I don't understand (goal weight rant)

[Jachut 487]

Originally Posted by WASaBubbleButt

Beauty comes in all sizes, I'd have to disagree with you that health comes in all sizes. To claim one can be obese and healthy is simply not true. It's the starting point for many issues that are not the least bit healthy even if those issues haven't shown themselves yet.

That I totally believe and is what I was saying in the beginning.

Obese is not as healthy as you could be and there is simply nothing you can say to refute that. As far as your health is concerned, you are settling for mediocre. It is healthIER than morbidly obese, but you are still at risk of diabetes, heart disease and early death and more than that, nearly everyone gains as they get older and they lose muscle and their metabolism slows. Its part of aging. The likelihood of becoming morbidly or seriously obese again is quite high when you have not achieved a healthy BMI.

Beauty now - that is totally in the eye of the beholder. I can think of plenty of people who I think are stunning who are overweight or obese, just as I can think of many normal weight people whose looks I dont envy. And losing weight has not made me anymore than what I already was, a normal, average looking person. Perhaps I radiate more attractiveness becuase of the way I feel about myself and because I fit the mold more than I did before, but I still have crappy hair, would like nicer skin and hate the fact that I'm getting older.

Those are perhaps the two things that make me even care about this issue - the fact that people simply are not seeing the ultimate reward for their hard work and the fact that they kid themselves that they're healthy becuase they appear "pretty normal", "not too fat" in a society where obesity is probably our biggest killer.

What do I base that on? The fact that when I had surgery at 245lb, it was totally cosmetic - I loathed the way I looked, I felt fat, frumpy and old and totally and utterly unattractive. What's blown me away? That I didnt realise how absolutely terrible I felt. I cannot believe the levels of energy and wellbeing I have now, I was a complete slug in my former life and I just didnt know it. I thought everyone felt that way. Its like my son and his asthma, there's no point asking a 12 year old asthmatic if he feels normal because he's never had any other experience than being terribly asthmatic. He just doesnt know that normal for him - tired, out of sorts, breathless, isnt how everyone feels. Its the same with being obese when you've always been - you may feel loads better than you did at 300+lb but you just dont realise how freaking GREAT you could feel. 20, 40 more lbs, it DOES make a big difference, probably more than the first 50 did.

Other than that, I am not going to argue that its more beautiful to be thinner, I've never thought that or said it.

[phyllisc 0]

Wasa, I am not passive aggressive. I say what I mean, but I am not mean. People make their own choice to push themselves as hard and as fast as they want. However, not everyone wants to push that hard and fast. I am a laid back person, I do things in a roundabout way. It works better for me that way. I admire people who can and do push themselves to achieve their goals. It is just not something that I want to do. But I am willing to take as long as it takes. I am not going to give up, but I am a turtle for many reasons so I am not going to make myself unhappy because I am not losing faster. I make comprimises, and I pay the consequenses and I enjoy all the little things along the way. I really do try to see things from every perspective and point of view.

I don't like to see people put down or made to feel that they are not doing enough and frankly there is quite a bit of it in this post. I have nothing against thin people, fit people, beautiful people or any thing inbetween. I love beautiful people as a matter of fact, at least from an artistic point of view. I can not speak for anyone else but I am not jealous of anyone for any reason.

I struggle with my own issues, such as food addiction!!!!! People who conquer those issues give me hope.

I felt like some people who responded to this thread felt bad about some of the things said. I have a big mouth, I jump in and try to offer support when this happens.

[Jachut 487]

Well I totally agree with you there - I was the same. I hate calorie counting and dieting, I did not want to do it that way and I was a fairly slow loser, its taken me the better part of 2 years to lose 88lb or so.

Its not about doing the impossible!

[Alexandra 55]

To stop at OK, easyish, good enough, it just doesnt bring the same, I dont know, complete satisfaction, you know?

Its not about "running" its about pushing yourself further than you ever dared to go, ever dreamed you could go.

When people just cant see the reward that comes for finding the courage to do that, that's frustrating to me.

But the sheer awesome achievement of it at the end (oh, and the endorphin rush when it kicked in), I've scarcely talked about anything else since.

Surely you have an almost unreal fealing of "my god, I've actaully DONE it!! All that painful calorie counting, self denial, etc etc, I've actually DONE it!". Because you have. To stop halfway to that, well I can accept that people *think* the end doesnt justify the means, but I think they dont really quite understand the feelings it brings.

Its not the act that's joyous, its the achievement, the mastery over your own body and the mental breaking down of barriers.

