hate? Please answer for it. You post on another thread about how you hate being stereotyped but yet you follow suit with anti-Semite posts and a sick poem about dead baby's?

Don't preach to the choir when you need to clean up your own back yard.

I don't hate Muslims I just wish some would stand up and realize that pointing fingers at other faiths when there own extremist sect is killing so many innocents.

You say its lies well then prove it. Has Iran been killing people who are gays lately? Can woman vote yet in some middle eastern countries or even drive a car ? Be glad you are a convert in this country. Were all 19 9/11 hijackers Muslims? Are not suicide attacks on a daily base done by Muslims?

Prove it is all I ask.