Disgusted

[Greensleevie 451]

2 hours ago, MBird said:

What does it matter if I've had the surgery or not, if I'm pre op or not?! As if I've never dieted in my entire life????? As if I've never had health issues due to my weight? As if I can't read online or in books what to expect and use critical thinking?

I'm fine with discussion until it gets personal. I expressed an opinion not directed at post ops in general or any one person but based off something I observed in the forums. I'm sorry that rubs you wrong. I'm still entitled to expressing a very real feeling. This forum is for everybody to open and invite discussion. Sadly a lot of people lack the skills to think critically and not make it about them.

If you can't handle it, I suggest you don't read my thread. Honestly, you're incredibly rude, as are many of the people who have replied to my thread. The rudeness doesn't just extend to myself but others who replied as well.

I'm fine with opposing views but not when they fly from the fingers of big babies who can't handle an opposing or different opinion than their own.

You're incredibly rude.

My apologies to anybody who has been attacked on here, my intent was to open a discussion, not invite stupidity and hatred. Or take the discussion off topic.

I don't pretend to know about driving race cars because I've never driven a race car.

I don't claim to be an expert on skydiving because although I can research anything and everything about skydiving to my hearts content, I still haven't EXPERIENCED skydiving, so I'm more apt to take the advice and expertise from someone who has.

That's all I'm saying.

It's really quite arrogant to come into these threads and pretend to know it all when you haven't even EXPERIENCED the actual event yet. Therefore, people should take anything you say with a grain of salt.

[MBird 298]

I don't pretend to know about driving race cars because I've never driven a race car.

I don't claim to be an expert on skydiving because although I can research anything and everything about skydiving to my hearts content, I still haven't EXPERIENCED skydiving, so I'm more apt to take the advice and expertise from someone who has.

That's all I'm saying.

It's really quite arrogant to come into these threads and pretend to know it all when you haven't even EXPERIENCED the actual event yet. Therefore, people should take anything you say with a grain of salt.

Okay, have a nice day. Bye.

[MBird 298]

I don't pretend to know about driving race cars because I've never driven a race car.
I don't claim to be an expert on skydiving because although I can research anything and everything about skydiving to my hearts content, I still haven't EXPERIENCED skydiving, so I'm more apt to take the advice and expertise from someone who has.
That's all I'm saying.
It's really quite arrogant to come into these threads and pretend to know it all when you haven't even EXPERIENCED the actual event yet. Therefore, people should take anything you say with a grain of salt.

Also the things I'll be dealing with post op are nothing Ive not dealt with before. Yes, it's a bit different but a similar foundation.

[MBird 298]

I think there is a major difference between a vet who has kept 70+ lbs off because they are years out and their stomach has fully healed and they are adults who know their limits with "normal" food and newbies who come on the forums asking if not following your pre op diet is bad, or how soon after surgery can you have pizza- which I have seen. Of course I want to reply back with a lecture but I've just had surgery 2 days ago so I don't feel it's my place.
It is extremely frustrating because the Facebook groups are bullshit too. [emoji45] just gotta pick your battles I believe.

I can understand that. And I agree. I don't lecture people doing what you described, like you don't feel it's my place. Though, I feel it's okay to help by giving an honest feedback based on my experience. It's still helping. Maybe someone listens.

At the end of the day I think you nailed it, it's about picking and choosing battles. AlI can do is my best. Hopefully lead my example, at least try.

Thanks for your thoughts, and sorry I was snippy. I wish you the absolute best with your sleeve

[Clementine Sky 708]

On 4/6/2017 at 10:24 AM, CrowMilk said:

While completely cutting out foods might work for you and others, it's not a one stop fix. For myself, as well as others, I don't have an issue with a particular food; it's always been about eating too much in general.

So, I feel okay in eating some foods that others would say "no way!" to, it doesn't mean I'm not going to be successful in losing weight, just that I'm on a different road than you are.

