So who would you like to meet?

[anonemouse 1]

But yes, I do understand that frustration and immaturity are different things. As for where it is - posting something like "Oh no, quit following me, you're a STALKER!" - I can see that coming out of frustration. I can also see how it might provoke someone and be a "jab." I think that when an entire thread is started with the (apparent) intention of saying "Woohoo I'm excited and you know why!" (I think that's the Snoopy thread Laurend mentioned earlier... and I don't remember for sure but I think she admitted to immaturity or a coulda done it differently... but I don't know without taking the time to go find it) - that might be frustration, but can you understand how it also reads as immature? It could have easily been a private conversation that would get any frustrations across just as well. (As could a lot of things).

Yes, I admitted that making that thread wasn't my most mature moment. But any thread I made right then would have been taken as "provocation" for an attack, since a thread that sweethazel/Lizrbit had ambushed WASa and I in had just been closed. Yes, I intentionally provoked her (didn't really start out that way, but ended up there), but it was mainly because I was getting so pissed off at seeing her constantly attacking WASa (and myself whenever I happened to make a post agreeing with WASa) and not seeing much other than an occasional "stop fighting" from the mods. And honestly, if you can't make a thread like that in RnR, where can you make it? Rants and Raves is made for fighting. At least I was doing it in the right forum, instead of following her from thread to thread in the other forums, making attacking posts to her. Yes, I drew her out. Better to have it all out in the open than still be watching my back in other threads, right?

Yes, I've made posts about how funny and pitiful it is when people can't stop trying to incite fights with the people they have blocked. Hell, it is funny and pitiful. But I honestly don't think it's any worse or more immature than the posts people make about the stupid things newbies say and do or the posts where people bitch about the most ignorant reply a thread has gotten. It's venting. The fact is, if sweethazel wasn't Lizrbit, that shouldn't be a provocation to her, should it?

[BJean 16]

I'd like to meet Elena. I think we'd learn that we have more in common than the things we don't have in common.

[ELENATION 0]

I'd like to meet Elena. I think we'd learn that we have more in common than the things we don't have in common.

Aaaaawwww, you know, all that spunk that you saw in me while we were debating was about that topic because it is so connected with my childhood and sufferings....but deep inside I'm really not that strong, actually I'm a softy.... and I cry easily...lol! and your words now are touching and are making me tear up a little... I'm honored! BJean... I really am.. I agree that we have more in common than the things we don't...most definitely! and I would love to meet you too one day, who knows, maybe we will meet! Thank you so much.

Elena

[green 6]

Yes, I admitted that making that thread wasn't my most mature moment. But any thread I made right then would have been taken as "provocation" for an attack, since a thread that sweethazel/Lizrbit had ambushed WASa and I in had just been closed. Yes, I intentionally provoked her (didn't really start out that way, but ended up there), but it was mainly because I was getting so pissed off at seeing her constantly attacking WASa (and myself whenever I happened to make a post agreeing with WASa) and not seeing much other than an occasional "stop fighting" from the mods. And honestly, if you can't make a thread like that in RnR, where can you make it? Rants and Raves is made for fighting. At least I was doing it in the right forum, instead of following her from thread to thread in the other forums, making attacking posts to her. Yes, I drew her out. Better to have it all out in the open than still be watching my back in other threads, right?

Yes, I've made posts about how funny and pitiful it is when people can't stop trying to incite fights with the people they have blocked. Hell, it is funny and pitiful. But I honestly don't think it's any worse or more immature than the posts people make about the stupid things newbies say and do or the posts where people bitch about the most ignorant reply a thread has gotten. It's venting. The fact is, if sweethazel wasn't Lizrbit, that shouldn't be a provocation to her, should it?

Science grrl, Green has got to tell you that the snoop dawg dance was not your finest hour. You have been gifted with a superb intellect, and your specialty is mammalian behaviour. I submit that this outbreak of crazy behaviour might just be viewed under this lens: on one level this might be viewed as alpha issues within the big head hairless tribe.

