Keto vs paleo??? Have you ever tried it?

[xoxococojay 842]

Have you guys ever tried either and did it work for you post op? What are your thoughts?

So for those of you who are unfamiliar with each, here's how it works:

Keto-great for dropping **** loads of weight. Diet tends to be more fun because it allows you to eat yummy foods like bacon. You still have to watch your macros. But basically your diet consists mostly of Protein and fat (yes i said fat) and no sugar or carbs. So it forces your body to use fat as energy, thus causing you to burn calories and fat like crazy.

Paleo- more of a lifestyle change so you will be healthier overall and still lose weight but not as dramatic for weight loss. Diet is also low carb and high protein. No processed foods like grains etc are allowed. You are allowed to eat starchy veggies like sweet potatoes, yams etc on this diet.

I know people who have tried both and loved it, Keto seems to be a winner amongst everyone i've talked to. But since our nutrition needs are different as wls surgery patients, i was wondering if anyone tried it and if it still had the same effect on us.

[Clementine Sky 708]

For me, paleo is far more sustainable. Keto is great if you're really trying to push hard to lose weight rapidly for a special event, or you're incredibly disciplined. I cannot maintain that strict level of eating for more than a month. Whenever I've done keto, I've lost the weight, but obsessed about food far more, and gained more of the weight back once I was no longer revolving my life around the diet.

I've primarily stuck to a paleo-like diet. My weight loss was slower, but steady. I surpassed my weight goal by one year out, and have maintained the loss quite easily. I'm nearly two years out now. I no longer track my food because I'd gotten into an eating habit, and just naturally eat the way I did when I was losing weight, but I have around 60-90 carbs a day. On keto you're supposed to have less than 20. That's just too restrictive for me.

Speaking of paleo, I just discovered Paleo Pops, which are surprisingly yummy, at Bristol Farms. They're great when it's incredibly hot out and I want a cold treat.

[xoxococojay 842]

For me, paleo is far more sustainable. Keto is great if you're really trying to push hard to lose weight rapidly for a special event, or you're incredibly disciplined. I cannot maintain that strict level of eating for more than a month. Whenever I've done keto, I've lost the weight, but obsessed about food far more, and gained more of the weight back once I was no longer revolving my life around the diet.
I've primarily stuck to a paleo-like diet. My weight loss was slower, but steady. I surpassed my weight goal by one year out, and have maintained the loss quite easily. I'm nearly two years out now. I no longer track my food because I'd gotten into an eating habit, and just naturally eat the way I did when I was losing weight, but I have around 60-90 carbs a day. On keto you're supposed to have less than 20. That's just too restrictive for me.
Speaking of paleo, I just discovered Paleo Pops, which are surprisingly yummy, at Bristol Farms. They're great when it's incredibly hot out and I want a cold treat.

@clementine sky i'm glad you liked paleo. You made a good point about keto, i wasn't sure how it would work if i stopped. I wasn't sure if i would re-gain or not. I think for me personally keto might be easier for me to follow than paleo. But that's just because i prefer dark meat and i can do without starchy veggies etc. i plan on trying it, not sure if i will be able to stick to it long term. My fear for either plan is what happens if once in a blue moon i eat carbs or grains, will i blow up or have a reaction? Idk. But thanks for your insight, i found it really helpful.

[Clementine Sky 708]

28 minutes ago, xoxococojay said:

@clementine sky i'm glad you liked paleo. You made a good point about Keto, i wasn't sure how it would work if i stopped. I wasn't sure if i would re-gain or not. I think for me personally keto might be easier for me to follow than paleo. But that's just because i prefer dark meat and i can do without starchy veggies etc. i plan on trying it, not sure if i will be able to stick to it long term. My fear for either plan is what happens if once in a blue moon i eat carbs or grains, will i blow up or have a reaction? Idk. But thanks for your insight, i found it really helpful.

I was inspired to try the keto diet after seeing photos about it on Instagram from people who'd had the VSG. One of my concerns about it also came from someone I follow on Instagram. She also has a YouTube channel, and back when I was researching having the VSG her videos were helpful to me. She's around the same age and had been about the same BMI as I was when I had the surgery. She was able to get down to 128 (from a surgery weight of about 200, I believe) following an incredibly strict keto plan, but eventually could no longer be that restrictive. She rapidly gained back more than 25 pounds, putting her back into an overweight BMI, which made her feel so discouraged and depressed. After months at the higher weight she is trying keto again, though, so obviously she still feels it was valuable.