I agree. I strictly followed the guidelines in the first month when my stomach was still healing because I viewed that more as a prescription than a diet, but beyond that my focus was on cultivating sustainable habits, which for me meant not prohibiting any foods. When something becomes a proverbial forbidden fruit, the temptation for it tends to intensify. In the past I rapidly lost weight and then gained even more back even more speedily when I binged all that I'd deprived myself of while dieting. In the time following properly healing from the VSG I've had cheesecake, Diet Coke, pizza, Chinese food - all the things that make the naughty list, but the substantial difference is that I've had them rarely, and in far smaller portions. I lost weight at a slower pace than many (a perk of that has been no loose skin), but exceeded all my goals and have maintained a size XS / 2. I do urge people who post on this forum to follow the guidelines in their first month out, because the risks of harm are too high then. Beyond that, everyone needs to figure out what works the best for their own success.

[lf1227 129]

I can understand that. And I agree. I don't lecture people doing what you described, like you don't feel it's my place. Though, I feel it's okay to help by giving an honest feedback based on my experience. It's still helping. Maybe someone listens.

At the end of the day I think you nailed it, it's about picking and choosing battles. AlI can do is my best. Hopefully lead my example, at least try.

Thanks for your thoughts, and sorry I was snippy. I wish you the absolute best with your sleeve [emoji4]

Hey, no problem! I agree with what you said... some people seem to be a bit sensitive tho lol. I don't really think you were rude you just have an opinion like the rest of us! And good luck to you too doll!

[PatientEleventyBillion 851]

The first problem for OP was using Facebook. Social media is a pure example of the shift of the populace to polarization, and the proverbial chopping their nuts off in the inability of handling opinions they don't like or are offended by.

The lesson to be learned from that is plenty of people will act stupid, it's your job to ensure you aren't. If people don't like hearing or reading opinions that offend them, that's their problem. The body doesn't respond whatsoever to being PC. It responds to lifestyle changes.

[CrowMilk 96]

The only problem I had with the entire post was assuming that the people asking those questions were addicts, self-imdulgent, ignorant, etc. That cannot be known. I agree completely that brand new post-ops probably shouldn't be asking about those foods, but I don't see it as "disgusting". That is it. I'm sorry if you thought I was rude.

[Clementine Sky 708]

I've never participated in any Facebook group for WLS, but have read numerous threads on this forum from people asking when they can eat ______ (insert notoriously unhealthy food or drink here) post-op, and have never felt disgusted or frustrated by them. Quite to the contrary, I am glad the person has the forethought to ask their questions rather than to just eat whatever they are craving and not seek any advice or feedback about it first. It's especially important during the crucial first few weeks post-op when the stomach is still healing and you're very vulnerable to substantial harm from eating improperly to be fully equipped with knowledge about the risks. By asking the question, you can gain that awareness, often through personal experiences or anecdotes that will resonate more coming from a community than from a nutritionist who may not have ever had WLS herself / himself. It certainly kept me in line. Reading about someone needing surgery to remove food she'd eaten too soon kept me from making that mistake. For those who are more advanced and can safely eat most foods, I try to make recommendations for healthier alternatives that might still be satisfying. Or encourage them to look up the nutritional stats for whatever they're craving and consider if it's worthwhile. If it is, then it can be planned for so that it doesn't derail progress.

I think success following WLS is about about psychology nearly as much as it is physiology. For many food has served as a hobby, a joy, a comfort during times of stress, a companion in loneliness. The thought of forever being deprived of a beloved food can discourage some from proceeding with surgery, or lead to self-destructive actions like "food funerals" where they binge pre-op on all that they love. I think it can be a relief to know that they can have those foods, but not until after they've fully healed, and in much smaller quantities on far rarer occasions. At least for me it was. Maybe it was a case of reverse psychology because, paradoxically, knowing that I could eat something I loved actually made me crave it less. I didn't feel deprived. During my first month post-op I had fierce head hunger and obsessed about foods I ordinarily wouldn't even want. I told myself that when I hit specific goals I could have what I craved, but by the time I hit those goals interest had often waned.

[Sosewsue61 3,185]

There is a difference between education and experience, nothing like experience to sometimes get a painful education. Use kind words whenever you can, blame and shame might have contributed to the reason we need weight loss surgery in the first place.

[jaminator 262]

Man....OP seems super pissy. Probably as bad as the people she is complaining about....

[maggieO 33]

Pump up da drama... Lol let's all sing

[VSG4Mag 106]

On 4/6/2017 at 1:49 PM, Newme17 said:

Not entirely true. Be open to the science and why this is a myth. Also, I gained weight from NOT ENOUGH CALORIES-but entirely the wrong food choices and I regularly exercise. My doc was always on to me for not eating enough. Check out the why.

https://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

Great article, thanks.

