Disgusted

[BigViffer 3,544]

@OutsideMatchInside pretty much hit all facts for me. As I said in my post, correctly formed sleeve, fundus removed, no stretch. Healed sleeve is more pliable than a fresh scar tissue sleeve.

Add to that surgeons speaking lay terms to people and it perpetuates a myth. Honestly, it means nothing to me what anyone else believes or does. If someone wants to believe they can stretch their sleeve back out into a normal sized stomach, it affects me not at all. However; I only notice the people who are failing at post op life talking about stretched sleeves/pouches.

[soccermom2 27]

Sleeves don't stretch though, they aren't really that elastic, I know because I can still eat/drink too fast and feel the pain. So many doctors will tell you that. Sleeves are really not that flexible, I know I live with one.
I don't even know how to drill it home more than that. It won't stretch if it is done right, that is basically the cornerstone of the surgery. A stretched sleeve is a complication or a failure. It defeats the purpose. The sleeve has 2 major parts that help with weight loss, removing the stretchy part of the stomach reducing portions and creating restriction and also removing the stretchy part of the stomach removes ghrelin the hunger hormone. The part we are left with is more muscular than pouchy or stretchy.
The last link you posted is about a full regular stomach (did you even read it, or look at the picture? It is written by an English major for a BroScience website). A full regular stomach will stretch because the whole stomach is stretchy. The stretch part of the stomach is removed with the sleeve. It is not with RNY or the Band. Most WLS information lumps all these surgeries together.
It really does not seem like you understand how the sleeve works or what the surgery involves. It looks like you are still pre-op, if you are going to have the sleeve, you should do more research so you can understand how it works.
If you have a sleeve you won't stretch it, you risk other complication like ruining your esophagus creating a pouch at the top of it that food is getting stuck in. This happens because a sleeve doesn't stretch. Like [mention=252425]BigViffer[/mention] you can damage the valve at the bottom of your stomach and make it open fast but a sleeve does not stretch.
Many sleevers confuse healing with stretching. The restriction you have at the beginning is not the restriction you will have forever. That is because it is not true restriction it is swelling. It takes a long time for internal swelling to go down and to be fully healed, 6 months at least, and this even applies to other things like a lot of plastic surgery. My restriction at 21 months is the same as 12 months. If I don't eat for a day or two my sleeve can get tight as a drum, or it can just randomly be tight.
Most people complaining about stretched sleeves are eating sliders not dense Protein. If they ever listen to advice and eat dense protein, of they discover they have restriction again.
Finally the sleeve wasn't covered by insurance just a few years ago in the US and a lot of people with complications now went out of the country to have their surgery done. They have complications from bad sleeves and are having revisions in the US now because WLS is covered by insurance more than it used to be and also everyone is currently is required to have insurance in the US.
A correctly formed sleeve will not stretch. A RNY pouch will stretch, the pouch created by the band will stretch and bands can slip. A properly made sleeve will not stretch. Healing is not stretching. Eating sliders is not stretching.

I did read the second link about the stomach. The stomach is still the stomach even if you remove a portion of it. It is still made up of the same tissue, tissue which expands when you eat.

You also still did not answer where you got your information from. Every surgeon I've spoke to, every person I've talked to that's had the surgery, everything I've read says the stomach is able to stretch to hold more food as time goes on. It's biology. That's how the stomach tissue is made to work, its elastic. The sleeve is ONLY a tool. Just because you have one experience doesn't mean everyone else does and from the sound of it, it seems as if you are following post op guidelines and not frequently forcing food to the point of being sick. Eventually your body will get used to your eating habits and they will catch up to you if you keep over eating. If the sleeve got rid of all elasticity in your stomach then failure wouldn't even be a possibility.

I may be in the pre-op stage, but I have been researching this surgery for two years now and I have plenty of family and friends who have been through it.

I guess we will have to just agree to disagree.

[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

6 minutes ago, BigViffer said:

@OutsideMatchInside pretty much hit all facts for me. As I said in my post, correctly formed sleeve, fundus removed, no stretch. Healed sleeve is more pliable than a fresh scar tissue sleeve.