Prior to having the VSG I frequently yo-yo'd by doing really low carb diets. It was precisely the same pattern - I'd strictly limit my carbs, obsessively follow recipes from online, obsessively dream about carbs I was depriving myself of, and then eventually cave in, and would rapidly regain. With my lower carb, but not strictly low carb diet more like paleo, I've gotten down to a 20 BMI, and maintained it for a year. My weight has only fluctuated by about 5 pounds. That's just me, though. My morning Breakfast has more carbs than what's allotted in the entire day for keto (high Protein yogurt, low sugar fruit, and kale smoothie). You might find that the keto diet fits you perfectly.

[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

For me Paleo is boring AF and too limiting, there is no way in hell I am giving up cheese for anyone or anything and I don't even it often, maybe 2 or 3 times a week but still.

If you don't stick with it, you will pack on pounds just like people pack on pounds not sticking to Keto.

It doesn't matter what diet anyone follows, what matters is that you like it enough that you can stick to it long term.

I feel like everyone is looking for some magic diet and there isn't one. You have to find a way to eat, hopefully not a "diet" that you like and can stick to, it might not be any known plan. You just need to find something that you can stick to and maintain a calorie deficit or calories at maintenance level without feeling deprived.

[Clementine Sky 708]

Oh, to clarify - I've never strictly followed paleo, but rather followed more of the lower but not low carb eating style that is similar to it. I definitely eat cheese.

To add - I've never put any food on the forbidden forever list. For me, anytime I tell myself I can't have something, I then crave it. That food becomes the proverbial forbidden fruit that I'm the most tempted to have. Instead, I try to eat sensibly, with a focus on Protein and then healthy carbs such as low GI fruit in moderation. I've had cheesecake, ice cream, alcohol, you name it in the nearly two years since having the VSG, but less than a handful of times. By not banning myself from a food, I actually desire it less because I don't feel any sense of deprivation.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Clementine Sky

[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

3 minutes ago, Clementine Sky said:

Oh, to clarify - I've never strictly followed paleo, but rather followed more of the lower but not low carb eating style that is similar to it. I definitely eat cheese.

Then that isn't paleo. Not eating dairy is pretty much a cornerstone of paleo because cavemen did not have animal husbandry.

[Clementine Sky 708]

2 minutes ago, OutsideMatchInside said:

Then that isn't paleo. Not eating dairy is pretty much a cornerstone of paleo because cavemen did not have animal husbandry.

That's why I clarified that I've never strictly followed the paleo diet, but instead followed the eating style of having lower carbs but not strictly low carb. It's why I described my way of eating as "paleo-like" in my first post.

[xoxococojay 842]

Oh, to clarify - I've never strictly followed paleo, but rather followed more of the lower but not low carb eating style that is similar to it. I definitely eat cheese. [emoji4]
To add - I've never put any food on the forbidden forever list. For me, anytime I tell myself I can't have something, I then crave it. That food becomes the proverbial forbidden fruit that I'm the most tempted to have. Instead, I try to eat sensibly, with a focus on Protein and then healthy carbs such as low GI fruit in moderation. I've had cheesecake, ice cream, alcohol, you name it in the nearly two years since having the VSG, but less than a handful of times. By not banning myself from a food, I actually desire it less because I don't feel any sense of deprivation.

So now i'm completely fascinated by you. I might send you a private message with a few questions. What was the name of the youtuber that you found? And when you have dairy do you eat the full fat version or the low fat version?

What is your idea of limiting carbs? I can totally do no carbs but occasionally i might crave a quesadilla or overnight oats and i need to make sure i don't blow up like a balloon after. You have no idea how helpful you are right now, thanks a million!!!

Sorry for playing 21 questions btw.

[GwenSue 10]

Keto was great, it got me to the required # for wls. I saw a lot of people in the Facebook groups go nuts with the fat bombs and sugar free candy and wondered why the scale didn't move down. It's not a free for all with the fats lol

Paleo is also great, but one needs to be wary of those paleo sites with 23984923874 'paleo' baked good recipes. Those treats will get you on the wrong path quick.

Whole30 is my favorite thus far. It confirmed those pesky grains were doing all sorts of bad stuff to my intestines and made me feel so much better. Keto/low carb with mostly Whole30 rules works best for me.

[Clementine Sky 708]

2 minutes ago, xoxococojay said:

So now i'm completely fascinated by you. I might send you a private message with a few questions. What was the name of the youtuber that you found? And when you have dairy do you eat the full fat version or the low fat version?

What is your idea of limiting carbs? I can totally do no carbs but occasionally i might crave a quesadilla or overnight oats and i need to make sure i don't blow up like a balloon after. You have no idea how helpful you are right now, thanks a million!!!

Sorry for playing 21 questions btw.

I don't mind the questions at all! I'll send you a PM with the name of the YouTuber.

