Obesity and malnutrition

[Berry78 4,261]

If you type "obesity" and "malnutrition" into a search engine, it will return over a million results. The first few articles that show up are pretty much saying, hey! Obese people are actually malnourished! Who would have thought?!

Then you read the articles, and they start blaming the modern agricultural methods and processed foods, soda pop and high fructose corn Syrup. They could be right.

But I'm interested in following this in a different direction.. or perhaps just further along the same lines.

So, we'll take a person (we'll call her Cindy) that is eating the typical flour and shortening diet. She is gonna be short on Vitamin C. (And D, and chromium, and iron.. etc. etc but we'll pick on C). So, now the body says, HEY, we're missing something, yo!! But, it can only say it with a nagging hunger that sends Cindy searching through her cupboards. Her eye lands on some ice cream (in the cupboard.. I know, right?).. and she digs it out and starts eating. But since there isn't vit. C in the ice cream, a couple spoonfuls doesn't quell her hunger, so she eats until she's ready to pop.

Now she puts on some weight. 5'1 Cindy, who should weigh maybe 120lbs, now weighs 140. With the increase in weight, her body now has to work harder just to exist (the muscles have to carry the extra load, etc), so she needs MORE nutrients.. more Vitamin C, and Calcium, calories, etc. etc.

But, does Cindy increase her consumption? No, of course not! She sees her pants don't fit, the scale has the wrong number, and so what does she do? She goes on a diet! Slashes her calories. But if she just eats less of the same nutrient-poor food that caused her to gain weight in the first place, then she's eating fewer nutrients too! (Imagine she was eating a big plate of spaghetti that had 2 cups of Tomato sauce on it, and changes to a small plate of spaghetti with 1/2 cup sauce. The majority of the Vitamins in that spaghetti are in the sauce, and now she is eating 25% of the vit C. that she had been).

The pounds drop off, but so does her basic nutrition level. Eventually her body rebels and she can't keep to her diet anymore. She starts eating again, and her body is screaming for nutrients, but keeps getting fed junk, so the pounds just pile on. Now she's heavier than she was before!

People that are carrying too much weight need to be FED, not starved. But WHAT they are fed MUST CHANGE! We have all the energy we need (and more).. but it's the missing nutrients that we must find and replenish.

Bariatric surgery works because we are able to decrease our calories. The postop diet is designed to keep our Protein levels up, and we are to take vitamins to replace those we don't get from our food. But not every vitamin comes in pill form, and not every nutrient has a blood test. We HAVE to continue working to improve our food choices so that we can fill all those needs.

I have people at home that are trying to lose weight, and I'm watching my MIL grab about 1oz of pork loin to eat for dinner (with some corn). I'm like, what the *expletive* do you think you are doing? She's sooo.... clueless... when it comes to nutrition. But she won't let me formulate a plan for her.

[Healthy_life2 8,324]

I was clueless before surgery. That's why my weight and health were crappy.It's eye opening to go through this process and learn how to fuel your body correctly. Nutrition is key to health.

If people ask I will discuss weight loss. Many people don't want weight loss advice from a bariatric patient. The main reason is they don't think anything we say applies to them. Their mind is set that our weight loss is only successful due to surgery.

Most want a quick fix. They don't want to know it takes work.

[Apple203 1,314]

Great post

[FluffyChix 17,415]

Concur. Great post! So sorry to hear about your MIL and that she won't let you help. Helplessness=horrible feeling!

[Sosewsue61 3,185]

Your MIL isn't ready to hear anything right now. Has she ever went to Weight Watchers? If you really listen to WW about the serving sizes and getting the vegetables in - it can work for a long time if you work it well. She may listen to a stranger better than a DIL.....you know how that can go.

[Berry78 4,261]

Actually I was just using her as a real-time example.. the other parts of the post are the more interesting MIL has gone through so many diets that she thinks she knows it all.. but is also TERRIFIED to eat. She has lost 30lbs, and wants to keep up the momentum, but also doesn't want to give up things like diet soda or biscuits and gravy. She's all over the place, honestly.

I'm thinking that's how a lot of us were on diets in the past. Just not really sure how to actually make it happen. Personally, I planned out each diet to a "T".. had all my rules and parameters in place, then embarked upon them. The missing puzzle piece for me was the knowledge that a diet has to be forever. Somehow I missed that memo, and thought they were supposed to be for a few months or so. My diets were designed for maximal weight loss in a short period of time, rather than durability. Life circumstances or hunger would knock me off plan, lickety split.

MIL's "plan" is to see if she can continue eating like, 500 calories a day.. and she'll make sure she gets at least 20g of Protein. (yeah, I'm eating this whole ounce of pork.. because I had half a cheese sandwich earlier with a whole 5g of protein in the cheese).. psycho...

Yes I'm venting here.. but I don't to her. I'm actually pretty nice (maybe a little firm).

I'll mention WW to her.

[Apple1 2,572]

Sorry you MIL isn't willing to take your advice. All you can do is try.

This is why I have been spending so much time researching nutrition and diet. I have listened to 6 books on this subject and still feel like there is more to learn sometimes.

