Dog rant

[anonemouse 1]

What is with all of these new "breeds" coming out lately? Labradoodles? Goldendoodles? Cute, yes. Breeds? No. They are MUTTS. Why spend hundreds of dollars on a MUTT? Go to the pound or the Humane Society and get an equally cute dog for under $100. Heck, look in your local newspaper, you can usually find them for free. Cuteness aside, it's still a mutt.

[blahblahblah 4]

agree...

Rain

[DonHoll1 0]

I love dogs and i think everyone should go to the pound if possible. There are so many that need homes. Donna

[wrk-n-prgrss 0]

A lot of pure breds have specific health issues associated with that breed. For instance labs have a tendency to get hip problems etc. We have a pure bred...but its because they docked his tail to short and they didnt want him because he wasnt show quality. So we took him...his imperfection makes him even cuter. We always had mutts growing up and us kids didnt know the difference or love them any less.

[anonemouse 1]

I love dogs and i think everyone should go to the pound if possible. There are so many that need homes. Donna

I'm a cat person myself, but I totally agree with buying or rescuing animals that need homes instead of going to breeders. I bought my Mouse (he's a Russian Blue, and his coat is mouse-gray, so hense the name - plus, I liked the idea of a cat named Mouse) from a veterinarian for 15 dollars (to cover the cost of his first shots). He would have either been euthanized or sent to a shelter. I've gotten three more from my folks. My dad's a veterinarian and is very weak when it comes to taking in homeless animals. One's a tabby that just showed up at the clinic one day, we found another at a city dump, and the third one is a formerly feral cat that we trapped at my parents' house. We had had a mother cat that had a couple of litters of kittens, so we were trying to catch her and the babies. We'd thought this one was a tomcat whenever we'd seen it before, but it turned out to be another nursing mother. Never did find her kittens, though. She looks EXACTLY like Mouse, so we named her Mini Mouse.

[anonemouse 1]

A lot of pure breds have specific health issues associated with that breed. For instance labs have a tendency to get hip problems etc. We have a pure bred...but its because they docked his tail to short and they didnt want him because he wasnt show quality. So we took him...his imperfection makes him even cuter. We always had mutts growing up and us kids didnt know the difference or love them any less.

Oh, yeah. Rottweilers, Great Danes, and other very large breeds have hip and other musculoskeletal problems. Dalmatians have hearing problems. Toy breads can have problems with hydrocephaly (especially chihuahuas that have been bred to be extremely tiny). Boston Terriers and other snub-nosed breeds have breathing problems. Some small breeds have problems with twisted limbs. You name it, any breed that you can think of will have genetic issues. Mutts are generally healthier because they have mixed bloodlines and aren't created from a very limited gene pool.

[chocolate_snaps 3]

There are so many sides to this issue. I see the merits of both. I desparately want a Labradoodle! But I cant have a dog right now...bummer. Ive even shopped around for one but when I found out the prices for some of these dogs, I gagged. I dont believe they are overpriced for mutts, that is missing the whole point. I believe they are overpriced for DOGS or cats. There are so many AKC registered Dogs up for adoption at breed rescue groups and sweet Mutts at the shelter. I also respect thatPeople have lots of reasons for wanting one of these dogs...Poodle mixes are (mostly) hypoallergenic without the maintainance of a pure Poodle, designer mixes are showy like purebreeds without the genetic defects from years of inbreeding. I had a seal point Himalayan (pointed Persian) die of a breed specific disease so I certainly understand the latter.

When I was a teenager I was a rescuer for NYCatRescue. At the same time I had a rescued purebred ChowChow and a purchased Himi. I have to admit I loved walking a former show dog.

I have 2 rescued cats one is a flame point Himalayan and the other is a recovering alleycat. The himi is from Petfinder the domestic is from Teaneck, NJ.

While I agree mostly I dont agree that these dogs are mutts, these new mixes are certainly breeds. Lots of recognized pure breeds started as mixes. That is why there are Boston Terriers and countless kinds of spaniels not to mention the whole spitz family. Crap I wouldnt even have my Himi. Himilayans are a cross of Persian and Siamese but are considered Persians and are the best of both.

The reputable people breeding these mixes are using time honored traditions in breed building by using award winning purebred base stock. After the initial crossing the offspring are only bred to other 1st or 2nd generation mixes, preserving the look and deversifiying the blood line. Mix breeders have even organized to form kennel clubs and breed standards. As a former rescuer and mom to 2 rescued cats I understand going to the shelter. Im also a lover of purebreds and mixes like Labradooles and Cockapoos. I guess that makes me an animal lover!

side question: is this from Perez Hiltons Goldendoodle post?<br /> <br /> Aww I love Russian Blues there is nothing like a true blue coat...stunning.

