Demographics - Opinions - Weighing Options (no pun intended)

[TheBearguy8 58]

to be blunt - you remind me of me before the surgery = you wanted FIRM real, conclusive 100% sure data, and in a way, a sort of guarantee. They reason you can't find out what you want is because it doesn't exist. There are too many variables. For me - at a certain point I found people most similar to me - men, whose experiences seem vastly different from women. Then I looked for their YouTube videos, their starting weights, even their heights, frames, and asked about their fitness level in their life beforehand. THAT is what made the biggest difference. Someone who may have been a shut-in, zero physical activity for years, many health issues and tons of medications - it's not the same experience as the guys I finally found who fit my situation. BMI 35-45, moderately active, generally healthy, just frustratingly fat and being proactive before disaster really hits. It also helped to find some of those guys were gay (I am) and their before and after pictures were beyond inspiring.

[P-Diddy 4]

1 minute ago, TheBearguy8 said:

to be blunt - you remind me of me before the surgery = you wanted FIRM real, conclusive 100% sure data, and in a way, a sort of guarantee.

Mostly I just want to feel like I'm not gambling.

[HB76356 122]

Mostly I just want to feel like I'm not gambling.

That's the thing, you're definitely gambling, but you're gambling on yourself. The answers to whether or not you will be successful are only known to you. The surgery will provide you with an extra tool in your fight against obesity, but it's not a miracle cure.

I lost 160 lbs myself and then gained back 30. I got back on track, but wasn't having the results I wanted AND I was starting to get older and notice those "aches and pains." I went from a heaviest of 640 down to 470 on the date of surgery. I'm down to approx 370 today. I want to get to 250/240 (I'm 6-5 and was a defensive lineman).

My surgeon gives a goal weight of 75% of weight you have to lose as the "goal weight". Mine would be 270 or so. They consider that a success. It's not quite good enough for me, personally. I want to be able to do all the things I never even considered, like go skydiving and such.

Your goals have to be your motivation to succeed. The surgery is just a helping hand.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using BariatricPal mobile app

[Berry78 4,261]

The surgery is a gamble. About 1 in 20 people that get it end up regretting it due to complications. About 1 in 7 experience significant regain.

But, 19 out of 20 don't have notable complications and are happy they did it... and 6 out of 7 stay relatively thin (some regain is normal and expected.. like 15lbs.).

The odds are in your favor. But no surgery is ever guaranteed, as much as we would like it to be.

Surgery is, and should be, a last resort. For me, I got to the point where I would rather take the risk by trying to become healthier, than sit by, watching my life pass me by, deteriorating further and further.

I'm 3.5 months out. No regrets so far.

[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

6 hours ago, P-Diddy said:

Than the bypass vs sleeve argument is moot. The Dr. should simply let the patients choose.

Congrats! But thats what I want to know. What predictive factors do you have, and how would we know there are or aren't any? We're constantly being tasked with listening to our doctors. We have to simply listen to them. No doctors ever disagree...nothing is ever pseudo-scientific for them...etc. Of course Doctors ARE wrong all the time, of course personal bias DOES become a factor in someones recommending one surgery over the other. I was given an 80% of excess weight lost with a bypass vs 50% of excess weight lost with a sleeve. Why if I look at other websites do they say up to 70% of weight lost for the Sleeve? Why do some people here quote 60%? I've seen other studies simply quote a BMI reduction number. Why isn't there better information? If I lost 50% of excess weight I'd be right around 280. That would be great! Everything would be soooooo much easier. But if the surgery itself doesn't help why is everyone on this forum able to lose any weight and why is there an expected % of excess weight lost? If super obese are just food addicts and they can't lose weight...how do they lose weight? I'm confident based on my previous attempts at weight loss that weight loss would be rapid. At 1500 calories per day I lose currently 6 to 8 lbs a week. Given the numbers I've seen on the forum I'd lose probably another pound or 2 per week based on the restrictive diet. The fact that I'm a man seems to be a benefit as well as most of the people I see on these forums so far that have issues are women.

I just wish there was some statistical data that could be seen that WLS patients could use to make decisions. Instead of relying on strangers less interested in your results than you are to be as up to date as possible on the numbers.

The people that post on forums are either success or failures. No one in the in between posts really.

Everyone is going to lose weight in the first 6 months just because you are healing. After that it is up to you and how you eat. If you read enough forum posts, lots of people are stalled at month 9 and regaining by month 12 or 18.

You have to understand that these numbers are averages of everyone. People that are successful and people that are not. If one person loses 100% of excess weight, another loses 50% and one only loses 25%. You average that out and it is 58%.

I got an A in stats but I really hate it, so you can work the rest out on your own. There are tons of studies about WLS, there are lots of forums you can read. The people to pay the most attention to are the people that feel they have failed, have not met their goal. You learn the most from them, in what not to do.

