Random Thoughts On The Looming Debacle...

[DerickM 1]

Universal Healthcare.

You hear about all the time.

It's coming, whether you are ready for it or not.

Its become the new 'basic right' of the political talkers.

Even this terminology is a lie. Healthcare, paid for by somebody else, is not a right.

This is an entitlement.

A right is free to all, to be guaranteed and safeguarded by The Power, and costs a third party nothing.

Test this idea yourself.

Does the right to free speech guarantee a taxpayer funded newspaper on every doorstep?

Does the right to bear arms mean the government is obligated to provide guns and ammo?

I'm not opposed to universal health care. Who could be against something like that, anyway.

What I'm opposed to is government run health care dressed up in bullshit terminology.

A pig by any other name is still a pig.

And calling socialism "universal" is still socialism.

What will be the effect of socializing the health care industry?

What makes people think that the same government that couldn't keep a bridge from falling down can do medicine right?

It sounds like a stretch to compare bridges to medicine, but in my view the stretch is in the other direction.

Bridges, and their construction, are science. Exact. Precise. We know for sure what it takes to keep it in the air. There's not much guess work involved. It'll either work, or not.

Medicine is not so simple. As much art as it is science, lots of educated guesswork is involved in getting a diagnosis right. And what cures most, wont cure all.

Who ya gonna blame, who will be accountable, when a misdiagnoses is made?

When talented, and gifted, professionals decide the govt isn't worth dealing with anymore, who will pay the costs in lost lives? New medicines not discovered? New techniques not tried?

Will the government set pay scales for doctors? Most definitely. Part of government control involves price fixing. Strange ain't it? We like our baseball players to get paid monstrous salaries which leads to ever greater perfection of their craft, but haven't stopped to consider what price controls would do to the future of medicine.

Will there be price controls on how much lawyers get paid suing doctors? Somehow, I doubt that, since it will be lawyers ultimately writing, and approving, the legislation.

How many lives have lawyers saved? How many new cancer breakthroughs are discovered in a courtroom?

Can you show me one person brought back from the brink of death by John Edwards? Given this,can you really justify his level of wealth compared to any doctor?

Will the lawmakers be served under the same health care coverage? Or will there be one system for them, and one for us, like it is now?

Can any senator rightfully, and morally, claim that he deserves better care than any one member of our military? Well, they currently do now. You really think this will change when we go to government medicine?

For me, there is only one over riding principle when deciding health care policy: The most good, to the most people, for the longest length of time.

And there ain't no way in hell I'm going to trust this to the same people who couldn't deliver Water to their own in the Superdome.

[marnie723 0]

Funny how the idea of universal health care can be so confusing/scary for the US but yet if we were to look at all the other Countries that use it and successfully it sort of makes the American fears of it seem sort of......well, laughable really.

[wrk-n-prgrss 0]

I dont know what the answer is. The heatlh care system now as it is ....its corrupt and unethical and profit driven. I am part of that shrinking middle class. We own 2 businesses. Our income level is comfortable, but we cannot find health insurance coverage. Before my band, all the policies offered to us as self employed individuals lacked any real coverage and are very expensive. We have taken these policies over the years and paid the deductible, copay, and premium, only to have our claims rejected over and over for various illigetimate reasons. Now that I am banded I cannot get coverage. I can buy a policy that has a rider on it excluding anything band related for x amount of time and then pay a very high premium for this lack of coverage. That means if my gall bladder goes they can decide its band related and not cover the gall bladder. So as it stands now..I will have to go back into the workforce and take time away from my family and our businesses to get group coverage healthcare. (thats the only place I wont be rejected). I am even considering Starbucks because at 20 hours a week you qualify for health care coverage. I wont be crazy about the schedule as you have to work any day and night and weekend. So childcare will be a challenge with that type of schedule. We have worked hard and built our businesses up over the years..and I could be at some teenager with acne's whims over my working life....all over healthcare.

