Do You Agree With Brad ??

[ELENATION 0]

I'm sure they have faith. I'm just not sure what's good about faith. I mean, if you have to have faith in something, it's because you don't have evidence. If you have evidence, you don't need faith. At least, that's how I look at it.

Yes, I agree that if you have evidence you don't need faith, but in my personal life I enjoying living by faith at least in some areas of my life... I like it, I also find it humbling and that has helped me grow as a human being ... it's weird, because when I hear people saying that a lot of Christians are intolerant and even mean....in my case, I was more intolerant when I lived by evidence, I really didn't humbly myself before, and I wanted to have evidence every time, now, I'm more understanding of people, their lives, their suffering, their misfortunes, I think I'm kinder now, so it has worked for me.... also it helps that I'm not a scientist....hehe because I don't confront those issues all the time and I'm glad I don't because I feel better about myself the way I am now.... but I understand that it doesn't work the same for everyone....and now I'm going to use a word that Wassa tought me yesterday....I'm no "fundie" LOL!

[ELENATION 0]

Please note, I did preface my comment that it was for me and me alone.

I wouldn't base real time issues on that kind of faith. People don't buy stocks with that kind of faith. They don't choose schools for their children on that kind of faith. They don't hire babysitters on that kind of faith. Things that have actual consequences people tend to use critical thinking skills and objective data. That's why for me I wouldn't feel any pride in having that type of faith.

And I quite agree with you, pretending to have faith would be pointless. But it still comes down to not being a choice. If I say I have faith, I really don't so that would be a lie. Faith and belief is not a choice. If I claimed I had either I'd be a liar.

Got you...I think that belief is a choice, faith...not...

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

...and now I'm going to use a word that Wassa tought me yesterday....I'm no "fundie" LOL!

Very true. I totally agree.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Got you...I think that belief is a choice, faith...not...

Perhaps. But I guess I'm not sure what the difference is.

[ELENATION 0]

Agreed. If one has facts they don't need faith. That's my big problem with faith. I want the facts.

You know...I understand you...I think it's a toughy.... because I like my faith, and I don't "have" to have proof....but it would be nice to have both in my case... even though certain events in my life have been so real that I could claim them as proof.... but I don't want to bore anyone with that....plus they are too personal.... but I think I could say that... I recognize that it's not easy to live by faith alone...

[ELENATION 0]

Very true. I totally agree.

LOL! I'm sending love waves your way.......!

[ELENATION 0]

Perhaps. But I guess I'm not sure what the difference is.

Neither am I really , I feel it in my heart and the thoughts are in my head, but I can't find the right words to explain the difference....

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Neither am I really , I feel it in my heart and the thoughts are in my head, but I can't find the right words to explain the difference....

My first thought is that either one don't have facts or they wouldn't be faith or belief, they'd be fact.

Lauren, you said they weren't the same. Thoughts?

[anonemouse 1]

My first thought is that either one don't have facts or they wouldn't be faith or belief, they'd be fact.

Lauren, you said they weren't the same. Thoughts?

Well, I guess it's just semantics. Faith, to me, is completely unsupported by fact or evidence. Belief, on the other hand, can be supported, in certain circumstance, depending on what the belief is. For example, I don't have faith in science, but I do believe in it. Religious people have both faith and belief, but neither can be supported by actual fact or evidence.

[ELENATION 0]

My first thought is that either one don't have facts or they wouldn't be faith or belief, they'd be fact.

Lauren, you said they weren't the same. Thoughts?

hhhmmm... belief's definition: "a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing", now if you believe in a person or thing that you can see in front of you, then you have facts.....

But faith alone, you just can't see any person or thing at all...

Then again, I also found this: "synonyms BELIEF, FAITH, CREDENCE, CREDIT mean assent to the truth of something offered for acceptance. BELIEF may or may not imply certitude in the believer <my belief that I had caught all the errors>. FAITH almost always implies certitude even where there is no evidence or proof "

So, I gues we'll leave it up to us....lol.

[ELENATION 0]

My first thought is that either one don't have facts or they wouldn't be faith or belief, they'd be fact.

Lauren, you said they weren't the same. Thoughts?

I'm going to add to my previous post that this debate is getting very complicated for me.... I'm starting to run out of words and explanations and remember, I'm a little cuban girl that came to this great country when I was 14 years old, graduated high school and finished a bachelors in business many, many years after, going to school at night to a community college and another college that is not even around anymore.... you guys seem extremely educated and I may have to drop off this debate..... please have a little mercy here....hehehe

and I'm not kidding either.....gee....lol

[anonemouse 1]

I'm going to add to my previous post that this debate is getting very complicated for me.... I'm starting to run out of words and explanations and remember, I'm a little cuban girl that came to this great country when I was 14 years old, graduated high school and finished a bachelors in business many, many years after, going to school at night to a community college and another college that is not even around anymore.... you guys seem extremely educated and I may have to drop off this debate..... please have a little mercy here....hehehe

and I'm not kidding either.....gee....lol

Don't worry about it, we all get confused. Hell, sometimes I confuse myself. For example, the earlier discussion over God and god.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I'm going to add to my previous post that this debate is getting very complicated for me.... I'm starting to run out of words and explanations and remember, I'm a little cuban girl that came to this great country when I was 14 years old, graduated high school and finished a bachelors in business many, many years after, going to school at night to a community college and another college that is not even around anymore.... you guys seem extremely educated and I may have to drop off this debate..... please have a little mercy here....hehehe

and I'm not kidding either.....gee....lol

I think you are holding your own just fine.

The topic will drift to something new in a few anyway so no worries. :Banane30:

I'm 45, educated, experienced in debate and I had to ask Lauren, a 24 y/o student the difference between belief and faith! I think we are in the same boat! HA!

[ELENATION 0]

I'm sure they have faith. I'm just not sure what's good about faith. I mean, if you have to have faith in something, it's because you don't have evidence. If you have evidence, you don't need faith. At least, that's how I look at it.

ouch! sorry about my grammar.....

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

And to add to my above post, when I have something important to me and it has to be correct I send it to Lauren to edit and fine tune first. Matter of fact she just did it for me yesterday.

Spelling and grammar are not my forte, I just don't remember the rules anymore. No excuse, I just don't.