Did you have to exercise up to 2hrs and 15mins or equivalent it to 5000 steps everyday to be cleared by your psych?

[nyseness 76]

During my Psych review he asked if I exercised, but nothing that was mandatory. He was more concerned with my mental state than anything else. Took a few hours and I did some testing. However, I do know generally speaking most doctors recommend 10K steps per day. My PCP used to tell me this way before I even thought of surgery. Basically they want you to keep moving, not necessarily exercising. I work at a desk job so I'm pretty much sitting all day. Now I make sure I get up every hour and walk around the office, take the stairs, just anything to move.

[Navigating the Wilderness 824]

Two words:

f**k

That

Seriously, I had horrible back problems before surgery, there is no way I could have even done a tenth of a mile every day. Having the surgery has allowed me lose weight to the point where walking a mile is no problem, and even fun. I think it is a stupid arbitrary number. I never exercised before surgery. That WAS the point of surgery! If I could walk 2.5 miles a day I would not have had to look at surgical options to begin with.

Please tell the psych that some random dude on this site thinks she is a f**king idiot.

It especially bothers me when you know dam well the psych has never had to go through what we do.

[HeatherS. 230]

4 minutes ago, Navigating the Wilderness said:

Two words:

f**k

That

Seriously, I had horrible back problems before surgery, there is no way I could have even done a tenth of a mile every day. Having the surgery has allowed me lose weight to the point where walking a mile is no problem, and even fun. I think it is a stupid arbitrary number. I never exercised before surgery. That WAS the point of surgery! If I could walk 2.5 miles a day I would not have had to look at surgical options to begin with.

Please tell the psych that some random dude on this site thinks she is a f**king idiot.

It especially bothers me when you know dam well the psych has never had to go through what we do.

This, basically. Part of the reason I needed the surgery so urgently was to hopefully alleviate the other health issues I have which made vigorous or drawn out exercise dangerous.

When i I was faithfully doing the hour-plus my then-advisor mandated at the beginning of my pre-surgery class, I ended up in the ER twice and wrecked my not-quite-wrecked-yet knee to boot. A new advisor later, I did what I could consistently, qualified for the surgery, and am already seeing improved quality of life three weeks after my surgery.

The will was always there. The flesh, on the other hand, was too fragile under all the extra weight.

[blizair09 3,250]

21 minutes ago, Navigating the Wilderness said:

Two words:

f**k

That

Seriously, I had horrible back problems before surgery, there is no way I could have even done a tenth of a mile every day. Having the surgery has allowed me lose weight to the point where walking a mile is no problem, and even fun. I think it is a stupid arbitrary number. I never exercised before surgery. That WAS the point of surgery! If I could walk 2.5 miles a day I would not have had to look at surgical options to begin with.

Please tell the psych that some random dude on this site thinks she is a f**king idiot.

It especially bothers me when you know dam well the psych has never had to go through what we do.

When I was working on my PhD, I taught at a community college for the college teaching experience (and for the extra money). One thing I noticed pretty quickly was that many of the tenured instructors were always so harsh with the students. They automatically believed the students were lying no matter what the situation. This came about after years of hearing excuses and legitimate lies, watching the rampant financial aid abuse, and engaging with the myriad of other issues that come along with teaching at a community college. At 25 years old, I was appalled at that worldview. At 41 years old, I still don't agree with it, but I get it.

I think the WLS world is similar. A lot of these personnel from the NUTs up to the surgeons themselves have heard and seen so much bullshit from people who are never going to rise to the occasion and do what they need to be successful that they formulate these jaded opinions. I'm not saying that everyone is this way, but it is probably very prevalent.

[Navigating the Wilderness 824]

I get what you are saying @blizair09, but of all the people who should put up exercise goals, the absolute last should be the psych. The only job they should serve is to make sure the patient is mentally stable enough for surgery and understands all the pros and cons that go along with it. Walking 5000 steps per day accomplishes neither of those goals. If the patients need someone to ride their asses about exercise, they can hire a personal trainer. In my opinion the Psych should play 0 role in that. If the person needs some guidance and emotional support before/after the surgery, then that is fine, but mandatory exercise should not play any role in determining the mental fitness of a person to undergo any WLS procedure.

Let's agree here that the end result is pretty much 100% on the patient to make the right choices. Forcing them to exercise probably will not play much of a role in that. In fact if they are forced to exercise I would be willing to bet there would be a subconscious negative feeling toward exercising in the future.