[kagoscuba 0]

<p>You are kidding, right? how many Canadians cross the border to get health-care each year because they have to wait too long in Canada? Tens of thousands. </p> <p> </p> <p>When I lived in Germany I found out about "Universal" health care. For the poor, it is a boon. Why should they work harder to be able to afford something that is given to them for free? For everyone else, it was crap. If you wanted a particular doctor or the ability to not be 6 to a room in a hospital, you had to buy supplemental private insurance. Considering the income tax rate was 47%, buying more insurance is a tad tough on the wallet. </p> <p> </p> <p>Socialism benefits the lazy, while frustrating the driven. Social Darwinism is not an affront; it is a reality, once all the facades are proven false.</p>

[wrk-n-prgrss 0]

<p>You are kidding, right? how many Canadians cross the border to get health-care each year because they have to wait too long in Canada? Tens of thousands. </p> <p> </p> <p>When I lived in Germany I found out about "Universal" health care. For the poor, it is a boon. Why should they work harder to be able to afford something that is given to them for free? For everyone else, it was crap. If you wanted a particular doctor or the ability to not be 6 to a room in a hospital, you had to buy supplemental private insurance. Considering the income tax rate was 47%, buying more insurance is a tad tough on the wallet. </p> <p> </p> <p>Socialism benefits the lazy, while frustrating the driven. Social Darwinism is not an affront; it is a reality, once all the facades are proven false.</p>

Are you responding to my post? I dont want to reply if you arent...I am still getting used to LBT. The notice I get in my email says that you responded to this thread..not my comment in particular.

[ELENATION 0]

Universal Healthcare.

You hear about all the time.

It's coming, whether you are ready for it or not.

Its become the new 'basic right' of the political talkers.

Even this terminology is a lie. Healthcare, paid for by somebody else, is not a right.

This is an entitlement.

A right is free to all, to be guaranteed and safeguarded by The Power, and costs a third party nothing.

Test this idea yourself.

Does the right to free speech guarantee a taxpayer funded newspaper on every doorstep?

Does the right to bear arms mean the government is obligated to provide guns and ammo?

I'm not opposed to universal health care. Who could be against something like that, anyway.

What I'm opposed to is government run health care dressed up in bullshit terminology.

A pig by any other name is still a pig.

And calling socialism "universal" is still socialism.

What will be the effect of socializing the health care industry?

What makes people think that the same government that couldn't keep a bridge from falling down can do medicine right?

It sounds like a stretch to compare bridges to medicine, but in my view the stretch is in the other direction.

Bridges, and their construction, are science. Exact. Precise. We know for sure what it takes to keep it in the air. There's not much guess work involved. It'll either work, or not.

Medicine is not so simple. As much art as it is science, lots of educated guesswork is involved in getting a diagnosis right. And what cures most, wont cure all.

Who ya gonna blame, who will be accountable, when a misdiagnoses is made?

When talented, and gifted, professionals decide the govt isn't worth dealing with anymore, who will pay the costs in lost lives? New medicines not discovered? New techniques not tried?

Will the government set pay scales for doctors? Most definitely. Part of government control involves price fixing. Strange ain't it? We like our baseball players to get paid monstrous salaries which leads to ever greater perfection of their craft, but haven't stopped to consider what price controls would do to the future of medicine.

Will there be price controls on how much lawyers get paid suing doctors? Somehow, I doubt that, since it will be lawyers ultimately writing, and approving, the legislation.

How many lives have lawyers saved? How many new cancer breakthroughs are discovered in a courtroom?

Can you show me one person brought back from the brink of death by John Edwards? Given this,can you really justify his level of wealth compared to any doctor?

Will the lawmakers be served under the same health care coverage? Or will there be one system for them, and one for us, like it is now?

Can any senator rightfully, and morally, claim that he deserves better care than any one member of our military? Well, they currently do now. You really think this will change when we go to government medicine?

For me, there is only one over riding principle when deciding health care policy: The most good, to the most people, for the longest length of time.

And there ain't no way in hell I'm going to trust this to the same people who couldn't deliver Water to their own in the Superdome.

I'M THERE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 100%

[ELENATION 0]

Funny how the idea of universal health care can be so confusing/scary for the US but yet if we were to look at all the other Countries that use it and successfully it sort of makes the American fears of it seem sort of......well, laughable really.

I'm sorry, but other countries who have universal health care cannot use it so successful... some may, some people may, but overall....not really...

And I don't think that universal health care is an america's fear..... simply some people like it and some don't and it will be decided by the votes for american's favorite candidates.... laughable? don't see why? but I respect your opinion....

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

While I agree with the original post completely, I find that I'm starting to feel like it's time to give up and give in.

As it stands now only those with jobs pay for all the freebie health care. Those who do nothing, sit on their butts, do drugs all day long, feed off welfare... they'll finally be paying a portion too, as in sales tax.

No, I don't think our gov't is smart enough to handle the job but the reality is that we are doing it anyway but just a select few are paying for it. At least with socialized medicine even those on welfare as a career will have to pay a portion of their own life's expenses.