The paint bawl thang was definitely not LizRbit's finest hour. Wasa and sweethazel have not performed at their very best and, yes, sweethazel did indulge in some entirely uncalled for bitcherie on the Alla thread. All of this is very, very true....

But now comes the time for everyone to move on, ignore each other, and keep silent.

By the way, you may be amused to hear that Green has serious anger issues of her own. I still see a psychologist in order to talk about this stuff. I really do understand where you all are coming from. I am not being a sanctimonious goody-goody for I am a cynic by temperament and one of those who only believe in the I Don't Care Bears. This means that I have no intention of preaching to you. I just figure that all of you intelligent and, yes, amusing colleagues will be better off if you are not engaged in sad, sour, and sub-intellectual snarks. (Please note that I have worked hard to toss a lot of words begining with S in that last sentence.)

Remember that living well is the best revenge. This could arguably extended to enjoying oneself by engaging in interesting discussions on the internet. Avoid letting the bell troll for thee.

[anonemouse 1]

Science grrl, Green has got to tell you that the snoop dawg dance was not your finest hour. You have been gifted with a superb intellect, and your specialty is mammalian behaviour. I submit that this outbreak of crazy behaviour might just be viewed under this lens: on one level this might be viewed as alpha issues within the big head hairless tribe.

The paint bawl thang was definitely not LizRbit's finest hour. Wasa and sweethazel have not performed at their very best and, yes, sweethazel did indulge in some entirely uncalled for bitcherie on the Alla thread. All of this is very, very true....

But now comes the time for everyone to move on, ignore each other, and keep silent.

By the way, you may be amused to hear that Green has serious anger issues of her own. I still see a psychologist in order to talk about this stuff. I really do understand where you all are coming from. I am not being a sanctimonious goody-goody for I am a cynic by temperament and one of those who only believe in the I Don't Care Bears. This means that I have no intention of preaching to you. I just figure that all of you intelligent and, yes, amusing colleagues will be better off if you are not engaged in sad, sour, and sub-intellectual snarks. (Please note that I have worked hard to toss a lot of words begining with S in that last sentence.)

Remember that living well is the best revenge. This could arguably extended to enjoying oneself by engaging in interesting discussions on the internet. Avoid letting the bell troll for thee.

Oh, I completely admit that it was stupid and below me. But I think that once in a while, we're all allowed to be a little immature. It's kind of like when you find out that the thin and beautiful head cheerleader that bullied you in high school is now fat, unattractive, and mopping floors at McDonalds while you're, well, not. Later, you may feel sorry for her and feel ashamed of your reaction, but at the time, it feels like the sweetest revenge. So yeah, now I regret what I posted, but I can't change the fact that it did get posted.

[green 6]

Yep, I know. Don't worry about it. We all do it.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Okay, I'm gonna damn well point out the OBVIOUS. Lizrbit and SweetHazel ARE indeed the same person and you can say or write anything you bloody please, it is not going to change the facts. They are one in the same and we all know it. Deny it if you wish, it does not change the facts. Wasa, I have a report from yesterday or Wednesday that you are also another handle. Hell, I have one that *I* am another handle - and that many people are other handles. I am saying/writing that I do not know for sure that they are the same person, and just because someone tells me they are doesn't make it any more true to me. There are things that strongly indicate they are the same person... there are also contraindications.