Add to that surgeons speaking lay terms to people and it perpetuates a myth. Honestly, it means nothing to me what anyone else believes or does. If someone wants to believe they can stretch their sleeve back out into a normal sized stomach, it affects me not at all. However; I only notice the people who are failing at post op life talking about stretched sleeves/pouches.

Right!

This discussion has happened here so often and so many scientific studies and links have been cited.

I only responded and posted because I am procrastinating on a work project but I am promising myself today I am never going to post more than one sentence about sleeve stretching again. "Properly formed sleeves don't stretch"

If people are comforted by thinking that sleeves stretch so they have an excuse for regaining and failing, hug that blankie tight Linus van Pelt, may it comfort you in hard times,

I'm done.

Edited April 7, 2017 by OutsideMatchInside

[soccermom2 27]

Right!
This discussion has happened here so often and so many scientific studies and links have been cited.
I only responded and posted because I am procrastinating on a work project but I am promising myself today I am never going to post more than once sentence about sleeve stretching again. "Properly formed sleeves don't stretch"
If people are comforted by thinking that sleeves stretch so they have an excuse for regaining and failing, hug that blankie tight Linus van Pelt, may it comfort you in hard times,
I'm done.

I don't think anyone is comforted by thinking that sleeves stretch. To me, it's more of a reason to follow guidelines to make sure that this works and I don't mess it up. I think it's important to know that the restriction won't stay the same, that I will be able to eat more and I need to be more aware of it. I don't want to go in thinking, "Oh my stomach will never be able to hold much food again so I have nothing to worry about!" It goes much deeper than that with obese people. That's the whole point of this thread right? Issues with food ruining results?

Why would anyone need an excuse to make themselves feel better about failing? If you keep overeating and sabotage your results isn't that still your fault?

[Tarno3 19]

I'm going to have surgery in June with the likelihood my date is moved up. I had joined a Facebook bariatric group thinking I'd find support and possibly friends there, but unfortunately left the group due to the outrageous number of posts regarding how soon people could eat pizza, drink alcohol, eat I cream or drink soda pop, etc., etc. then the myriad of unhealthy recipes that were posted was upsetting, even as I scrolled past them. Then, I came here. It's the same difference. The people who have knowledge are vastly outnumbered by the addicts and self indulgent. What's worse is if anybody speaks the truth, which is that the vast majority of people here are seeking a quick fix, don't want to put in the work, are food addicts and compulsive over eaters, and even lazy, then they risk the wrath of people who disagree and want to mess up for their own ignorant and selfish reasons. Stupidly and indulgence win out the day.
I'm always from the school of thought if I know something or have information I ought to impart that to others. Knowledge is power and the truth is always better.
It pisses me off to have to keep my mouth shut so that stupid or misinformed people win out the day spreading their crap all over these forums and ruining it for those of us who actually can use the encouragement and not use this site as a crutch for our self indulging.
I was thinking of leaving.
Then I realized I'm not alone after reading a post on here expressing the same outrage. Plus, I'll stick around for the few people who actually can use the help and viable info, not to mention have real issues with support outside these forums for reasons beyond what is normal, either they have limited net access and funds, or get a doctor that isn't up to par, plus I feel it's my duty to give out the correct information. And yes, there is actually correct information about this stuff. It's really easy to find and a great doctor will give it.
Some of what I read is preposterous. Reading stupid crap such as it's okay to drink soda or pop because the stomach muscle left over from the surgery won't stretch - B.S! NOT TRUE, and if that isn't the worst if it, not acknowledging what sugar and fake sweeteners do to our bodies is the icing on the cake. Nobody is that daft in 2017.
Rather than attack and change the nature of the addictions, people seek any excuse to indulge them. It's tiresome and boring. Have some guts, and stop spreading stupidity to others.
Believe it or not, some of us want to be healthy and actually live longer by correcting the habits that got us here in the first place.
If you don't like it, fine. It's not my job to encourage bad behavior, not for myself or anyone else. Leave a rude comment or not, that's your bit. At the end of the day it's about adding years to our lives and making the best out of a tool that not everybody has an opportunity out to use.