Let's face it people, we already HAVE socialized medicine. Go to any county hospital with a sore throat and see if you are turned away. You won't be. You'll be asked to pay but if you say no, they send you on your way. It's already here, we have it. We HAVE socialized medicine. It's just that a select few are paying for it. So let's just go for it and get it over with.

For me... I continue to go to Mexico. I suspect I have a gallbladder issue and my insurance deductibles and copays are so high it's cheaper to go to Mexico and pay cash by a doctor I trust and a hospital that is cleaner than most US hospitals. I plan on getting all my dental care there, I plan on getting everything there when possible. My surgeon is in Mexicali, my GP is in Nogales, and I think my dentist will be a doc from Mexicali as well.

[wrk-n-prgrss 0]

While I agree with the original post completely, I find that I'm starting to feel like it's time to give up and give in.

As it stands now only those with jobs pay for all the freebie health care. Those who do nothing, sit on their butts, do drugs all day long, feed off welfare... they'll finally be paying a portion too, as in sales tax.

No, I don't think our gov't is smart enough to handle the job but the reality is that we are doing it anyway but just a select few are paying for it. At least with socialized medicine even those on welfare as a career will have to pay a portion of their own life's expenses.

Let's face it people, we already HAVE socialized medicine. Go to any county hospital with a sore throat and see if you are turned away. You won't be. You'll be asked to pay but if you say no, they send you on your way. It's already here, we have it. We HAVE socialized medicine. It's just that a select few are paying for it. So let's just go for it and get it over with.

For me... I continue to go to Mexico. I suspect I have a gallbladder issue and my insurance deductibles and copays are so high it's cheaper to go to Mexico and pay cash by a doctor I trust and a hospital that is cleaner than most US hospitals. I plan on getting all my dental care there, I plan on getting everything there when possible. My surgeon is in Mexicali, my GP is in Nogales, and I think my dentist will be a doc from Mexicali as well.

Viva la Mexico!!!

That was the point I was going to bring up...that we have medicaid already in this country. I know of people that pump out kids...like puppies in a litter and every pregnancy is free. Meanwhile..being self employed and working 60 hours a week...my maternity coverage on my policy is maxed out at $3,000, and I end up with a $13,000. baby. Thats $3,000 dollars after deductible of $500.00 and all the premiums for 9+ months. That was 5 years ago and we finally own our kid free & clear.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Viva la Mexico!!!

That was the point I was going to bring up...that we have medicaid already in this country. I know of people that pump out kids...like puppies in a litter and every pregnancy is free. Meanwhile..being self employed and working 60 hours a week...my maternity coverage on my policy is maxed out at $3,000, and I end up with a $13,000. baby. Thats $3,000 dollars after deductible of $500.00 and all the premiums for 9+ months. That was 5 years ago and we finally own our kid free & clear.

If I have to have a lap choly (removing my gallbladder) in the US it will be a $5K deductible and 20% copay. I can have it done by my band surgeon who is also a general surgeon for $4200 in and out the door.

I am not one of those people who love my band surgeon because of the difference his work made in my life (I have my life back now), I love my surgeon because he's a good man and a skilled surgeon and I trust him with my life. I trusted him before I met him just from my research.

So who should I go to, a surgeon that I don't know, will kick me out of the hospital as soon as I wake up and tell me to call him if there is a problem, OR.... go to my band surgeon who has more education than most US docs, cares about me as a patient and a person, will keep me in the hospital for a full two nights, and pay less?

This one just isn't difficult.

Mexico all the way!

[marnie723 0]

Funnneee, I never would have thought about owning your kids free & clear. Although every once in awhile they could be repossessed just for a day or two & I might not mind. HA!

Imagine....Canada is trying to find ways to increase birth rates because they have been declining and having a child there doesns't cost you a dime except the gas in your car to get to the hospital. In the States we still have steady birth rates even though it may be alot of cash out of your pocket. What's up with that?

[wrk-n-prgrss 0]

[wrk-n-prgrss 0]

Funnneee, I never would have thought about owning your kids free & clear. Although every once in awhile they could be repossessed just for a day or two & I might not mind. HA!

Imagine....Canada is trying to find ways to increase birth rates because they have been declining and having a child there doesns't cost you a dime except the gas in your car to get to the hospital. In the States we still have steady birth rates even though it may be alot of cash out of your pocket. What's up with that?

Good question. I think there still is a lot of teen pregnancies, but other than that...?

[TommyO 5]

How many birds in cages die thinking the ceiling is the sky?