Last note @blizair09, this of course in not directed in anyway toward you buddy, I find your stories to be amazing and truly enjoy your insight.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Navigating the Wilderness

[HeatherS. 230]

13 minutes ago, blizair09 said:

When I was working on my PhD, I taught at a community college for the college teaching experience (and for the extra money). One thing I noticed pretty quickly was that many of the tenured instructors were always so harsh with the students. They automatically believed the students were lying no matter what the situation. This came about after years of hearing excuses and legitimate lies, watching the rampant financial aid abuse, and engaging with the myriad of other issues that come along with teaching at a community college. At 25 years old, I was appalled at that worldview. At 41 years old, I still don't agree with it, but I get it.

I think the WLS world is similar. A lot of these personnel from the NUTs up to the surgeons themselves have heard and seen so much bullshit from people who are never going to rise to the occasion and do what they need to be successful that they formulate these jaded opinions. I'm not saying that everyone is this way, but it is probably very prevalent.

Prevalent, I agree, but truly unfortunate. This is going to be a mini rant, but not at you, blizair09.

Its "professionals" like that who set students AND patients up for failure. I almost quit my pre-surgery classes because I, as a fellow adult professional, couldn't tolerate being "bup-bup-bup"ed and told "just follow the plan" any time I asked for clarification or explanation.

If you're a professional, you really need to learn to treat your clients with a baseline of respect. If they lose your respect? Fine.

Its especially unforgivable in the medical profession where that kind of arrogance costs (mainly) women their lives every day.

Grr!

[blizair09 3,250]

@Navigating the Wilderness @HeatherS

I agree with both of you. While people do need a reality check (and often a good kick in the ass), compassion and empathy need to be at the heart of all aspects of this journey. (Just don't get me started on the newest "everyone criticizes" thread. I wouldn't get in the middle of that hornet's nest to be at goal tomorrow! )

[MowryRocks 679]

I had an issue with my NUT who did not believe that I was walking 5-7 miles per day pre surgery. It would go something like this?

NUT: What are you doing for exercise?

Me: Walking 5-7 miles per day.

Nut: ***Side Eye, look me up and down,*** "mmmmmhmmmm"

Me: I mean not like at one time, but I walk a mile at least 3 times per day at work then 1-2 miles when I get home, not to mention my in between walking just to get from one place to the next.

Nut: ***Side Eye, look me up and down,*** "mmmmmhmmmm"

Me: I can let you look at my fitbit stats, if you like.

Nut: ***Side Eye, look me up and down,*** "that's not necessary"

Me: are you sure, I don't mind.

Nut: What's your diet like?

Me: I eat 1200 cal per day, modified Keto, except on Saturdays when I eat what I want, but still keep it under 1200 cal per day.

Nut: ***Side Eye, look me up and down,*** "mmmmmhmmmm"

It was exhausting. My psych eval was stupid, pointless and literally was a check yes or no list.

[PatientEleventyBillion 851]

5 hours ago, Navigating the Wilderness said:

Two words:

f**k

That

Seriously, I had horrible back problems before surgery, there is no way I could have even done a tenth of a mile every day. Having the surgery has allowed me lose weight to the point where walking a mile is no problem, and even fun. I think it is a stupid arbitrary number. I never exercised before surgery. That WAS the point of surgery! If I could walk 2.5 miles a day I would not have had to look at surgical options to begin with.

Please tell the psych that some random dude on this site thinks she is a f**king idiot.

It especially bothers me when you know dam well the psych has never had to go through what we do.

Yeah, I was given this goal of 10k steps a day, not as a requisite for anything, but because "it was healthy". Problem was, I had fractures in my L5/S1 vertebrae. I couldn't take out the trash without it absolutely killing my back. My step counter said I averaged a meager 800 steps as a result. 10k steps = more injured back, until a competent doctor came along (my internist), did tests and an x-ray and MRI on my back and found the fracture. Then I've had facet joint injections into my back since which immediately enabled me to reach 3000-6000 steps on a daily basis. A terrible health provider won't look for underlying causes for things. A good one will.