Jacqui, you're describing YOUR reactions to having achieved something you never thought could be possible. Not everyone reacts that way, even when they have achieved something extraordinary. Not everyone gets a rush from competing with themselves, challenging themselves and conquering. It's just your personality, and it's simply not shared by everyone. Is that really so hard to understand?

That said, you and Chickie and Wasa and everyone else who has worked the band so beautifully are total inspirations to me. Because you make me see that whatever we consider our personal goals to be, they are achievable. That's the take-home lesson.

[nina874 48]

****Beauty comes in all sizes, I'd have to disagree with you that health comes in all sizes. To claim one can be obese and healthy is simply not true.****

Just to throw the cat in the pigeons so to speak - Define obese, which santitized chart are we all using here? Which drummed up generality is it that we are all straining to achieve?

And just to ruffle feathers even further, there are actually PLENTY of healthy issues that you can have if you are a 'normal' - dont you just hate that word - weight range, that you may not have if you had a different lifestyle and were obese.

And just for a final one what utter twonk to say that you cant be healthy with a BMI ( which is what I assume you are alll going off) of 35. I am staggered at the level of ignorance that is being shown. Please define healthy for me??? Healthy using what yard stick ? Blood pressure, cholesterol??? Just what paramters are defining these statements?

Nina

PS sorry to use your words again jachut nothing personal.

[green 6]

I am 5'6" tall, currently weigh 149 lbs and have a healthy BMI. I weighed 200 lbs when I have the band installed last September. My prime motivation was simple vanity. Now, because of my particular body type I still wear a size 10 pant and an XL sweater, just as some of you who weigh 20 lbs more than I do. This is because although I am slim in the hips and legs I have a thick waist and broad shoulders. And at my age I don't like to wear anything too clingy! I guess you all have now figured out that I have provided the boring details of my height, weight, and clothing size in order to point out that different people really are built differently.

I do believe, too, that some people are built to carry more weight than others. At my skinniest I managed to drop to 129 lbs but only for an hour or so; the 130s were the norm for this grrl. Life did not design me for a career in Hollywood or on a catwalk.

What the comments in this thread are saying is that weight is an issue which is both objective and subjective. It may be possible to wear a size 18 or 20 and be a very healthy and happy woman. I did not notice any changes in my health apart from improved cholesterol readings when I lost 50 lbs. My blood pressure was good and remains unchanged. I was as flexible then as I am now. My energy levels are the same. The only difference for me is emotional; I think I look better and so I am happier about myself. I can shop in normo stores and look good in my clothes. I get compliments. Like I said at the beginning of this post, for me it was all about vanity.

At the same time I must confess that there is a part of me who still thinks that I am the fat grrl that I used to be. I am finding that it takes awhile for the head to adjust.

[Kat817 19]

Many times in many threads, I have referred to the fact, that I have not made many of the changes that some of you at goal have. I have stated that I am not willing to make that much change at this point in my life. The phrase I commonly use, is that I am not willing to give up my todays for a possible tomorrow. By that I mean, I am not one of you who is willing to cut calories to a bare minimum and exercise for hours each day until I get to goal, then relax a bit and enjoy it.

I DO understand how difficult that may be for some of you to understand. It has to be as frustrating as trying to get a 2 year old to taste something you know they will like, and will be good for them, and they just clamp their mouths shut!

We all come at the decision to try the band, from different directions.

From those experiences, we developed different feelings towards our weight, our appearance, and our lives in general. As a woman who has been nearly 300 pounds, and bald as a cue ball, with skin a deathly gray, living with cancer--to be 185 pounds, and have nice skin (although more wrinkled than I would choose!), and my hair grew back. I was happy. Will it be nice to be at the goal weight I chose? Sure. Is it the most important thing to me? Not in the slightest.

I recently found out I have another battle to fight with the cancer beast, a minor one...in the overall scheme of things, but still a setback. Do I regret the days I took my granddaughters to get ice cream cones, and had one with them? Not at all---that was my fear--THIS is my fear----that yes the band would work, and I would struggle, and not eat with my family and put all my attention in that direction, and forget to enjoy each day with them, and then possibly not have the tomorrow with them.

I know me. I tend to fixate. If I begin counting calories---I stress putting a single thing in my mouth I do not know the count on. I have to force myself to be moderate with many things---this being one of them!

How long it will take me to get to my goal, I really have no idea, and when I get there, I may change it. I may never actually get to the exact number on the scale. I do know my weight loss journey is not over. But I find my journey being more of a cross country long distance race---up some really wicked hills lately!--more than a sprint race. It will happen, and I am glad there are bandsters coming around that HAVE made goal, regardless what the goal is. If your goal is to be 100 pounds or 200 pounds, knowing it can be done and is being done, is an assurance that I too will get there.