Whenever possible I have full fat dairy rather than reduced or nonfat, for a few reasons. I've read several articles about scientific studies showing that full fat is healthier, and as an added bonus I prefer the taste. My dermatologist told me it would be less likely to aggravate hormonal acne, so that's another major reason. I have PCOS and must be careful about what I consume because I'm very sensitive and prone to breaking out. He suggests having full fat dairy in moderation, and said that goat's milk-based dairy is less likely to trigger breakouts. I like to get goat's milk yogurt from a Sunday farmer's market. It's expensive, but excellent. You can also get it at Whole Foods, Bristol Farms, Gelsons, but everywhere it's pricier than dairy milk yogurt. I have whole milk in my coffee when I'm drinking it out, and at home I use a cashew nut and almond milk Protein Drink. I always get the unsweetened one that is lower in carbs, and add in a tiny bit of sugar free, no carb Torani Syrup for flavor. When I was in the active weight loss phase I ate whole fat plain Greek yogurt with carbs under 10 and Protein over 20. (This was before my derm told me to cut back on dairy). There are several brands that meet the criteria, with Fage being one commonly available. I've more recently switched to having plain Silk yogurt, which is nondairy, to see if that can help reduce the risk of breakouts. It has around 10 carbs and 13 grams of protein, but at this point when I'm trying to maintain that's acceptable for me.

Dr. Matthew Weiner, a bariatric surgeon, has videos on YouTube about "setpoint smoothies". I'll have them for meals or for Snacks.

I always have full fat cheese. I mainly eat that a little more sparingly because of the worries about dairy and acne, not because of weight concerns. If you don't have a fear of acne breakouts, you'd probably be fine having it in higher quantities. One of my favorite snacks is a protein snack pack by Sargento that has a little portion of cheese cubes, nuts and dried fruit, for around 13 carbs. I have that almost every weekday afternoon. Typically my meals now are something like: smoothie and coffee for breakfast; a salad with an egg, some chicken or another protein; an afternoon snack of coffee and a Sargento snack break or something comparable to it; dinner of a turkey burger or lean steak, green Beans or another lower carb vegetable, and a crispbread (sort of like a large cracker that has under 10 carbs) with a little butter on it. Some nights I'll have a dessert like a raspberry cream bar from Trader Joe's (10 carbs) or a Paleo Pop (about 15). When I was pushing more to lose weight, I ate similarly except would have a breakfast that was lower in carbs, such as a couple of pieces of bacon or a turkey sausage patty.

In the wintertime I'd eat overnight oats more often, and didn't notice a negative impact on weight loss. It fills you up and gives you needed Fiber. I made them with steel cut oatmeal, and added in a dash of milk, a quarter of a cup of berries, and a tiny bit of SF Torani syrup. I'd just be sure to be mindful about anything you add to the oats. If you're not losing weight, I'd try having that breakfast just a couple of times a week and having something lower in carbs other mornings. As for quesadillas, you can make them with lower carb wraps, though I've never personally liked them as much. I think having something you're craving occasionally can help you to not binge. At least for me it does. I'll often eat something that is higher in carbs on the weekends but still sensible (like a quesadilla but not with a whole basket of chips and salsa alongside), but then eat lower carbs for other meals and during the week.

I try to have between 60 and 90 grams of carbs every day. Typically breakfast is the meal that has the most carbs. With the yogurt plus fruit and kale for a smoothie it's over 20 grams, whereas with other meals and snacks I try to stay under 20. There is a chart for the paleo diet breaking down how many carbs you should consume based on your gender and if you're trying to lose weight, and it recommends that women have between 50 and 75 grams of carbs while striving to lose weight, and 75 to 150 if you're trying to maintain. I've followed their basic guidelines, but not the rigidness of the diet in totally eliminating foods.

https://chriskresser.com/the-3-step-process-to-determining-your-ideal-carbohydrate-intake/

[xoxococojay 842]

Keto was great, it got me to the required # for wls. I saw a lot of people in the Facebook groups go nuts with the fat bombs and sugar free candy and wondered why the scale didn't move down. It's not a free for all with the fats lol
Paleo is also great, but one needs to be wary of those paleo sites with 23984923874 'paleo' baked good recipes. Those treats will get you on the wrong path quick.
Whole30 is my favorite thus far. It confirmed those pesky grains were doing all sorts of bad stuff to my intestines and made me feel so much better. Keto/low carb with mostly Whole30 rules works best for me.

I'm definitely going to look into whole30. Thank you. Do you still do paleo or keto?