[anonemouse 1]

There are so many sides to this issue. I see the merits of both. I desparately want a Labradoodle! But I cant have a dog right now...bummer. Ive even shopped around for one but when I found out the prices for some of these dogs, I gagged. I dont believe they are overpriced for mutts, that is missing the whole point. I believe they are overpriced for DOGS or cats. There are so many AKC registered Dogs up for adoption at breed rescue groups and sweet Mutts at the shelter. I also respect thatPeople have lots of reasons for wanting one of these dogs...Poodle mixes are (mostly) hypoallergenic without the maintainance of a pure Poodle, designer mixes are showy like purebreeds without the genetic defects from years of inbreeding. I had a seal point Himalayan (pointed Persian) die of a breed specific disease so I certainly understand the latter.

When I was a teenager I was a rescuer for NYCatRescue. At the same time I had a rescued purebred ChowChow and a purchased Himi. I have to admit I loved walking a former show dog.

I have 2 rescued cats one is a flame point Himalayan and the other is a recovering alleycat. The himi is from Petfinder the domestic is from Teaneck, NJ.

While I agree mostly I dont agree that these dogs are mutts, these new mixes are certainly breeds. Lots of recognized pure breeds started as mixes. That is why there are Boston Terriers and countless kinds of spaniels not to mention the whole spitz family. Crap I wouldnt even have my Himi. Himilayans are a cross of Persian and Siamese but are considered Persians and are the best of both.

The reputable people breeding these mixes are using time honored traditions in breed building by using award winning purebred base stock. After the initial crossing the offspring are only bred to other 1st or 2nd generation mixes, preserving the look and deversifiying the blood line. Mix breeders have even organized to form kennel clubs and breed standards. As a former rescuer and mom to 2 rescued cats I understand going to the shelter. Im also a lover of purebreds and mixes like Labradooles and Cockapoos. I guess that makes me an animal lover!

side question: is this from Perez Hiltons Goldendoodle post?<br /> <br /> Aww I love Russian Blues there is nothing like a true blue coat...stunning.

Yep, that's where I got the rant from. :biggrin1:

I LOVE my Mouse. He's the first animal that I've gotten on my own, that was mine, not my family's. He's a giant baby, too.

Personally, I feel that a "breed" is only legitimate if it breeds true to the breed. And I just don't think most of the newer breeds have enough breeding history and enough generations of true breeding behind them to be legitimate. I mean, they're cute and a LOT healthier than their purebred cousins, but they just aren't true breeds at this point. Know what I mean? Maybe in another 50 or so years, but not right now. If you cross a purebred himalayan with another purebred himalayan, you'll get himalayan kittens. You don't get a few that look like himalayans, a few that look like persians, and a few that look siamese. So to me, the himalayan breed is a true breed, unlike many of the newer variations. Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I'm speaking any sense, since it's so late here.

[chocolate_snaps 3]

Yeah I thought about that and that is kind of true that they dont "breed true" but the term is subjective because certain breeds of cat are allowed to cross breed and offspring of different color or coat lengths are different breeds, where as the AKC allows no crossing. Yet in calling their animals "breeds" they assume that the animals are "breed true". Also the AKC excludes color defects in "breed true" animals. If the a "breed true" animal produces a color anomaly how is it still considered "breed true" when the color is not a recognized trait of the breed. In my opinion that would make the term "breed true" in so far as it relates to dogs a little suspicious and almost arbitrary. The definition should be consistant.

Since defects arise in "breed true" breeds the consistancy the term assumes is also a bit untrue. How else would there be so many sizes of poodle but only one breed.

Im sure you are right that the new mixes may be classified as :breed true" later than sooner, they have to start somewhere. But I dont really buy the term in this case.

Look I put my Himi as my avatar...so cute. His name is Mr.Baby so creative I know <img src="http://www.LapBandTalk.com/images/smilies/wink.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" smilieid="5" class="inlineimg" />

[anonemouse 1]

Yeah I thought about that and that is kind of true that they dont "breed true" but the term is subjective because certain breeds of cat are allowed to cross breed and offspring of different color or coat lengths are different breeds, where as the AKC allows no crossing. Yet in calling their animals "breeds" they assume that the animals are "breed true". Also the AKC excludes color defects in breed true" animals. If the a "breed true" animal produces a color anomaly how is it still considered "breed true" when the color is not a recognized trait of the breed. In my opinion that would make the term "breed true" in so far as it relates to dogs a little suspicious and almost arbitrary. The definition should be consistant.

Since defects arise in "breed true" breeds the consistancy the term assumes is also a bit untrue. How else would there be so many sizes of poodle but only one breed.

Im sure you are right that the new mixes may be classified as "breed true" later than sooner but they have to start somewhere. But I dont really buy the term in this case.

