Another Patient Death at A Lighter Me (ALM) with Dr. Jose Luis Curiel Marchena

[Sandy Johnson 15]

Your quote, "some surgeons are a bit more picky on whom they operate on". Very true! They want the easy money without having to work with the more difficult higher risk patients that despartly need help!

Alex I think you mentioned your in TJ right now? Want to meet for coffee? What hotel are you staying at?

I'm done on the Bariatric Pal forum. PM me if you're interested. Let's straighten this out!

Over and out!

[HeatherS. 230]

8 minutes ago, Sandy Johnson said:

Your quote, "some surgeons are a bit more picky on whom they operate on". Very true! They want the easy money without having to work with the more difficult higher risk patients that despartly need help!

Alex I think you mentioned your in TJ right now? Want to meet for coffee? What hotel are you staying at?

I'm done on the Bariatric Pal forum. PM me if you're interested. Let's straighten this out!

Over and out!

One last thing: surgeons who are more picky and require effort on the part of the patient do so BECAUSE THEY WANT THEIR PATIENTS TO SURVIVE. Taking all comers regardless of their likelihood of survival is outright unethical when a doctor could, instead, refuse until they comply in a way that improves their chances.

I personally don't care whether you verify or not that the death happened. Your hostility, opinion of surgeons who care that their patients have the best opportunity to survive, and your rudeness have already spoken volumes about you and your business.

[sammy246 235]

1 hour ago, B.Annie said:

I'm confused as to why this is an argument.
#1 there are very big risks to this surgery. We all are informed of that going in. We do it for the reward in spite of the risk. So someone died. Tragic event and all together possible. Why deny this one when we know it's a risk?
#2 how hard is it to sign a contract saying you'll bring an adult companion with you to Mexico and then bring a teen companion? Saying it's not possible to bring a teen is like saying it's not possible to lie. Goodness.
#3 Not every surgeon has deaths for the simple fact that some Surgeons are a bit more picky on whom they operate on - agreeing to less risky patients or requiring patients take steps to become less risky (ex. lose weight) prior to authorization. If you haven't seen "my 600 pound life" where it discusses surgeons who refuse to operate on certain individuals, then you haven't done the most basic of research. Though asking your own surgeon is probably easier. People go to Mexico for surgery usually because they want a cheaper and more easily approved surgery with a surgeon who won't deny them so quickly or require more effort on the patient part before hand. The fact that more people die on a table with this route is the risk you take when you choose cheap and "easy" over harder and more expensive. If you're shocked by it, then I fear you haven't considered common sense.
HW: 328 (02/22/17)
SW: TBD
CW: 292

The problem is that they will not be forthcoming. If she would have just said that "YES, they had a death, however blah blah blah risk is associated with surgery and here are all of the steps we take to ensure this is not a common occurrence" there would be an argument. This is basic PR that they are failing at and there has to be a reason for this over reaction and poor handling of communication from them after.

They are dodging, hiding, and being defensive. I personally do not support surgery tourism at all, for this very reason. This place is shady and should be avoided at all costs. They need to own up to what happened and provide answers.

[Pants2830 13]

Why would anyone go to Mexico for any type of medical treatment? Its Mexico, hello!

[Berry78 4,261]

I believe people are the same, no matter what side of some random political border they reside. Good ones, bad ones, and everything in between.

If a haircut cost 1/3 as much on the other side of the train tracks, I'd be heading over there too.

[HeatherS. 230]

5 hours ago, Pants2830 said:

Why would anyone go to Mexico for any type of medical treatment? Its Mexico, hello!

Because there are some very good and experienced surgeons down there who perform the same surgery for a fraction of the price.

Not everyone in the US has medical insurance, and many insurance companies eliminate coverage for bariatric procedures because they can get away with it.

Medical Tourism, just like domestic medical, involves doing your homework about the organization and surgeon and making sure you're scrupulous about aftercare. And just like domestic surgery, there will be some great businesses, some who give the bare minimum, and some who need to be shut down.

There's really no reason to come on the SURGERY IN MEXICO forum just to say you, personally, don't believe in medical tourism at all.

Why would anyone completely change their plan because one random person on the internet has the opinion that an entire country's population is substandard?

[Clementine Sky 708]

7 hours ago, Pants2830 said:

Why would anyone go to Mexico for any type of medical treatment? Its Mexico, hello!