I damn well have PMed you guys and provided specific links to problem issues. I'm sick and tired of being ignored by you guys. I devote a lot of time doing my thing here just as others and being ignored is quite frankly, without excuse. If you want to tell me to buggar off.. kewl Beans. I can take that. I may not agree with it but I can deal with it. Ignoring me is childish and/or unprofessional. There is no excuse. I have been a mod and it is no piece of cake. You will never please everyone, it isn't going to happen. I get that, I have no problem with that. Ignoring me is simply unprofessional. If you don't respond to me when I have legit issues, then it is your responsibility to make sure someone else does. Even if it is to tell me to buggar off. But to ignore me? That's just wrong. If you don't have time for this volunteer job it is your responsibility to find help. I can't speak for Alexandra or any other mod. I'm sure you understand that. What PMs Alexandra has in her inbox -- I have no clue. I know that I do not have PMs re: this issue, outside of the last few days. The messages I have received (all via reported posts I believe), that were not already handled by someone else by the time I saw them, I have addressed. I had no idea you had sent out specific PMs. If they were unanswered then I apologize on general moderator behalf, because that shouldn't happen. You are right, if you're reporting a concern, then even a generic "thanks for bringing it to our attention, we will..." is appropriate (though perhaps not immediate). I'm not going to speculate on what any other moderator has/did/thought/read/whatever because it's just that. I think on this point, if any more is to be said, we need to give people the opportunity to speak for themselves if that's what they wish to do. I cannot speak for them. *I* personally have not ignored you (more to agree with what you said than anything else), so I take this as a general "moderators" vent. I can direct the others to this post and make sure they're aware of your concern, but that's about it.

I want to know specifics here. You suggest we deal with our own issues. As a mod of another forum I get that, I agree with that. But when it has gotten out of hand please let me specifically just what the target of those issues SHOULD do? If what we are doing isn't working, what should we do? I never said taking care of your own issues is ALL that should happen. And it isn't. I will be the first to admit that things don't happen as quicky around here as I sometimes would like. We don't have a perfect system by any means, nor do we have mods who are all around/available at the same time. But - because you aren't publically seeing action does not mean action hasn't been put in place. As I said above, I agree that you should have gotten acknowledgement on your concerns, and I apologize if you did not.

As for specifics, I really don't have the time right now to search, pull up quotes, etc. -- but would rather respond in the time I do have, rather than leave this hanging. I hope you can understand that, and can model my paraphrasing into things that are familiar to you. I have seen a lot of "jab" type posts by you guys lately. Not ONLY you guys. I never once said that. And I didn't say "it's your fault" or "you caused it." Don't read that in. References such as "Oh no! You're posting here too! You must be a STALKER!" or threads started to say "I'm happy and you know why!" -- those may help you feel better, truly they might, but you have to admit they going to fan the fire more than supress it. That's what I'm saying.

Some people have issues that are beyond our control and nothing we do makes a difference. It is my opinion that as a mod it is then time for you guys to step in and say enough. If it doesn't end there then you need to get rid of the trouble maker types. And again - because you haven't seen action doesn't mean action isn't being taken. As a mod, you'll understand that even more so. And as I already admitted, we don't have a perfect system and it does at times take longer than I would prefer. But by and large, when we agree that something is a problem, we get it taken care of it.

That hasn't happened, instead you are passing out blame as though we have control of these issues. What is it that you want us to do, please, I'm begging... provide specifics. I don't know that I can agree completely. There are (at least) four parties that contribute to the outcome of an online (or real) situation: the parties on either side of the dispute, the moderating body, and the observers. ALL parties could have responded in more productive ways. I am not omitting the moderators here from any part in things going downhill. I have said that we as moderators cannot always act as quickly as we would like, and I have said that I do not think it's right if your PMs highlighting your concerns went unanswered. I have locked threads and given out warnings, and posted a heckuva lot about the topic that you guys will never see.

With the above said, I do want to make a point of saying what little has been done has ONLY been done by you. I PMed Alexandra with specifics. I never heard a word. Yet I realize that you found the same issues I did and you did put forth some effort to confront the issues. You are the only one. I'm not downing Alexandra, I am asking why I was ignored. It's not like I PM you guys with every whim. I don't PM you guys on a daily basis, or weekly. Heck, I don't even contact you monthly. So doesn't that mean I should at least hear that you received my issues and you either agree or not? Com'on, ignoring me is fruitless and non productive. Same as above - I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can (and will) ensure the others are aware that this conversation is here and that there are concerns.