[xoxococojay 842]

I don't mind the questions at all! [emoji4] I'll send you a PM with the name of the YouTuber.
Whenever possible I have full fat dairy rather than reduced or nonfat, for a few reasons. I've read several articles about scientific studies showing that full fat is healthier, and as an added bonus I prefer the taste. My dermatologist told me it would be less likely to aggravate hormonal acne, so that's another major reason. I have PCOS and must be careful about what I consume because I'm very sensitive and prone to breaking out. He suggests having full fat dairy in moderation, and said that goat's milk-based dairy is less likely to trigger breakouts. I like to get goat's milk yogurt from a Sunday farmer's market. It's expensive, but excellent. You can also get it at Whole Foods, Bristol Farms, Gelsons, but everywhere it's pricier than dairy milk yogurt. I have whole milk in my coffee when I'm drinking it out, and at home I use a cashew nut and almond milk Protein drink. I always get the unsweetened one that is lower in carbs, and add in a tiny bit of sugar free, no carb Torani Syrup for flavor. When I was in the active weight loss phase I ate whole fat plain Greek yogurt with carbs under 10 and protein over 20. (This was before my derm told me to cut back on dairy). There are several brands that meet the criteria, with Fage being one commonly available. I've more recently switched to having plain Silk yogurt, which is nondairy, to see if that can help reduce the risk of breakouts. It has around 10 carbs and 13 grams of protein, but at this point when I'm trying to maintain that's acceptable for me.
Dr. Matthew Weiner, a bariatric surgeon, has videos on YouTube about "setpoint smoothies". I'll have them for meals or for Snacks.
I always have full fat cheese. I mainly eat that a little more sparingly because of the worries about dairy and acne, not because of weight concerns. If you don't have a fear of acne breakouts, you'd probably be fine having it in higher quantities. One of my favorite snacks is a protein snack pack by Sargento that has a little portion of cheese cubes, nuts and dried fruit, for around 13 carbs. I have that almost every weekday afternoon. Typically my meals now are something like: smoothie and coffee for breakfast; a salad with an egg, some chicken or another protein; an afternoon snack of coffee and a Sargento snack break or something comparable to it; dinner of a turkey burger or lean steak, green Beans or another lower carb vegetable, and a crispbread (sort of like a large cracker that has under 10 carbs) with a little butter on it. Some nights I'll have a dessert like a raspberry cream bar from Trader Joe's (10 carbs) or a Paleo Pop (about 15). When I was pushing more to lose weight, I ate similarly except would have a breakfast that was lower in carbs, such as a couple of pieces of bacon or a turkey sausage patty.
In the wintertime I'd eat overnight oats more often, and didn't notice a negative impact on weight loss. It fills you up and gives you needed fiber. I made them with steel cut oatmeal, and added in a dash of milk, a quarter of a cup of berries, and a tiny bit of SF Torani syrup. I'd just be sure to be mindful about anything you add to the oats. If you're not losing weight, I'd try having that breakfast just a couple of times a week and having something lower in carbs other mornings. As for quesadillas, you can make them with lower carb wraps, though I've never personally liked them as much. I think having something you're craving occasionally can help you to not binge. At least for me it does. I'll often eat something that is higher in carbs on the weekends but still sensible (like a quesadilla but not with a whole basket of chips and salsa alongside), but then eat lower carbs for other meals and during the week.
I try to have between 60 and 90 grams of carbs every day. Typically breakfast is the meal that has the most carbs. With the yogurt plus fruit and kale for a smoothie it's over 20 grams, whereas with other meals and snacks I try to stay under 20. There is a chart for the paleo diet breaking down how many carbs you should consume based on your gender and if you're trying to lose weight, and it recommends that women have between 50 and 75 grams of carbs while striving to lose weight, and 75 to 150 if you're trying to maintain. I've followed their basic guidelines, but not the rigidness of the diet in totally eliminating foods.
https://chriskresser.com/the-3-step-process-to-determining-your-ideal-carbohydrate-intake/

Oh wow, you made paleo look super easy.

[Clementine Sky 708]

6 hours ago, xoxococojay said:

Oh wow, you made paleo look super easy.

I've never strictly followed the paleo diet or any other diet since having the VSG, because I was more focused on creating sustainable eating habits that could lead to not only losing weight but maintaining that loss. In the past whenever I tried to strictly follow a diet I'd inevitably cheat on it, with a slice of birthday cake at work, or a night out, or whatever, and then feel so discouraged. I'd obsess about food and feel deprived. Most diets are far too restrictive to follow for life. So this time I decided not to adhere to any diet plan, but instead to just focus on making sensible choices with eating. I took inspiration from paleo about how much Protein, carbs, and fat I should consume, but modified the diet to fit my own lifestyle. It was a challenge at first, but with time it became much more routine to me, and thus easier.

[williamrjomes2 147]

Whole30 is very similar to the Paleo diet. Your not counting calories. You can have protien, fruits and veggies. No dairy, no sugar or sweetners, no Pasta. Whole30.com has tons of information available, such as food shopping list, things that are allowed and not allowed. Check it out. It's definitely worth a read.

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