[Joann454 1,329]

Mostly I just want to feel like I'm not gambling.

You won't ever feel like you're not gambling because you are. At least the odds are very much in your favor.
That was what I struggled with the most. I loved my life and I was petrified to risk anything that would change it for the worse. I opted for the sleeve and surgically at least, I'm a success. Time will tell as I'm only six weeks out. It's in my hands now.

Good luck with your decision!

[2ndSpring 350]

I'm only 9 months post-op, so still have more to lose, but here is my experience to date.

Prior to surgery, my cravings were constant, my satiety was very low and I was always hungry. So I would eat a lot at one sitting to get full and satisfied and then want something else a short time after. I was constantly eating. If someone asked if I wanted to go out to dinner, but I had just eaten, I would have gone anyway and had a second meal. After surgery, my body no longer works against me. I am satisfied with my 5 ounce meal. I don't eat again until my next scheduled meal and can be on my merry way doing something else in between meals without food occupying my every thought.

But......Head hunger is still there and is a constant battle for me. those old behaviors are still there waiting for me to open the door just a crack. The surgery prevents us from eating too much at once, but enterprising individuals can quickly figure ways around that. For example, you can eat small meals every hour all through the day. Or you could eat ice cream for dinner. After the 6 month mark, it becomes easy to lose your way if you are not careful.

That is why the stats are the way they are. Everyone is successful at first. Those who put in the work at the beginning to make lasting changes about their relationship with food and create new habits to rely on later are more successful long term. Those who rely on the surgery to do all the work, lose the statistical 60-70% in the first year and then put a little back on.

You'll need to do some soul searching about your relationship with food and if you can let it go. there is no right or wrong, just be aware of yourself. If you think that you will not be able to change your relationship, and the surgery will be the main tool, then you may need to pay attention to the statistics. If you are open to behavior change and some really hard work , then the stats may be less important.

You are off to a great start by asking questions and doing research.

Best of luck with whatever surgery you choose. We are all here for you.

[P-Diddy 4]

3 hours ago, deeveg said:

I'm only 9 months post-op, so still have more to lose, but here is my experience to date.

I appreciate you posting but quit reading when you started to give tips to fail. Thanks but not interested in how to cheat. I'm sure I'll figure out things as I go along, no need to pre-emptively start reworking the laws to accomodate my current behaviors before I even have surgery.

On 7/3/2017 at 7:43 PM, Joann454 said:

You won't ever feel like you're not gambling because you are.

I see everyone says that...but...statistically I'm going to lose @ least 50% of my excess weight. That isn't a gamble to me. But for someone to try and quote a small genetic study by Harvard as proof of some genetic quality that determines outcome and suggest that its all in the wind does sound like gambling to me. I don't feel like I'm not in control of the whole thing I just can't get any solid answers. I posted in the guys only section hoping for a demographic that better matched my own. Everyone is not created equal in terms of outcomes and I wasn't trying to mix myself up with people not in my demographic. Because I simply don't believe that their experiences are a good representation of what I'll likely experience. I don't expect that a woman who is post-menopausal (sorry if that offends anyone) is an accurate model for what a man in his thirties should expect from surgery. That doesn't mean that women have nothing to offer in terms of support, only that I think this question is better fielded by people who more closely match who I am.

[Introversion 1,876]

17 minutes ago, P-Diddy said:

I think this question is better fielded by people who more closely match who I am.

Less than 10 percent of weight loss surgery patients are males, and very few of them are in their 30s. Men tend to wait until they're older and in a hot mess medically before opting for bariatric surgery.

Therefore, you'll probably be twiddling your thumbs for quite a long time before you receive replies from those who match your 'precise' demographic.

Good luck to you.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Introversion

[Joann454 1,329]

I see everyone says that...but...statistically I'm going to lose @ least 50% of my excess weight. That isn't a gamble to me. But for someone to try and quote a small genetic study by Harvard as proof of some genetic quality that determines outcome and suggest that its all in the wind does sound like gambling to me. I don't feel like I'm not in control of the whole thing I just can't get any solid answers. I posted in the guys only section hoping for a demographic that better matched my own. Everyone is not created equal in terms of outcomes and I wasn't trying to mix myself up with people not in my demographic. Because I simply don't believe that their experiences are a good representation of what I'll likely experience. I don't expect that a woman who is post-menopausal (sorry if that offends anyone) is an accurate model for what a man in his thirties should expect from surgery. That doesn't mean that women have nothing to offer in terms of support, only that I think this question is better fielded by people who more closely match who I am.

I apologize for not noticing this was in the guys section.
Good luck!

[P-Diddy 4]

4 hours ago, Introversion said:

Less than 10 percent of weight loss surgery patients are males, and very few of them are in their 30s. Men tend to wait until they're older and in a hot mess medically before opting for bariatric surgery.