Look I put my Himi as my avatar...so cute. His name is Mr.Baby so creative I know

That's true, but there's generally an acceptable level of variation, right? I mean, you're going to have some level of variation within a breed that is natural, it's just a matter of genetics. You'll have recessive genes that pop up every so often and cause the variation. But unless you can say with mostly certain accuracy that the offspring that are produced when you cross two purebred members of the same breed are all going to look like their parents, I just don't think you can reasonably call it a breed. I mean, if you cross two golden retrievers, you may get one or two offspring that are a slightly funky color or slightly smaller or larger than is the accepted "breed standard," but you aren't going to get offspring that looks like a bulldog. That's basically what I was referring to with breeding true. With these new "breeds," if you cross two labradoodles, you might get some offspring that look like labradors, some that look like poodles, and some that look like labradoodles. To me, at least, that's a higher than acceptable level of variation to be considered a true breed.

I dunno. I think it's all screwed up, to a certain extent.

[anonemouse 1]

Could you put a picture of your baby in a post? I can't really make out much in avatars.

We had a himalayan that we had to put down within the last year. He was a sweet heart. He lived at my dad's clinic, and would be mostly free to wander around the clinic. My dad used to cut his fur in a lion cut because he HATED to be brushed. We think one of his past owners probably waited too long to brush him, so he got a lot of mats that were very painful to brush out, and that's why he was brush-shy.

[chocolate_snaps 3]

I think its that the term assumes abosolute certainty rather than almost certainty. For me thats the sticking point. Also Goldies arent related to Bulldogs breed wise. Dogs more closely related may produce out of breed pups like a Staffordshire Bull Terrier may sire a Pitbull. They are very very closely related but are not the same breed according to the AKC who are the breed detirming bodies in this country. However in other kennel clubs claim that they are the same breed. So it seems to me that it is a question of who is the validating entity. It all boils down to politics and we all know how corrupt those are. <br /> Its the funky details that matter or at least should. Everything down to how many inches a dog is can detirmine if it is within breed standard. You could get an overly large Huskie and the only thing that keeps it from being a Malamute is its lineage. <br /> <br /> Side not: There are all sorts of genetic testing to insure the most consistant litters using science to do what luck used to. Its pretty cool really.

I have to figure out how to resize the images i will sure post them once I do.

[chocolate_snaps 3]

Im so sorry about your himi my first one died a few years ago. We were close to putting down my first one but he couldnt make it, he died in my arms minutes before we left for the vet. They did cremate him for no charge which was nice.

When I adopted Mr.Baby I made sure that he didnt have the same disease.

[Jachut 487]

I do have a giggle over people paying lots of money for mutts, lol.

I'm no dog lover, more a cat person myself and the two cats we've had we've rescued from an animal shelter.

Trouble is both of them have been psycho, sick and not good pets. Both have loooooooved me, and me alone and not given a toss about the rest of the family, which is what you get with cats.

But our first cat Rocky was seriously mentally scarred, who knows what had happened to him before we got him and he had a tendency to attack visciously without provocation, he spent his life in the back of a wardrobe and he ended up dying of kidney failure at only 5 years old.

Our second cat Lady is more even in temparament but still a bit strange, but she has had chlamydia and has problems becuase of that - weepy eyes and she can get literally hundreds of mouth ulcers at a time, she gets very stressed and is really timid. She also has feline aids. So she's 7 now but not in for a really long life probably.

That's the trouble - you rescue them and I feel good to have done it but they come with a lot of problems when you dont know their history and chances are shelter animals have been sick or mistreated and will bear the scars. What better to rescue an animal in need but the trouble is they're not necessarily going to make a good pet and it can hit the hip pocket very hard too.

[anonemouse 1]

I think its that the term assumes abosolute certainty rather than almost certainty. For me thats the sticking point. Also Goldies arent related to Bulldogs breed wise. Dogs more closely related may produce out of breed pups like a Staffordshire Bull Terrier may sire a Pitbull. They are very very closely related but are not the same breed according to the AKC who are the breed detirming bodies in this country. However in other kennel clubs claim that they are the same breed. So it seems to me that it is a question of who is the validating entity. It all boils down to politics and we all know how corrupt those are. <br /> Its the funky details that matter or at least should. Everything down to how many inches a dog is can detirmine if it is within breed standard. You could get an overly large Huskie and the only thing that keeps it from being a Malamute is its lineage. <br /> <br /> Side not: There are all sorts of genetic testing to insure the most consistant litters using science to do what luck used to. Its pretty cool really.

I have to figure out how to resize the images i will sure post them once I do.

They might not be a showable example of the breed, but they are still considered that breed, though. I mean, they'd be considered pet-quality by the breeders, correct? They might not have the exact measurements or coloration of the breed standard, but they have the general over-all appearance of the breed they were produced from. I think we're debating two different aspects, really. I'm talking about the breed as a whole, not considering show-quality, that kind of thing. Just your general every-day breed. I think you are talking more about the actual show regulations.