Kat

[green 6]

Great post, Kat817. I always do enjoy listening to what you have to say.

I am very sorry to hear that you will be stuck in another brawl with that cancer beast. I trust that you will defeat it quickly. Keep us in the loop, will you? :boink:

[nina874 48]

I am so sorry Kat that you are fighting the cancer beast again ((((hugs))) please let us know how you are. I hope that you batter it into submission soon.

I will take my inspiration from you Kat, you arent just a band hero, you are a life hero.

Nina x

[Kat817 19]

My grandma (I miss her more than words can say) swore til her dying breath, or cough, more exactly, that her smoking had not impeded her health in any manner! I know there come a time in the last couple of years of her life, that she had to realize that simply was not true---but at that point we had a quality vs. quantity issue. If she quit smoking then, she still was not going to live another healthy 20 years. It boiled down to the fact that her smoking was something she enjoyed, and the stress and difficulty associated with quitting smoking, was quite simply not worth it. We left her be, we left her smoking and smiling!

I realize weight is a different issue, we are comparing apples to oranges....but I do realize what you are saying--and in my mind it relates to the smoking. When I quit 16 years ago, cold turkey, no one thought I could do it---even me at times. But I did! My quality of life improved, and I was proud of being able to say I had quit. I found all kinds of improvements in my life personally, as well as like I say being very proud of what I did. But that did squat as far as helping me convince my best friend to try again to quit!!! She smoked for 16 more years, finally quitting last year!

We know that the extra weight is not healthy for us. Smokers know the cigarettes are bad. We have all heard we need to relax, that stress will kill us....and about all we do is stress over that too! I think it is a personal point you reach, or may never reach for that matter. When you take charge and either lose the weight, or ditch the smokes....whatever. Just like you decided you really could be happy enough in your current home. Right now I am happy enough in my current body. I hope like you do with your house to follow through and acheive what I want to do---but it is not of the utmost importance right this time.

Thanks so much for the well wishes. Will keep you all posted on how things go.

Kat

[Jachut 487]

Oh, you saw it, lol. I deleted it again because I figured, its more personal than I need to share and anyway, what's the point in continuing to argue? You make a completely valid point, you cant convince someone else to try it, it is indeed exactly like a 2 year old claming their mouth shut.

And if everyone is really as emotionally disconnected from their weight loss or other life battles as Alexandra suggests, if I'm really the only one who feels elated at winning a battle, well I'm talking to a brick wall. If that's the truth well then I really am just from an entirely different planet.

[Chickie 15]

****Beauty comes in all sizes, I'd have to disagree with you that health comes in all sizes. To claim one can be obese and healthy is simply not true.****

Just to throw the cat in the pigeons so to speak - Define obese, which santitized chart are we all using here? Which drummed up generality is it that we are all straining to achieve?

And just to ruffle feathers even further, there are actually PLENTY of healthy issues that you can have if you are a 'normal' - dont you just hate that word - weight range, that you may not have if you had a different lifestyle and were obese.

And just for a final one what utter twonk to say that you cant be healthy with a BMI ( which is what I assume you are alll going off) of 35. I am staggered at the level of ignorance that is being shown. Please define healthy for me??? Healthy using what yard stick ? Blood pressure, cholesterol??? Just what paramters are defining these statements?

Nina

PS sorry to use your words again jachut nothing personal.

There is a world of difference in quality of life between a BMI of 35 and where I am now.

It's my ankles not swelling in the heat, it's not dying of heat exhaustion when it gets of 25*c, my knee not hurting after a day on my feet, it's my sugar and insulin being normal, its my thighs not rubbing together and causing a rash, it's sleeping better, my asthma improving, not being worried about breaking chairs, its about physically capable of doing everything I need to do, mowing the lawn (by myself, we own 1/4th of an acre, and mow the next door neighbours too, so I mow a total of 1/2 an acre) I keep up with my kid, or rather, he tries to keep up with me now, aside form all the other health issues that go along with being overweight, or morbidly obese, and while your sugar, cholesterol, and blood pressure may be fine now, that will not last forever...Very, very few people can manage to be perfectly healthy and MO at the same time.

There is a world of difference. Truthfully, I didn't know what I was missing till I had the things I was missing out on.

And it's true, you can be unhealthy and be thin. BUT is is much more likely that someone who is MO will have a huge range of health issues.

The chart most of us are going on is the very same one the medical profession is using. The same one your doctor is likely to be using.. And the reason it is a weight rage is a "range" is to accommodate the different body types.

For the record, I actually love the word normal. Normal is highly under rated.

[Alexandra 55]

Kat, best wishes with your next breast-battle. Here's hoping that it's minor and easily whipped!

