Do You Agree With Brad ??

[ELENATION 0]

Yes, the American and Canadian psyche are very different: this is a largely secular country and we have legalised same sex marriage. Of course the weight of our population now resides in cities and urbanites do tend to be more "modern." Our rural folk are also very, very socially conservative.

This is not to say that Canada is a better country. We produce truly dreadful entertainment for the most part and it is for this reason that we spend most of our time watching American TV and movies. Or the Brit stuff. I spend exactly one hour per week watching our national television network, the CBC.

I believe that America has traditionally been viewed as the land of opportunity and as a generous hearted country, one which fosters creativity in all fields including the intellectual and financial arenas. Since the rise of the religious right, the invasion of Iraq, the numerous political gaffes of mini-Bush and his gang - and these are all documented in the foreign press - and the mishandling of the Katrina tragedy, America has lost much of its former lustre globally speaking. This is to be regretted. The rest of us in the West really do need a strong, wise and modern America.

With all due respect...

"Since the rise of the religious right, the invasion of Iraq, the numerous political gaffes of mini-Bush and his gang - and these are all documented in the foreign press - and the mishandling of the Katrina tragedy, America has lost much of its former lustre globally speaking. This is to be regretted. The rest of us in the West really do need a strong, wise and modern America"

THe foreign press? so far from accurate a lot of times.......Katrina could've been handled better, also by the local government... I respectfully disagree with each of the other statements that you made above...

But that's ok, that's why there is Canada and America we thankfully are able to live in our country of preference....

I couldn't agree more with Canadian entertainment....brutal...

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Ok then, so I was understanding correctly... if that trend continues, I agree it could be beneficial for non-christians... now better in general...? I don't know about that... I personally don't think it will be better...

Well, it is the extreme Christians that are trying to get laws passed that make it legal to discriminate against gays, for one example. And it wasn't the Wiccans that created laws way back when saying atheists could not run for a political office. It is that type of hate and ignorance that will ease quite a bit as Christianity drops in numbers.

Tell me something, if the best possible person ran for prez, someone that really would do a good job and people liked their ideas... think they would win if they were atheist?

I'll bet you a cyberdollar the Christian would win over the atheist based purely on religion. That just isn't healthy for any society. When people are voted in office based on religion, we get Bush types. That isn't helping our cause any.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Ok then, so I was understanding correctly... if that trend continues, I agree it could be beneficial for non-christians... now better in general...? I don't know about that... I personally don't think it will be better...

BTW... how, specifically, would it harm society for there to be fewer Christians?

[Wheetsin 714]

These individuals have commented that they are unable to come out about their lack of belief to their communities or even to their extended families because this would cause them to be shunned and they would, of course, lose their ability to earn a living as well.

Green - I live in one of the faded areas of the bible belt. I have never disclosed my atheism to an employer because I do think it would impact my employment status. For this same reason, I do not put any symbols of atheism on my car or person, even though most of the people around here would have no idea what they were looking at.

Religion has come up at workplace discussions and I'm honest. If asked I will tell the truth (when the situation is comfortable), otherwise I just don't say anything, or say something noncomittal such as "we're not religious people."

Once we were talking about how people are soiciting schools for things, and the example of the ppl distributing bibles on the first day of school came up. One of my coworkers asked, "What do you do with that? You can't exactly throw it away..." And I was like, "Why not? I do." She then wanted to know if that was considered a sin and I told her I had no idea. I think she got the idea.

In our neighborhood one year during the christmas season (we do the family things, gifts, tree sometimes, but don't acknowledge it as a christian day) we decorated our house like a candy house - gingerbread man fence, lollipop "garden", instead of regular lights we hung up ones that looked like giant candies, etc. It was terribly cute if I do say so myself. We received an anonymous letter "from the neighborhood" insisting that we take down our blasphemous decorations and REMEMBER THE REASON FOR THE SEASON (which is, of course, the sun... so go figure that one out). When we did not comply, we woke up one morning to find our decorations vandalized. People had cut or broken the heads off the gingerbread men, etc. So apparently it's "bad" to have decorations that aren't christian-centric, but it's AOK to trash others' property... I'm still trying to figure that one out.