At least I thought that was the case. As of late I'm beginning to question that concept. With all due respect, just where is the immaturity vs. the frustration? There really is a difference. Are we better than other boards? I don't know, I don't go to other boards, nor is it a status/competition point that I'm worried about. We certainly aren't perfect. There are things that we as moderators could do very differently. There are certainly things we could do "better" (or insert value statement of choice). We know that - we've discussed it - we don't have perfect solutions for it. There are always things that could be done differentlyby all sides. I mean - that's always the case with anything. I think there's a mature way to handle frustration, and an immature way, and all kinds of shades in between. But yes, I do understand that frustration and immaturity are different things. As for where it is - posting something like "Oh no, quit following me, you're a STALKER!" - I can see that coming out of frustration. I can also see how it might provoke someone and be a "jab." I think that when an entire thread is started with the (apparent) intention of saying "Woohoo I'm excited and you know why!" (I think that's the Snoopy thread Laurend mentioned earlier... and I don't remember for sure but I think she admitted to immaturity or a coulda done it differently... but I don't know without taking the time to go find it) - that might be frustration, but can you understand how it also reads as immature? It could have easily been a private conversation that would get any frustrations across just as well. (As could a lot of things).

As I stated earlier, I will point the other mods here, to ensure they know this conversation is happening, and so that we can give them an opportunity to speak for themselves - I can't do it for them.

Wheetsin...

First of all I owe you an apology. Yesterday was a very long day (was out of town) and I was beyond exhausted when I responded to your post late last night. I'd go through and edit now but it's a bit late for that. While I do mean what I wrote I could have been a lot nicer about that and for that I do apologize.

I do have another LBT ID. I've never used it but I have one. I told you about it ages ago. When I first started planning plastic surgery I worked it out with another member who is a medical student to be there during surgery. He was going to take photos of the actual procedures, I thought for those that were interested they were welcome to view them. As I explained to you that due to my real time licensing I have to be verrry careful of what type of photos I post on the internet. Even though they are of a medical nature one never knows how the board of nursing will respond. They made an example of another nurse regarding photos and the internet and I didn't want to be example number two for them. So I discussed with you the possibility of having another ID or another LBT person post for me and just not tell they were my photos. Thus, the board of nursing issue would be a "non issue".

For many reasons I've changed my mind and I'm not posting anything anywhere or having another member do it for me. FaithMD was going to do it on my behalf but you know, none of this is worth it. But point being, I do have another ID. I've just never used it. After all these months I'm still getting standard emails from LBT asking my other ID when I'm going to post.

I don't use other IDs on this board. While I have a different name for each board I post on (and I've spelled this out before) I do not EVER use more than one ID for each board. While I realize you are in no way accusing me of such, I just want to set the record straight. And besides, anyone that has read any number of my posts would have a hard time coming up with information I would not post under this one. I pretty much call them as I see them. What in the world would I post under a different ID that I wouldn't post under this one?

LBT (in my opinion) is 1000x better than any other fat board on the internet. There is quality information to be had here, huge amounts of support, advice, suggestions, opinions, the works. I typically prefer members handle their own issues with one another but once every now and again when someone goes beyond the norms of disagreements and creates IDs just to follow and harass others, then it has gone too far. As members we have little recourse but to report it.

I don't think any rational 'regular' member on this board doubts Liz and Hazel are the same person. So when they read the nonsense and babbling they already know the scoop. But the newbies don't know the history and personalities involved and they have to wonder just what the heck is going on. At that point it has gone too far.

Patient coordinators with multiple IDs are another sore spot for me. They pose as many patients to make it look like a doc has more patients than they do and to push a given doc. We members have caught them doing it before. If a doc needs that kind of deception to get business, that's spooky and the people need to take a long hard look at why the doc needs that to gain business. But again, that's a pet peeve of my own.

Anyway, I've said what I have to say on the topic and I will do my best to let the rest go.

[Boo Boo Kitty 3]

:whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo::whoo:

Heyyyyy! Now i feel honoured!!! sitting in the airport wainting 3 hours to get a flight home and i read this! How good does that make me feel?