You are correct that many of the nutrients that are bodies need are best absorbed from the whole foods. This is why restricting our diets to just meat with a bite or two of veggies is not good long term.

[dreamingsmall 1,125]

13 hours ago, Berry78 said:

If you type "obesity" and "malnutrition" into a search engine, it will return over a million results. The first few articles that show up are pretty much saying, hey! Obese people are actually malnourished! Who would have thought?!

Then you read the articles, and they start blaming the modern agricultural methods and processed foods, soda pop and high fructose corn Syrup. They could be right.

But I'm interested in following this in a different direction.. or perhaps just further along the same lines.

So, we'll take a person (we'll call her Cindy) that is eating the typical flour and shortening diet. She is gonna be short on Vitamin C. (And D, and chromium, and iron.. etc. etc but we'll pick on C). So, now the body says, HEY, we're missing something, yo!! But, it can only say it with a nagging hunger that sends Cindy searching through her cupboards. Her eye lands on some ice cream (in the cupboard.. I know, right?).. and she digs it out and starts eating. But since there isn't vit. C in the ice cream, a couple spoonfuls doesn't quell her hunger, so she eats until she's ready to pop.

Now she puts on some weight. 5'1 Cindy, who should weigh maybe 120lbs, now weighs 140. With the increase in weight, her body now has to work harder just to exist (the muscles have to carry the extra load, etc), so she needs MORE nutrients.. more Vitamin C, and Calcium, calories, etc. etc.

But, does Cindy increase her consumption? No, of course not! She sees her pants don't fit, the scale has the wrong number, and so what does she do? She goes on a diet! Slashes her calories. But if she just eats less of the same nutrient-poor food that caused her to gain weight in the first place, then she's eating fewer nutrients too! (Imagine she was eating a big plate of spaghetti that had 2 cups of Tomato sauce on it, and changes to a small plate of spaghetti with 1/2 cup sauce. The majority of the Vitamins in that spaghetti are in the sauce, and now she is eating 25% of the vit C. that she had been).

The pounds drop off, but so does her basic nutrition level. Eventually her body rebels and she can't keep to her diet anymore. She starts eating again, and her body is screaming for nutrients, but keeps getting fed junk, so the pounds just pile on. Now she's heavier than she was before!

People that are carrying too much weight need to be FED, not starved. But WHAT they are fed MUST CHANGE! We have all the energy we need (and more).. but it's the missing nutrients that we must find and replenish.

Bariatric surgery works because we are able to decrease our calories. The postop diet is designed to keep our Protein levels up, and we are to take Vitamins to replace those we don't get from our food. But not every Vitamin comes in pill form, and not every nutrient has a blood test. We HAVE to continue working to improve our food choices so that we can fill all those needs.

I have people at home that are trying to lose weight, and I'm watching my MIL grab about 1oz of pork loin to eat for dinner (with some corn). I'm like, what the *expletive* do you think you are doing? She's sooo.... clueless... when it comes to nutrition. But she won't let me formulate a plan for her.

Good advice, but we all go out our own pace, most of us would have responded the same if we were not ready, sometimes we forget were we used to be Let her be, shes trying one step at a time, sometimes formulated plans can be overwhelming she may get there on her own.

[dreamingsmall 1,125]

5 hours ago, Apple1 said:

Sorry you MIL isn't willing to take your advice. All you can do is try.

This is why I have been spending so much time researching nutrition and diet. I have listened to 6 books on this subject and still feel like there is more to learn sometimes.

You are correct that many of the nutrients that are bodies need are best absorbed from the whole foods. This is why restricting our diets to just meat with a bite or two of veggies is not good long term.

What should our diet look like long term? my plan is not low carb so allowed anything, but right now what you describe was how i ate 3 months out .. rice makes me full so does Pasta i assume nt tried it, had a bite of bread made me sick lol, qiniou how ever you spell it not bad/

[Berry78 4,261]

[Berry78 4,261]

[Apple1 2,572]

1 hour ago, dreamingsmall said:

What should our diet look like long term? my plan is not low carb so allowed anything, but right now what you describe was how i ate 3 months out .. rice makes me full so does Pasta i assume nt tried it, had a bite of bread made me sick lol, qiniou how ever you spell it not bad/

Actually whole grains are really a tiny part of the plate. As you said they are very filling and I rarely eat bread of any kind for that reason. My daily carb count usually falls some where around 50-60g, but I am not counting that on purpose. I chose foods for their nutrition value not the macro. I eat a lot of Beans and legumes, veggies of all types, tofu, fruit in smaller amounts,nuts seeds, brown rice,quinoa,occasionally whole wheat Pasta, and salad with dark leafy greens. Once or twice a month I eat a little salmon or other fish and 1-3 eggs per month from my chickens. My goal right now is 90% whole foods plant based with the other 10% being eggs/dairy and fish/chicken. I purchase locally raised free range chicken when we eat it. The dairy comes from the full fat creme I use in my coffee and my daily Protein Shake. I eat very little processed foods and stay away from sugar and refined carbs as much as possible.

This is what is working for me and is what I believe from my research to be a very healthy diet. You have to figure out what is going to work for you long term.