You seem to know a lot yet haven't had your surgery. Not saying I disagree with what you said but you were quite callous in how you said it. It seems like you have a lot of hatred towards those that are struggling or you feel felt the surgery was a quick fix. If I would have to guess you are facing judgement or stigma somewhere in your life about your decision to get surgery and are projecting here.

[lornasaurusleeve 91]

Here, at least you have the choice to not open the thread.

[Middus 491]

Actually Studies have demonstrated that some sleeves dilate after surgery, but many times it has nothing to do with the amount of food you are eating. Bariatric surgery research is constantly evolving. No need to be making strong declarations when people keep discovering new things every year.
One of the studies mentioned a form of expansion in which constant overfeeding allows the stomach to 'stretch' with every meal. The Stretch receptors are set higher every time, giving the stomach the ability to consume even more food at every meal,
That is another mechanism (which unlike the first one, isn't an actual permanent dilation .

The main take home is that sleeves 'stretch' but not the way people think. In these cases, it is a minor expansion (except in cases where a huge part of the fundus is left behind, where the expansion can be significant). Furthermore, these cases (where the stomach stretched) were unrelated to increased calorific intake and was not tied to regain.

In summary, if a properly done gastric sleeve fails, it's not because the sleeve doubled or quadrupled in size.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Middus

[MBird 298]

You seem to know a lot yet haven't had your surgery. Not saying I disagree with what you said but you were quite callous in how you said it. It seems like you have a lot of hatred towards those that are struggling or you feel felt the surgery was a quick fix. If I would have to guess you are facing judgement or stigma somewhere in your life about your decision to get surgery and are projecting here.

I know a bit about the surgery because I did over a year's worth of classes and seminars, listen to two doctors I trust, know people who had the surgery, and I read, a lot.

The original post wasn't callous, it was frank and blunt. I never claimed to think it's a quick fix and expressed, specifically, my disappointment with those who carry on like it is.

And no hatred, but disappointment and disgust. I'm fine with it.

Your straw man argument is cute.

And since you seem to be a shrink and all, your opinion truly matters : )

[MBird 298]

Here, at least you have the choice to not open the thread.

True. You've a point. But sometimes I want to help others. And one cannot always tell what a post is about based off a title.

If someone is struggling, I want to be honest and try. It gets frustrating when I give good advice or feedback and it's ignored for those pieces of advice that are unhealthy or indulgent. It really is a lifestyle change.

But hey, if others want to mess around with their health, that's their bit.

I'm quickly learning to not care, but to take care of myself. What others do, is their bit.

[Tarno3 19]

I know a bit about the surgery because I did over a year's worth of classes and seminars, listen to two doctors I trust, know people who had the surgery, and I read, a lot.

The original post wasn't callous, it was frank and blunt. I never claimed to think it's a quick fix and expressed, specifically, my disappointment with those who carry on like it is.

And no hatred, but disappointment and disgust. I'm fine with it.

Your straw man argument is cute.

And since you seem to be a shrink and all, your opinion truly matters : )


[/quote

Glad to hear that you have put so much effort into your decision and educated your self.

I'm not sure what straw man argument you think is cute. To be clear I never said you thought the surgery was a quick fix as it is apparent you have educated your self.

[Greensleevie 451]

This thread is the exact reason why most vets have left. A PRE OP letting everyone know how much of an expert they are.

Get back to us when you've actually experienced losing the weight and then have successfully maintained it for a while. Otherwise, keep your "help" to moral support, hmmmmm?

[Tarno3 19]

This thread is the exact reason why most vets have left. A PRE OP letting everyone know how much of an expert they are.
Get back to us when you've actually experienced losing the weight and then have successfully maintained it for a while. Otherwise, keep your "help" to moral support, hmmmmm?

Don't leave some of us newbies need you guys! Too many expert newbies not enough people who have been around the block


Seminar 12/27/16: wt 304
Surgery 3/23: wt 287
2 week post: 267

[James Marusek 5,244]

This site is an exchange of ideas and open communications. This communications is very important to those struggling after surgery. So let us all keep our discussions civil whether we agree or disagree with what someone says. Respect opinions but voice your own. Only do it in a civil manner.