[Tiale 20]

Yeah, I was given this goal of 10k steps a day, not as a requisite for anything, but because "it was healthy". Problem was, I had fractures in my L5/S1 vertebrae. I couldn't take out the trash without it absolutely killing my back. My step counter said I averaged a meager 800 steps as a result. 10k steps = more injured back, until a competent doctor came along (my internist), did tests and an x-ray and MRI on my back and found the fracture. Then I've had facet joint injections into my back since which immediately enabled me to reach 3000-6000 steps on a daily basis. A terrible health provider won't look for underlying causes for things. A good one will.

For me I'm an incomplete quadriplegic C4-C7 I may not be able to walk 5000 steps on a daily basis but I can walk 300ft with crutches without getting tired and I also try to convert it like they tell me too. 1000 steps is 15mins. So I do other things, I think it that shows the initiative that yes this patient is trying...yeah she's not reaching 5000 but is constantly aiming at all even if it's 2000 or 3000. I'm not looking for her sympathy I just want her to be realistic. I researched or tried to find someone in a wheelchair that had surgery, I only found 1. Thank God she documented her before and after, she was a complete paraplegic. So like I stated earlier, what if there was someone else that wanted to surgery that was in a wheelchair, and feeling hopeless...what would they do? Yes movement is key, it's the fact on how long you can actively move continuously continuously at a rate the you can't achieve?

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[Tiale 20]

[mention=303109]Navigating the Wilderness[/mention] [mention=203116]HeatherS[/mention]
I agree with both of you. While people do need a reality check (and often a good kick in the ass), compassion and empathy need to be at the heart of all aspects of this journey. (Just don't get me started on the newest "everyone criticizes" thread. I wouldn't get in the middle of that hornet's nest to be at goal tomorrow! [emoji4])

Your right some people need a good kick in the ass! I mean you see someone making a big change, passed your psych eval, is losing weight on every visit. Wouldn't you think the person is trying....? Lol I sooooo wanted to run her over [emoji23][emoji23] its like are you enjoying the $200 per visit the insurance is paying you, so you're gonna add more visits. I just wish she would be realistic.

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[BigUtahMan 207]

I think she is totally off base. I would simply tell her what she wants to hear, as you are not going to win trying to correct her her poor counsel.

[hermione53 157]

I also think your psychologist is being completely ridiculous. Mine did heavily emphasize exercise, but this was mostly to get me going on the habit of it pre-op. He did not judge me when I didn't exercise and did not have any exercise requirement for approving me for surgery. I'm now consistently hitting 11,000 steps a day but had to get into physical therapy to deal with knee pain one month post-op. I'd suggest trying to see that other psychologist if you can. Good luck!

[MarinaGirl 609]

Info per various Exercise Science Experts/Professors:

Exercise is great for so many reasons; anti-aging, help with depression, lower the risk for heart disease and cancer, reduce risk and complications of diabetes, and you can even grow new brain cells. What it can't do is cause you to lose weight. The data simply does not support the use of exercise as a primary tool for getting thin. People don't understand that it is very difficult to exercise enough to lose weight. If that's why you're doing it, you're going to fail. Why? You don't burn enough calories unless you're Michael Phelps (for example). Fact is, you only burn 300 calories a half hour, if that. As well, mounting evidence suggests that exercise makes us hungry and that we wind up eating more extra calories in response to that hunger than we burn up doing the exercise that makes us hungry in the first place.

While exercise by itself is fairly useless for losing weight, it appears to be critical to keeping the weight off once you've lost it.

[HeatherS. 230]

9 minutes ago, MarinaGirl said:

Info per various Exercise Science Experts/Professors:

Exercise is great for so many reasons; anti-aging, help with depression, lower the risk for heart disease and cancer, reduce risk and complications of diabetes, and you can even grow new brain cells. What it can't do is cause you to lose weight. The data simply does not support the use of exercise as a primary tool for getting thin. People don't understand that it is very difficult to exercise enough to lose weight. If that's why you're doing it, you're going to fail. Why? You don't burn enough calories unless you're Michael Phelps (for example). Fact is, you only burn 300 calories a half hour, if that. As well, mounting evidence suggests that exercise makes us hungry and that we wind up eating more extra calories in response to that hunger than we burn up doing the exercise that makes us hungry in the first place.

While exercise by itself is fairly useless for losing weight, it appears to be critical to keeping the weight off once you've lost it.

Weight-bearing exercise, in particular, is important for strong bones and muscles. Muscle burns more than fat, which means you want more muscle. That's pretty straightforward. As MarinaGirl says though, studies on exercise as the primary method of weight loss have found that it's not terribly effective. For quality of life, yes. Weight loss, no.