[Berry78 4,261]

My epiphany came with the concept of "single ingredient". Old fashioned cook books compile ingredients like:

eggs, butter, sugar, flour, salt, cinnamon.

Modern cookbooks say things like:

1 cup Pillsbury all-purpose baking mix

The problem with the baking mixes and boxed cake mixes, is we lose track of what goes into the food. Occasionally I have the kids make a cake from scratch. They are SHOCKED at the pile of sugar that goes into the bowl. A cake mix has that stuff all mixed up, so you can't SEE it!

When I was working on formulating my meal plan, I started with protein-containing foods. I googled, for example, "egg nutrition". A quick chart shows up from which I can select the size/quantity. I go through lists of these foods, comparing all the different types, and similarities quickly become apparent. From these similarities, I can generalize (for example, 7g of Protein in an egg, a half cup of Beans, one ounce of nuts, one ounce of meat or fish, 1/4 cup cottage cheese, or one cup of milk). I know I might be off a gram here or there, but it's close enough that I can now plan a day without having to keep going and looking up the protein content of the various foods. If I'm worried, I plan for more protein than I need.

After protein is taken care of, then I look at the next macro. Carbohydrates. Some of the selected protein foods contain carbs, so I count those up. Do I have room for any others? If yes, then I look at fruit. A while back, I was researching fructose, and the daily recommended amount was approximately what was contained in one piece of fruit. So, that's easy. One fruit, depending on size, usually contains 15-25g carbs. I look at fruit, rather than grains, because fruit contains Vitamin C, and addresses any sweet cravings. Plus, you keep a fruit bowl on the counter and grab a piece. No cooking or prep required.

During the weight loss phase, that's pretty much as many carbs as we should be eating. The next place I'd look is starchy vegetables (potatoes and sweet potatoes). If I really am yamming for a sweet potato, I have that instead of fruit. (And on the super rare occasions that I want ezekial toast.. again, substitute).

Veggies come in a variety of "starchiness". Leafy greens have less starch than winter squash, which has less than corn. It's good to have a sense of the variation, but I don't let any of the numbers dictate which ones are good or bad. All of them have a ton of nutrients and should be eaten liberally. I don't go out of my way to eat corn most of the time because the calorie/nutrient ratio isn't the best during the weight loss phase. But if I'm presented with a nice fresh ear of sweet corn, I'm not saying "no".

And lastly, fat. We need some fat. Most of the protein containing foods also contain fat. I count up what is included in the foods that have already been selected. For the most part, it's enough that I don't have to add any (we need somewhere between 35g and 65g). But, those veggies that contain vit. A and K need to be eaten with some fat. So if I'm eating veggies alone, I add a teaspoon of olive oil or butter (or swallow an Omega 3 supplement) with them. 1 t. is 5 grams (40 calories). If you want protein with it, melt cheese on broccoli.

Calories: If we are aiming for 1100 calories, and 70g protein and 80g carbs (600 calories) + 55.5g fat (500 calories)... then everything works.

But, when it's time to increase calories, usually protein needs don't go up significantly, so we'll have to increase carbs and fat. That's when we start bringing in potatoes, whole, unprocessed grains, and additional nuts and avacados and cheese.

But, it's not a free for all, just because all the food selections are whole and nutritious, we still have to pay attention to how many calories we can handle before starting to gain. Some of us will gain on 1200 (check your thyroid!), and some can eat 2500 and maintain. The only way to know where you stand is to spend money on testing, or keep impeccable food records/plan.

[Apple1 2,572]

13 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

fter Protein is taken care of, then I look at the next macro. Carbohydrates. Some of the selected protein foods contain carbs, so I count those up. Do I have room for any others? If yes, then I look at fruit. A while back, I was researching fructose, and the daily recommended amount was approximately what was contained in one piece of fruit. So, that's easy. One fruit, depending on size, usually contains 15-25g carbs. I look at fruit, rather than grains, because fruit contains Vitamin C, and addresses any sweet cravings. Plus, you keep a fruit bowl on the counter and grab a piece. No cooking or prep required.

I think your plan is great, but I have come to believe that we spend way to much time looking at macros. We call food by its macro content now instead of what it is. I hate this part of WLS.

[Berry78 4,261]

It would be nice to not have to count and plan.. and if we could still eat 20 cups of food a day, then maybe we would have that luxury. But, here we are, having to meet a zillion different nutritional needs into 3-5 cups of food. Heck yeah we have to plan!

My hubby, with his normal-sized stomach, can easily eat 2 cups (4 servings) of Beans, PLUS a nice hunk of whole wheat bread, PLUS a side of baked apples, all in one sitting. Then he can eat 2+ more times during the day. He has the LUXURY of spreading his nutrients out into massive quantities of food, and it's nearly impossible for him to not meet his Protein needs (the above meal has 34g, right there).

But I'm not him. I don't have a normal sized stomach any more, and if I ate the given meal, it would take all day, and I wouldn't have room for anything else. And I would only consume 34g for the whole day, which would leave me deficient.

But this was my choice.. I'm exchanging a future of diabetes (and having to count blood sugar readings several times a day) for counting my protein.