We get people from the local Mormom & Baptist chruches knocking on our doors. I try to politely tell them it's not my cup of tea, and they don't understand. So I tell them "I don't believe in your god" and I guess they're not quite sure what to think. They will either walk away, or just kind of chuckle, as if I told a joke, and keep going. We purchased this plaque and placed it on our front door:

...and STILL have people come up. I guess they don't understand "no soliciting."

My parents know I am an atheist, and I'm pretty sure my grandmother knows even though I've never told her. They all go to the wsame church, and they have to notice that we're never there, or never busy on Sunday, etc. BUT, I have never made the statement "I am an atheist" to them. I would not have a problem with it, but I don't live there or have to deal with them on a daily basis. My parents do, so to make their lives easier, I don't make a point of talking about it. If it came up I would be 100% honest, but I don't volunteer the information.

In highschool I had a Darwin fish on my car, and one day discovered it had been ripped off (along with a good deal of paint.) In its place was a "WWJD" magnet. A neighbor told us that they saw who did it, but wouldn't tell us who it was because they went to the same church. Again, I can't express my atheism, but believers can destroy my property.

Sooo many examples.

America likes to think it's tolerant. And compared to America 50 years ago we are, in some ways. But by no means are we a country where deviants can feel comfortable.

[Wheetsin 714]

I should clarify, when I say "disclose...to an employer" I don't mean that I've been asked in some official capacity. I mean - when my boss and I are having a casual conversation and he (even though he shouldn't, but because we have a friendship he does) asks if we do a special mass since my family is Greek. For example.

We assume that people around us are like us. When we go to college, we assume our classmates are about our age, unless it's obvious they aren't. When you live in a neighborhood, you assume your neighbords are in a similar financial position to you, unless there's an extreme in place that makes it apparent.

[ELENATION 0]

Yes, but the extreme Christians do not represent all Christians...

I don't think someone could win based on religious belief only, but maybe a Christian or a religious candidate could probably win over an atheist and that is not fair, however, by Christianity dropping that doesn't mean that other religious groups wouldn't gain popularity, which doesn't help the atheists either...that's why I say that it won't necessarily mean that things in general will be better, but maybe what you are saying is that generally it will be more balanced?

[VegasGrace 1]

Religion is man made. There is only 1 God and he , I'm thinking, didn't use the word religion much...but don't know.

It's man who has turned things inside out, upside down...God is still the same.

If everyone was the same 'religion' then we probably wouldn't have that word ...there would not be any sense in it.

So, for 'religion' sake... yes, Mr. Pitt is right on.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Yes, but the extreme Christians do not represent all Christians...

I don't think someone could win based on religious belief only, but maybe a Christian or a religious candidate could probably win over an atheist and that is not fair, however, by Christianity dropping that doesn't mean that other religious groups wouldn't gain popularity, which doesn't help the atheists either...that's why I say that it won't necessarily mean that things in general will be better, but maybe what you are saying is that generally it will be more balanced?

Well, in all fairness to me :confused: I think we have established that the nutty types don't represent all of Christianity. They like to think they do but those with critical thinking skills know better.

I have a problem with anyone voting based on religion vs. political views. Religion should not play a role in this. That's just as personal as sexual position preferences. I don't think it should even BE known what religion someone is because it shouldn't play a role. But it does, it plays a huge role.

Other religious groups could well take over, that would be problematic. That is all the more reason to set standards hard and strong today keeping religion out of schools. Today maybe it would be Christianity. Tomorrow our future generations might be dancing naked under a may pole while chanting mantras vs. praying before a final.

School and religion should have nothing to do with one another.

[ELENATION 0]

BTW... how, specifically, would it harm society for there to be fewer Christians?