My husband is a physician at a top-ranked Los Angeles hospital, and it's not uncommon for their patients to decide to make the short trek down to Mexico for a myriad of treatments, because of the extreme difference in costs for comparable care. Even with top-of-the-line insurance the costs can be astronomical. Medical tourism has become so common that several US insurance companies now provide coverage for it. The Canadian government has reimbursed some of the costs affiliated with bariatric surgery for their citizens who have it in Mexico, mainly to avoid the lengthy wait periods (in some areas it can be a decade's wait). It's not just WLS, but cancer treatment, orthopedic surgeries, and a whole host of other medical issues that people seek treatments for, and so long as the facility and doctors they chose are reputable, the outcome can be comparable. It's why it's imperative to do due diligence when researching and considering any type of surgery, in the US, Mexico, or anywhere else.

I personally went to Mexico for the VSG because my BMI was under 35, and even if I gained weight I still would not have met my insurance's eligibility requirements because my conditions (PCOS and hypothyroidism) did not qualify. My endocrinologist had recommended the VSG to me to boost fertility, and said that other women my age and size had successful outcomes with the surgery. I first consulted with local surgeons, and the quotes given were $29,000 to $35,000. I would have had to pay this entirely out of pocket. I then asked my doctor if she ever had any patients who went to Mexico for surgery, and she said she did. She'd apparently made a wildly inaccurate assumption about how much money I have, which is why she hadn't mentioned that option to me at first and instead had recommended the local surgeons I saw. She agreed to provide me with all follow-up care for having the VSG in Tijuana. The total cost of my surgery was $4200, which included two nights at the Marriott. I had no complications, and a very positive experience. That was 18 months ago. I've been maintaining at a size 2-4 for about six months. Many of my issues with PCOS have been alleviated.

Just the other day I was reading on here about someone's surgery costing $70,000. $70,000 vs. $4200. Surgical complications and deaths can occur at any facility. At the hospital where my husband works patients died due to medical equipment that hadn't been properly cleaned (the fault mainly lying with the manufacturer of the equipment for providing inaccurate directions on how to clean it) and caused massive infections. Healthy young people have died during routine surgeries right here in the US. Teenagers have died having their wisdom teeth removed, most often from an underlying medical condition unknown at the time. People have died from blood clots after very routine procedures. Joan Rivers died in NY from an unexpected complication to a minor surgery.

I'm not at all surprised that a patient died after / during bariatric surgery. What needs to happen is for the surgeon's office and the coordinators working with him to be transparent about what happened. That's what other reputable facilities / surgeons have done after a death - provide the factual information about what happened. What looks shady is obfuscation.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Clementine Sky

[Sherrie Scharbrough 311]

Sometimes people who go to Mexico just don't have an insureance that covers WLS!! To state that people are taking the easy and cheapest way out isn't very fair. Legit people go because it is an option that they can get their WLS done.

[k-athy 10]

11 hours ago, Clementine Sky said:

My husband is a physician at a top-ranked Los Angeles hospital, and it's not uncommon for their patients to decide to make the short trek down to Mexico for a myriad of treatments, because of the extreme difference in costs for comparable care. Even with top-of-the-line insurance the costs can be astronomical. Medical Tourism has become so common that several US insurance companies now provide coverage for it. The Canadian government has reimbursed some of the costs affiliated with bariatric surgery for their citizens who have it in Mexico, mainly to avoid the lengthy wait periods (in some areas it can be a decade's wait). It's not just WLS, but cancer treatment, orthopedic surgeries, and a whole host of other medical issues that people seek treatments for, and so long as the facility and doctors they chose are reputable, the outcome can be comparable. It's why it's imperative to do due diligence when researching and considering any type of surgery, in the US, Mexico, or anywhere else.

I personally went to Mexico for the VSG because my BMI was under 35, and even if I gained weight I still would not have met my insurance's eligibility requirements because my conditions (PCOS and hypothyroidism) did not qualify. My endocrinologist had recommended the VSG to me to boost fertility, and said that other women my age and size had successful outcomes with the surgery. I first consulted with local surgeons, and the quotes given were $29,000 to $35,000. I would have had to pay this entirely out of pocket. I then asked my doctor if she ever had any patients who went to Mexico for surgery, and she said she did. She'd apparently made a wildly inaccurate assumption about how much money I have, which is why she hadn't mentioned that option to me at first and instead had recommended the local surgeons I saw. She agreed to provide me with all follow-up care for having the VSG in Tijuana. The total cost of my surgery was $4200, which included two nights at the Marriott. I had no complications, and a very positive experience. That was 18 months ago. I've been maintaining at a size 2-4 for about six months. Many of my issues with PCOS have been alleviated.