[Clementine Sky 708]

On 4/6/2017 at 10:37 AM, AmandaTherese said:

Wait... question and this is a question I've posed for myself... why would you go to extremes of getting this gift... this wonderful tool to keep eating the same things that got you to needing surgery in the first place? It scares me that I might. To make that conscious decision to eat those awful foods even in moderation... and make the same mistakes I make now. It doesn't make sense to eat those nasty foods regardless of you're loosing weight. It's the health part you should be focusing on. You're better than fast food even if it's once in a while. You're better than ice cream and candy. I wish you well and much success! Xo

In the five years prior to having the VSG I ate a total of three fast food meals. Two of those three were when I was in China and needed a place that had picture menus so I could just point to what I wanted since I speak only a few words of the language. The third meal was in London, and only because you were required to make a purchase to be able to use the restroom. This was during the time when I was in grad school and most of the eateries on campus were fast food. I had a bit of a snobbish attitude about it, but the Bagels and Pasta I was eating in its place did me no favors. In the nearly two years since having the VSG I've eaten numerous meals at fast food places, and worked my way down to a size 2/4 on a 5'8 frame. I grew up in Florida loving Chick-fil-a, and when one finally opened in my area of Los Angeles, I was pumped. It became my routine to go to the one near the gym after workouts and get a kids meal with nuggets, a fruit cup instead of fries, and a diet lemonade or milk in lieu of a soda. I also eat at El Pollo Loco fairly regularly now. One benefit of fast food places and other large chains is that they have all of their nutritional information on their websites, so you can quickly access it and make better choices. It can also be sobering to look up what you're craving and see how that one meal has more calories and carbs than you'd typically eat in a day (or in some cases, two). For me, cultivating sustainable habits has been the most critical for keeping the weight off, and a big part of that is informing myself about what I'm eating, tracking it, and planning. So I do eat ice cream and candy, but very rarely instead of regularly, and it doesn't have the impact that it would if I wasn't eating healthily the majority of the time and exercising regularly.

During the first month post-op I was bombarded with cravings for fast food, despite having not eaten any regularly in years. It was like some strange lady moved into my mind, because the obsession for Papa Johns and Jack in the Box was completely bizarre to me. I even watched YouTube videos of fast food reviews, to consume it with my eyes and not my mouth, lol. I looked through the Instagram pictures of a donut shop I loved, and other similarly unhealthy eateries. Food was on my mind constantly. When you're only able to consume liquids, and the majority of commercials are for fast food places and highly caloric Snacks, you can start to desire things you ordinarily wouldn't. As I wrote before, I never made any threads asking when I could eat x, y, or z, but I benefitted from others asking them and reading about horror stories. I knew it absolutely wasn't worth the risk, so I never ate any of the food I was obsessing over while healing. I eventually ate the Breakfast from Jack in the Box that I'd been weirdly fascinated with during the first month of post-op - about 15 months after surgery, when I'd been in maintenance for months. It wasn't nearly as good as I'd thought it would be, and I have no desire to eat it again. Reading on here about how others also had head hunger helped me a lot. I knew it was common, and that I'd get through it, and I did. It's why those threads don't bother me one bit.

[PatientEleventyBillion 851]

3 hours ago, jaminator said:

Man....OP seems super pissy. Probably as bad as the people she is complaining about....

If you want an example of that here go check the atheist and agnostic forum. It's deservedly (I say this as an agnostic myself) a desert wasteland due to intolerance, something I unabashedly see as inevitable for Facebook and Twitter.

One of my cousins was a member of a FB VBAC community that lectures women to avoid c-sections, even in the circumstances of high risk to themselves and their child, because they believe it's immoral. I think any place that allows sensitivity to dictate the rules of discussion, to a point of nothing but affirming beliefs and "yes men", inevitably winds up in that abyss.

Another example: I was only ever called a "fat ass" two times in my life, and rather than take it as an insult, I decided to look inward and see I really didn't like what I had become (while not caring what the other people thought). Sometimes the best catalyst for change can be the thing that's supposed to offend the most.

Edited April 10, 2017 by PatientEleventyBillion