I'm not saying that it will harm society, but it wouldn't prevent other religions from taking over which may harm society, we just never know... that's why I don't think it will be generaly "better" or "worst"

[L8BloomR 1]

Well, here's the problem: You atheists are all living in the wrong state!! Come to California where, I swear, Christians are in the minority and all other beliefs or non-beliefs are exalted! We have Wiccan ceremonies, tree worshippers, crystal and magic shops near where I live and tons of people who still consider themselves "hippies".... what a place for a nice, traditional Christian girl to live, huh? So maybe the problem is not what you believe, but where you live?? :heh:

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Well, here's the problem: You atheists are all living in the wrong state!! Come to California where, I swear, Christians are in the minority and all other beliefs or non-beliefs are exalted! We have Wiccan ceremonies, tree worshippers, crystal and magic shops near where I live and tons of people who still consider themselves "hippies".... what a place for a nice, traditional Christian girl to live, huh? So maybe the problem is not what you believe, but where you live?? :heh:

You certainly have a point there.

Arizona isn't as bad as some states such as Colorado. I just don't discuss it in real time. If I am in a work situation and some little old lady is being wheeled into surgery and she asks me to pray for her... that's just not a time to have a discussion on religion. I bow my head with everyone else and instead of praying I'm thinking about if there is anything else I can do to make her more comfortable, if everything is set and ready to go, etc.

If I am pushed about what religion I am I say my religion is to be the best person I can be and I always strive to do better. If I am backed in a corner and I feel I have to respond for some reason I say I was raised Christian. People tend to assume I am as I was raised. It works.

[anonemouse 1]

You certainly have a point there.

Arizona isn't as bad as some states such as Colorado. I just don't discuss it in real time. If I am in a work situation and some little old lady is being wheeled into surgery and she asks me to pray for her... that's just not a time to have a discussion on religion. I bow my head with everyone else and instead of praying I'm thinking about if there is anything else I can do to make her more comfortable, if everything is set and ready to go, etc.

If I am pushed about what religion I am I say my religion is to be the best person I can be and I always strive to do better. If I am backed in a corner and I feel I have to respond for some reason I say I was raised Christian. People tend to assume I am as I was raised. It works.

Ditto. In real life, I've admitted my Atheism to very few people. I've lived in Tennessee/Kentucky my entire life, so you could imagine how well it would go over in most situations. I've talked about it with my old roomie and her boyfriend/fiance/hubby/ex-hubby/whatever, and they were very accepting of it, even curious (they were both Mormon). I've also come out and explained it to the folks that come to my door to try and convert me. Of course, I'm not so nice with them. It's always fun to show them how much they don't know about evolution, science, and Atheism ('cause invariably, they know absolutely nothing, or at least only know misinformation that they've been given by other religious people).

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

I once had two guys demand to see my hands. Apparently if I lack belief in their God then the sign of Satan should be on my hands.

I showed 'em my hands, they still went running anyway as though I was gonna poke them with my pitchfork or something.

[ELENATION 0]

Well, here's the problem: You atheists are all living in the wrong state!! Come to California where, I swear, Christians are in the minority and all other beliefs or non-beliefs are exalted! We have Wiccan ceremonies, tree worshippers, crystal and magic shops near where I live and tons of people who still consider themselves "hippies".... what a place for a nice, traditional Christian girl to live, huh? So maybe the problem is not what you believe, but where you live?? :heh:

gee....I'm moving with you! do you have an extra room there for me? hehehehe...

How could I possibly pass on those lifestyles? they sound so wonderful...NOT...

[anonemouse 1]

When I spent the summer on Cape Cod in 2004, I was amazed at how much more accepting the people there were. It really made me want to go back, maybe even live there full-time. You see, a lot of the tourism in that area is based on gays, since Provincetown is a major location for gay marriages, being a primarily gay town. They have to be accepting, or they don't get business. Even for a straight person, it was liberating, since I know what it's like to be discriminated against for something that I can't change (my Atheism, of course).

In contrast, before I went I was telling my GP (at the time, I was on medication that required monthly visits) about my plans, and he felt (as a good Christian man, of course) required to warn me about Provincetown, about all the "dykes walking around with other dykes on leashes." And that's an exact quote. Nice Christian man he was, huh?