Obama forgets to salute flag...........

[laurenwhite82 0]

The problem with McCain is, he stopped deviating when he needed to pandor to his own party. I didnt mind him when he deviated. He used to stand for something different, but as soon as he became the front runner for the republicans he threw all that out the window. I do realize that all politicians do this to some extent, but hes taken it pretty far.

[ELENATION 0]

The problem with McCain is, he stopped deviating when he needed to pandor to his own party. I didnt mind him when he deviated. He used to stand for something different, but as soon as he became the front runner for the republicans he threw all that out the window. I do realize that all politicians do this to some extent, but hes taken it pretty far.

I'm not sure about that though... way after he was the front runner we had Limbaugh and Glenn Beck telling people not to vote for McCain still... I'm sure that if McCain would've been showing his "true" orthodox republican side, they would've stopped saying it... Ann Coulter was still claiming that she would vote for Hillary before she voted for McCain and there are still plenty of conservative republicans that are not happy with McCain for his too "liberal" ways...which I call moderate... in fact my concern for McCain is that some republicans will stay home away from the polls because the fact that he is a different kind of republican. I won't be doing that, I find him refreshing.

Edited June 23, 2008 by ELENATION

[laurenwhite82 0]

But you must admit hes become more and more aligned with the party views as November becomes closer and closer. He used to be pro-choice for the love of God. He definitely is no longer...Id call that a major flip. He used to bash the RNC for the way they took contributions from PACs and other "advocacy" groups. Now hes taking as much of their money as he can get so that he can run his campain. He also used to support the GI Bill...the one that he now opposes. The list goes on and on.

[BJean 16]

Oops did I go a little rad when speaking of the opposition? Sorry, didn't mean to offend elenation. I do feel very strongly about the subject. I do feel outraged when I put the past 7 years of Bush's reign of terror into perspective and I admit that I am angry. So if I came on too strong, I apologize. I respect you too and one doesn't win over any potential votes by being totally obnoxious.

I believe you said it quite well laurenwhite. I used to like McCain too when I thought he was sounding more and more like a moderate who spoke the truth and bucked the machine. When he showed his true colors and sold out, like I believe Hillary Clinton sold out, I was very disappointed and he continues to disappoint me nearly every time he opens his mouth. Darn it!

I do look forward to the debates. I know they will each be coached to the gills, but it will be interesting to see them side by each.

And elenation is right, there's little doubt that I'm a Demo at heart. As much as I would like to think that I keep an open mind, when I find myself disagreeing wholeheartedly with everything the Republicans say and present to the world, it's pretty darned obvious who I am - and a Republican I'm not.

[BJean 16]

As for Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter, do people really listen to them and do what they say? That's a truly scary concept. I'll bet it's no different for Republicans if they think people embrace everything Michael Moore says is a fact.

[laurenwhite82 0]

Michael Moore for president....haha j/k!

[BJean 16]

LOL!!!

[plain 12]

As for Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter, do people really listen to them and do what they say? That's a truly scary concept. I'll bet it's no different for Republicans if they think people embrace everything Michael Moore says is a fact.

Yeah, Rush Limbaugh & Ann Coulter = Keith Olbermann & Randi Rhodes. They folks that are extreme are freaks.

BTW, McCain isn't refusing educational benefits for the troops. His proposal gives full benefits for a soldier that has 3 years of service and has seen combat. Other military (non-combatant jobs) would have benefits graded to years of service.

LaurenWhite......Are you seriously scolding McCain for taking money from the republicans?? Who backed out of the "Public funding Pledge"??

[ELENATION 0]

But you must admit hes become more and more aligned with the party views as November becomes closer and closer. He used to be pro-choice for the love of God. He definitely is no longer...Id call that a major flip. He used to bash the RNC for the way they took contributions from PACs and other "advocacy" groups. Now hes taking as much of their money as he can get so that he can run his campain. He also used to support the GI Bill...the one that he now opposes. The list goes on and on.

I could be mistaken but I don't think he was pro-choice, iI think he was always pro-life and in 1999 he said he thought Roe v. Wade should be overturned because he would support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is in danger, if I have this information right, this is a change of mind/heart, but I understand that when a politician does it, it looks like a flip flop, in reality, many people change their minds throughout their lifetimes about many things. He expressed his concerns for the GI Bill only regarding this particular issue and backed up his opinion explaining the reason why he felt that way, I'm sorry, but I don't see that as a flip flop, like I said, I think it's nomal that people reconsider issues as they learn more about them. About the RNC, honestly I'm not too familiar with that whole issue, but I will do my homework... what I do know is that politicians, from the left and the right are notorious for accepting contributions from wherever they can get it when they need it, it's not right, but very common, the most recent one from the left...Mrs.Clinton.. :cool2: and it's a good thing you brought up these points, it makes the discussion interesting, thanks!:thumbup:

Edited June 24, 2008 by ELENATION

[ELENATION 0]

Oops did I go a little rad when speaking of the opposition? Sorry, didn't mean to offend elenation. I do feel very strongly about the subject. I do feel outraged when I put the past 7 years of Bush's reign of terror into perspective and I admit that I am angry. So if I came on too strong, I apologize. I respect you too and one doesn't win over any potential votes by being totally obnoxious.