And if everyone is really as emotionally disconnected from their weight loss or other life battles as Alexandra suggests, if I'm really the only one who feels elated at winning a battle, well I'm talking to a brick wall. If that's the truth well then I really am just from an entirely different planet.

My goodness, emotionally disconnected--that's not at all what I meant to say. I meant to say that it may be OTHER things that give people a charge rather than what gives you a charge. (I'm more of a team-player kind of person. I get really excited, for example, when something I've worked on with a group of others comes off without a hitch, such as a conference.)

What gives you joy--"pushing yourself further than you ever dared to go"--just isn't something I've ever focused on, and just because I'm trying to lose weight that's not going to automatically change. Why should that make anyone think I'm selling myself short? That's what I don't get. I have no interest in winning a battle, or even engaging in one. Different strokes for different folks.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

****Beauty comes in all sizes, I'd have to disagree with you that health comes in all sizes. To claim one can be obese and healthy is simply not true.****

Just to throw the cat in the pigeons so to speak - Define obese, which santitized chart are we all using here? Which drummed up generality is it that we are all straining to achieve?

And just to ruffle feathers even further, there are actually PLENTY of healthy issues that you can have if you are a 'normal' - dont you just hate that word - weight range, that you may not have if you had a different lifestyle and were obese.

And just for a final one what utter twonk to say that you cant be healthy with a BMI ( which is what I assume you are alll going off) of 35. I am staggered at the level of ignorance that is being shown. Please define healthy for me??? Healthy using what yard stick ? Blood pressure, cholesterol??? Just what paramters are defining these statements?

Nina

PS sorry to use your words again jachut nothing personal.

The stats prove my case. The bigger you are the more chance you have of heart disease, diabetes, etc. Are you seriously claiming weight doesn't affect health? Honestly? If you are, I will ask you to defend your claims. Show me the proof that being obese or seriously obese is not a health risk. Show me the studies. Otherwise I am going to come out and say that you are in denial.

As a general range only and not absolute specifics as there are things that make a difference such as body builders who have MASSIVE amounts of muscle and virtually no excess body fat, a BMI is not a good indicator of their healthy weight range. But for the general population you can figure:

A BMI of 18-25 is in the normal range, the healthy range.

25-29 is overweight

30-34 is obese

35-39 is severely obese

40-49 is morbidly obese

50+ is malignantly obese

Ask around this forum how many people are diabetic or borderline diabetic. Ask how many people were diabetic and now that their weight is in the normal range they are no longer on diabetes meds. Ask about their health improvements with weight loss.

I read you to say that weight is not an indication of health and that is a bunch of hooey. It's a HUGE issue. The Aussie socialized medicine folks are claiming that obesity is causing them to go bankrupt. You think that is because fat folks are healthy? They are damned expensive to their socialized medicine. Want an article? Here you go:

http://www.lapbandtalk.com/f80/obesity-could-bankrupt-nhs-uk-43755/

As for being thin and unhealthy, that's a cop out. That's like saying it's okay to spend 856 trillion dollars on cleaning dog poop in city parks because we waste money somewhere else too. One has nothing to do with the other. Fat people and thin people can get hit by a truck too. That has NOTHING in the world to do with the risk one has by being fat.

Bottom line, if you want healthy badly enough, you'll do what it takes. If you don't care, you won't do what it takes. You have to want it. If you don't that is your choice. But to tell us that weight isn't an issue for a HUGE number of health issues is denial, plain and simple.

[Jachut 487]

I just have to say I think you're wrong Nina. There's no other way to put it. You're just not making sense. Obese is obese. Its perfectly acceptable to want to be that way but you cannot, absolutely cannot justify it as healthy. Statistically speaking, it isnt. I'm in Australia and you're in America but like wasa says, here, with our system, you get treated no matter who you are. And i'd have MUCH to say about my taxes paying for your denial down the track. I see it as no different than smoking or using a sunbed, you're going to have health issues, nothing surer and its going to cost taxpayers money.

Alexandra, if people just dont want to push boundaries and aim high for themselves in all areas of their lives then I just have to accept that. I cannot pretend to understand that and I'm sorry but I cannot pretend to have a lot of admiration for it either, I just cannot. Whether its to do with weight or not, to me it is settling for mediocrity. I'd much rather try and fail than not try.

I can accept that you dont agree with me (and I know that perception isnt reality, so what I think aint necessarily so), but I'm really confused - Are you seriously saying to me that you didnt even care about winning that battle?. Your idea and mine of winning may be different, but you took action, you fought and you came to a position that you were happy with. So what you're saying makes no sense at all to me