Further proof that I'm barking up the right tree. That the statistical model we're presented doesn't really give any information about my demographic in a meaningful way. This only leads me to believe my instincts are right.

4 hours ago, Introversion said:

Therefore, you'll probably be twiddling your thumbs for quite a long time before you receive replies from those who match your 'precise' demographic.

I fail to see how suggesting that women who aren't my age aren't good models of my outcome is some how equal to needing a "PRECISE" demographic. It doesn't need to be "PRECISE" i.e. males in their mid-thirties with X amount of body fat etc...more so I was just interested in the very least that the models be male and I'd like to see them at my starting BMI. But strawman away!

[2ndSpring 350]

11 hours ago, P-Diddy said:

I appreciate you posting but quit reading when you started to give tips to fail. Thanks but not interested in how to cheat. I'm sure I'll figure out things as I go along, no need to pre-emptively start reworking the laws to accomodate my current behaviors before I even have surgery.

I am sorry you took it like that. I was definitely not trying to educate you on ways to fail. I was hoping to explain to you the difference between those who are statistically average and those who lose more than the average. You are correct that the statistical averages that are quoted include huge variability and are not predictive of any one individual's success. I had hoped to explain why and what you need to understand going into this so that you are not one of the statistically average.

What is predictive of an individual's long term success is less about what cohort you are in and more about the permanency of the lifestyle changes you undertake after surgery. It is hard work and not everyone is willing to take that path, hence the variability in loss rates.

Edited July 5, 2017 by deeveg

[Berry78 4,261]

I also want to clarify something. The "gamble" everyone talks about isn't about weight loss (not really). The gamble is whether you experience complications from the surgery.

From your history, I'll agree that you are in an excellent position to lose 60-70% of your excess weight with moderate effort. With hard work, you'll likely get to a normal BMI.

Your doctor is full of "you know what", saying that because you are starting heavy, that you won't lose as much. I do suspect what she MEANT was, that if you had started at a lower weight, that you would be more likely to get to 165lbs, but because you started heavier, that your end point will be...say... 235lbs .. so "more loss" really just means "a lower scale #" to her. (Hope that makes sense).

From what I've seen on the boards, because you are male, you will lose very quickly (likely 15-20lbs per month for the first 4-6 months) women lose slower.. usually closer to 10lbs a month. Everyone slows down after the first 6 months, but how slow depends on you. In a year, I expect you'll have lost 150lbs with moderate work. (All these #s are assuming you get the sleeve). But the weight loss with the sleeve can continue for an additional 6 months or so... so you don't have to be too close to goal in a year (like you would after a bypass).

The concept of "calories in vs. calories out" is pretty much hogwash during the losing phase. The scale in no way reflects what you are or aren't eating. This is a huge part of the challenge of post op weight loss. Many times we aren't losing weight, because we aren't eating enough. True story! So take the concepts of BMR, exercising for weight loss, etc.. and tuck them away, because it isn't so cut and dried right after surgery. They may apply during maintenance.

[P-Diddy 4]

17 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

I do suspect what she MEANT was, that if you had started at a lower weight, that you would be more likely to get to 165lbs, but because you started heavier, that your end point will be...say... 235lbs .. so "more loss" really just means "a lower scale #" to her. (Hope that makes sense).

I suspect in spirit that was what she was saying but in context she was comparing the sleeve vs the bypass and suggesting that I won't get satisfactory results with the sleeve because of my weight she just used weird logic to come to that conclusion I'm sure I'd lose less weight with the sleeve than the bypass. Which like you say it might be that she was suggesting if I were lighter I would be more likely to get sub-200. It sounded like she was trying to sell me on the bypass is all. She quoted some other figures that didn't make sense to me and didn't seem to know how many calories were in a gram of fat so its possible that shes just sticking to the script. It's been a very weird experience going to that surgical center to say the least.

Appt 2 is Monday, I'm not sure what is in store for me. I had to have a cardiologist appt and when I went to the cardiologist he rolled his eyes and said that "The computer misread your ekg...it says you had a heart attack but I can tell from your ekg thats not the case...sometimes the computer just makes an error...". Which was comforting I didn't know I was tasked with seeing the cardiologist because it said I had a heart attack...that would have been weird. They scheduled an echo because of a congenital heart defect I had when I was a baby but the cardiologist suggested that as long as nothing showed up on the Echo that he'd clear me.

I've started being ketogenic and dieting a little to start to get down lower before surgery. I would love to be sub 350 going in to surgery. We'll see how it goes but I appreciate your optimism and also feel optimistic about my chances.

[Berry78 4,261]

Whew! Dodged the bullet on that erroneous heart attack thing.. Doc: "Sir, I have good news! You didn't have a heart attack!" You: "What heart attack?"

Excellent plan losing as much as you can before surgery.... and Keto will get you there!