I believe you said it quite well laurenwhite. I used to like McCain too when I thought he was sounding more and more like a moderate who spoke the truth and bucked the machine. When he showed his true colors and sold out, like I believe Hillary Clinton sold out, I was very disappointed and he continues to disappoint me nearly every time he opens his mouth. Darn it!

I do look forward to the debates. I know they will each be coached to the gills, but it will be interesting to see them side by each.

And elenation is right, there's little doubt that I'm a Demo at heart. As much as I would like to think that I keep an open mind, when I find myself disagreeing wholeheartedly with everything the Republicans say and present to the world, it's pretty darned obvious who I am - and a Republican I'm not.

Thanks for those words BJ! and I can tell you are speaking from your heart and I appreciate that even if we can't agree, I feel like you, I try to be open minded, but it's hard, but I'm going to keep trying, darn it! for the sake of the good discussion!:thumbup:

[ELENATION 0]

As for Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter, do people really listen to them and do what they say? That's a truly scary concept. I'll bet it's no different for Republicans if they think people embrace everything Michael Moore says is a fact.

I enjoy listening to Limbaugh and GLenn Beck, that doesn't mean that I agree with everything they say, I hated when they were urging republicans not to vote for McCain and stay away from the polls, I could see why they felt that way, being that they are ultra conservatives and orthodox republicans, but I didn't agree with the method they were using to deliver their message,on other subjects I think they are right on:huh2:. THere are plenty of Michael Moore lovers out there who think he is a genious...yeah, scary...

Edited June 24, 2008 by ELENATION

[ELENATION 0]

Yeah, Rush Limbaugh & Ann Coulter = Keith Olbermann & Randi Rhodes. They folks that are extreme are freaks.

BTW, McCain isn't refusing educational benefits for the troops. His proposal gives full benefits for a soldier that has 3 years of service and has seen combat. Other military (non-combatant jobs) would have benefits graded to years of service.

LaurenWhite......Are you seriously scolding McCain for taking money from the republicans?? Who backed out of the "Public funding Pledge"??

Thank you for the explanation about the proposal, like I said before, I'm no expert on the subject, but I can see where they are coming from and actually I think it's pretty fair, he is not refusing educational benefits, the more I've learned about it, the more I believe that when Obama said he couldn't believe why McCain thought the bill was "too generous" to our veterans , Obama was just throwing a political punch , because it is clearly not what McCain was stating.

Edited June 24, 2008 by ELENATION

[ELENATION 0]

Michael Moore for president....haha j/k!

Oh No you didn't!!!:thumbup: I'll fight you!

:cool2::smile:

[BJean 16]

You're undoubtedly more knowledgeable about this than I am but I understood that the deal was that the Dems were wanting to up the benefits (money) for education assistance for honerably discharged military folks. The reason is because the amount that they were being allowed was seriously insufficient for the cost of college today. It was way outdated. McCain and Bush basically decided that they did not want to give our men and women who have served in the military anymore assistance for college than they were already eligible for. Obama backed the bill to up the ante.

When you put it into perspective, the number that was being suggested to help our veterans for furthering their education was a pittance compared to the money that we spend in Iraq each week. Now that just doesn't seem right or fair.

There have been other issues in a similar vein with regard to taking care of our military where Republicans didn't want to ensure that our military men and women are well taken care of after serving us - and in so many cases, risking life and limb. I do not understand how they have the gall to send our people to Iraq and Afghanistan - and potentially Iran and God knows where else - and then not be supportive of every opportunity to help these people when they return. It is a travesty and we shouldn't put up with it.

[ELENATION 0]

Well, there is concern that such an expansive GI Bill would create an incentive for troops to get out of the military... it could deplete retention rates among those currently serving in the military, from what I understand, they are working on an alternative to the bill that would provde incentives to join and stay in the military, I personally will look deeper to understand the issue more.., when McCain came out and said how he felt about this bill I'm sure he knew it could affect him during the campaign because the democrats would use it against him, (No offense guys, I'm referring to the democratic party here..)at least I give him credit for being honest about it and not just doing or saying what looked or sounded better, that's why I believe when he said that this was more than just a convenient campaign pledge for him, him being a veteran/POW I kind of believe he had earned the right to make that claim..... ok...do I sound biased?? :tongue2:Nah!

Edited June 24, 2008 by ELENATION