Yeaaaaaaaaaah, im the man...its my birthday...its my birthday...gona party like its my birthday........

I cant wait for this buisness trip to be over.

lol...Where was your trip to? I leave on a business trip this week. I can't wait. But I hate to fly. UGH...I will be taking my friend Jack Daniels with me or I won't make it on the plane!

[Iluvharleys 15]

Wheetsin just brought this to my attention. I have to say first that I never received a PM from any of you.

I just would like to say that we had a similar problem about a year ago on here. The sad part was that all the people involved was banned for life from LBT. Mr. Alex stated at that time that all people who had more than one I.D. needed to come forward or they would also be banned. We all came close to losing LBT completely.

Is all this bickering really worth losing this great place forever?

I know this is an open forum and anyone can join. We all have to remember we never know the people we talk with every day. Unless we actually meet these people and spend some time with them we will never know the actual person. We might think we do, but in reality we don't.

I think everyone needs to take a step backwards, do some thinking and cool off.

The last time this happened LBT was shut down for a few days for everyone to cool off. I hate to think it might come to that again, but it is sure looking that way. I for one hate to have LBT down at all, and I hate to think about the people getting ready to go to surgery and can't even come on here the day before to get some incouragement.

So, all I ask is that all of you step back, take a day off if you need to do that and just cool down. If you indeed have more than one I.D. why don't you pm one of us and ask us to delete one for you? I don't think anyone needs to have more than one, not for any reason.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Iluvharleys...

Regarding other IDs. I'd LOVE it if you guys would deal with those that have multiple IDs. We've caught people doing it before only it is usually the patient coordinators trying to drum up business. Liz is the first I have known without a doubt was who was using another ID that isn't a patient coordinator.

When people are using multiple IDs (usually to sell their doctor) why isn't anything done? I can PM you links to posts showing exactly what I'm talking about. When we caught them on the boards they stopped using those accounts and created all new ones.

Is it a matter of not being able to verify?

[anonemouse 1]

I have a question for all the mods.....

Is there anyway that you guys could just make a separate SN called "Moderator" that all of you current moderators have access to, and put contact information for that identity in every forum? That way, all moderators can be made aware of current problems. I think that would solve a lot of this. If you guys do that, it won't matter if any of the moderator are out of town or busy and unable to check PMs, since the ones that are able to be here would be able to take care of the issue. Right now, members have to be familiar with the mods and have to have seen their posts to know that they are moderators (unless there's a list of mods somewhere that I haven't found yet - which is entirely possible). The automatic response is to contact Alexandra (since her contact info is in every forum), but if Alexandra isn't here or is unable to answer her PMs, the other mods need to have access to those complaints to be able to rectify the situation.

[losingjusme 12]

laurend,

im not a mod (nor do i play one on tv), but you can find who the mods are for a particular section (Lounge, Exercise, etc) by scrolling to the bottom of the post listings. it's on the right. see pic

[anonemouse 1]

Whoops, my bad! See, told you it was entirely possible! I don't think I've ever scrolled that far before. Where's an embarassed icon when you need it? Oh, well, this one will do:

Seriously, though, I still think it would be a good idea. That way, all moderators are aware of the original complaint, and the person complaining doesn't have to PM multiple people over the same thing.

[anonemouse 1]

Now I'm trying to figure out who in the world Wheetsin's other identity is supposed to be. Hmm.

[nina874 48]

******Oh, I completely admit that it was stupid and below me. But I think that once in a while, we're all allowed to be a little immature. It's kind of like when you find out that the thin and beautiful head cheerleader that bullied you in high school is now fat, unattractive, and mopping floors at McDonalds while you're, well, not. Later, you may feel sorry for her and feel ashamed of your reaction, but at the time, it feels like the sweetest revenge. So yeah, now I regret what I posted, but I can't change the fact that it did get posted.*******

Have to say Laurend I howled laughing at this, so true, I often try to take the moral high ground but am tripped at the last minute by the joys of watching the karmic balance at work.

Nina x