[MBird 298]

This thread is the exact reason why most vets have left. A PRE OP letting everyone know how much of an expert they are. Get back to us when you've actually experienced losing the weight and then have successfully maintained it for a while. Otherwise, keep your "help" to moral support, hmmmmm?

What does it matter if I've had the surgery or not, if I'm pre op or not?! As if I've never dieted in my entire life????? As if I've never had health issues due to my weight? As if I can't read online or in books what to expect and use critical thinking?

I'm fine with discussion until it gets personal. I expressed an opinion not directed at post ops in general or any one person but based off something I observed in the forums. I'm sorry that rubs you wrong. I'm still entitled to expressing a very real feeling. This forum is for everybody to open and invite discussion. Sadly a lot of people lack the skills to think critically and not make it about them.

If you can't handle it, I suggest you don't read my thread. Honestly, you're incredibly rude, as are many of the people who have replied to my thread. The rudeness doesn't just extend to myself but others who replied as well.

I'm fine with opposing views but not when they fly from the fingers of big babies who can't handle an opposing or different opinion than their own.

You're incredibly rude.

My apologies to anybody who has been attacked on here, my intent was to open a discussion, not invite stupidity and hatred. Or take the discussion off topic.

[lf1227 129]

I'm going to have surgery in June with the likelihood my date is moved up. I had joined a Facebook bariatric group thinking I'd find support and possibly friends there, but unfortunately left the group due to the outrageous number of posts regarding how soon people could eat pizza, drink alcohol, eat I cream or drink soda pop, etc., etc. then the myriad of unhealthy recipes that were posted was upsetting, even as I scrolled past them. Then, I came here. It's the same difference. The people who have knowledge are vastly outnumbered by the addicts and self indulgent. What's worse is if anybody speaks the truth, which is that the vast majority of people here are seeking a quick fix, don't want to put in the work, are food addicts and compulsive over eaters, and even lazy, then they risk the wrath of people who disagree and want to mess up for their own ignorant and selfish reasons. Stupidly and indulgence win out the day.
I'm always from the school of thought if I know something or have information I ought to impart that to others. Knowledge is power and the truth is always better.
It pisses me off to have to keep my mouth shut so that stupid or misinformed people win out the day spreading their crap all over these forums and ruining it for those of us who actually can use the encouragement and not use this site as a crutch for our self indulging.
I was thinking of leaving.
Then I realized I'm not alone after reading a post on here expressing the same outrage. Plus, I'll stick around for the few people who actually can use the help and viable info, not to mention have real issues with support outside these forums for reasons beyond what is normal, either they have limited net access and funds, or get a doctor that isn't up to par, plus I feel it's my duty to give out the correct information. And yes, there is actually correct information about this stuff. It's really easy to find and a great doctor will give it.
Some of what I read is preposterous. Reading stupid crap such as it's okay to drink soda or pop because the stomach muscle left over from the surgery won't stretch - B.S! NOT TRUE, and if that isn't the worst if it, not acknowledging what sugar and fake sweeteners do to our bodies is the icing on the cake. Nobody is that daft in 2017.
Rather than attack and change the nature of the addictions, people seek any excuse to indulge them. It's tiresome and boring. Have some guts, and stop spreading stupidity to others.
Believe it or not, some of us want to be healthy and actually live longer by correcting the habits that got us here in the first place.
If you don't like it, fine. It's not my job to encourage bad behavior, not for myself or anyone else. Leave a rude comment or not, that's your bit. At the end of the day it's about adding years to our lives and making the best out of a tool that not everybody has an opportunity out to use.

I think there is a major difference between a vet who has kept 70+ lbs off because they are years out and their stomach has fully healed and they are adults who know their limits with "normal" food and newbies who come on the forums asking if not following your pre op diet is bad, or how soon after surgery can you have pizza- which I have seen. Of course I want to reply back with a lecture but I've just had surgery 2 days ago so I don't feel it's my place.
It is extremely frustrating because the facebook groups are bullshit too. [emoji45] just gotta pick your battles I believe.