Just the other day I was reading on here about someone's surgery costing $70,000. $70,000 vs. $4200. Surgical complications and deaths can occur at any facility. At the hospital where my husband works patients died due to medical equipment that hadn't been properly cleaned (the fault mainly lying with the manufacturer of the equipment for providing inaccurate directions on how to clean it) and caused massive infections. Healthy young people have died during routine surgeries right here in the US. Teenagers have died having their wisdom teeth removed, most often from an underlying medical condition unknown at the time. People have died from blood clots after very routine procedures. Joan Rivers died in NY from an unexpected complication to a minor surgery.

I'm not at all surprised that a patient died after / during bariatric surgery. What needs to happen is for the surgeon's office and the coordinators working with him to be transparent about what happened. That's what other reputable facilities / surgeons have done after a death - provide the factual information about what happened. What looks shady is obfuscation.

If you don't mind me asking, who was your surgeon? I am looking into surgery in Mexico.

[B.Annie 290]

Sometimes people who go to Mexico just don't have an insureance that covers WLS!! To state that people are taking the easy and cheapest way out isn't very fair. Legit people go because it is an option that they can get their WLS done.

How is saying it's the easiest and cheapest way offensive when you said so yourself that some people don't have WLS insurance so they go to Mexico to be able to afford it? That's exactly what I'm saying, It's the cheapest route! I have no idea why you're trying to make what I said a bad thing when it's only the truth for a lot of people.

It's also the easiest route for those who have been refused in the states due to risk factors. Instead of working to become less risky or deciding against the surgery, they go to Mexico. Again, don't try to make that offensive when it's the truth for a lot of people. The first sentence of my original post said I was confused as to why it was an argument. Because it is all rather normal and expected if you have common sense. It's not a battle against those who chose Mexico. It's a statement of common sense FOR those who chose Mexico. Patients aren't unaware of the risks. Which is why I was confused as to why people were arguing about a death/minor companion/etc.

HW: 328 (02/22/17)

SW: TBD

CW: 288

Pounds disowned to date: 40

[RickM 1,747]

On 4/21/2017 at 1:40 PM, Sandy Johnson said:

By the way, the chief surgeon for ALM is the number 1 Bariatric surgeon in North America, a fact!

By what measure(s) is #1 decided? By volume, McDonald's is the #1 restaurant in North America. Are you equating the two?

Overall, the sniping between promoters on this thread isn't doing the overall business of medical tourism any good at all.

[Please 188]

On 2017-04-20 at 0:39 PM, Alex Brecher said:

I'm in Tijuana at the moment and found out that there's been another Patient Death at ALM (ALM) with Dr. Jose Luis Curiel Marchena . The patient death occurred about 3-4 weeks ago. A mother traveled with her 14-year-old daughter to have weight loss surgery in Tijuana. The patient bled out during surgery and passed away. I found out about this from my contact at the US Consulate here in Tijuana. The consulate didn't know how to handle the situation since the daughter was a minor and all alone in Tijuana.

You said she travelled with her Mother, then at the end, you said she travelled alone?

[Please 188]

1 hour ago, RickM said:

By what measure(s) is #1 decided? By volume, McDonald's is the #1 restaurant in North America. Are you equating the two?

Overall, the sniping between promoters on this thread isn't doing the overall business of Medical Tourism any good at all.

Well my Doctor also would say that was a fact about him as well, what Doctor wouldn't.

[HeatherS. 230]

12 minutes ago, Please said:

You said she travelled with her Mother, then at the end, you said she travelled alone?

She was alone because her mother had just died.

[HeatherS. 230]

12 minutes ago, Please said:

Well my Doctor also would say that was a fact about him as well, what Doctor wouldn't.

Most doctors. My doc is the head of the dept for a huge health organization, and he'll be the first to admit he's a fantastic surgeon with a ton of experience, but he knows better than to make egotistical unverifiable claims like that. (Unless, possibly, while joking. He's a card.)