So who would you like to meet?

[Wheetsin 714]

I'm not sure this is going anywhere, and I'm not sure what you're looking for from me. We're very aware of the situation now (all of us, not just the specific people who were PMed or alerted previously), and will do our best to keep it in check.

At the same time, I think we can fairly request that everyone involved (directly & indirectly, whatever side, etc.) do their part to keep things as tame as possible. Things like not jabbing when you don't have to jab, not provoking when you don't have to provoke, etc. No one here is going to prove anything through their behavior, other than -- your own behaviors.

[anonemouse 1]

I'm not sure this is going anywhere, and I'm not sure what you're looking for from me. We're very aware of the situation now (all of us, not just the specific people who were PMed or alerted previously), and will do our best to keep it in check.

At the same time, I think we can fairly request that everyone involved (directly & indirectly, whatever side, etc.) do their part to keep things as tame as possible. Things like not jabbing when you don't have to jab, not provoking when you don't have to provoke, etc. No one here is going to prove anything through their behavior, other than -- your own behaviors.

That, I can promise you, will happen. It just got really frustrating for a while, and I know that I, at least, needed to blow off steam. Truce?

[Wheetsin 714]

No need for a truce. I can wear the moderator hat quite separately from the user hat. I'm glad others can see them differently, too.

[anonemouse 1]

No need for a truce. I can wear the moderator hat quite separately from the user hat. I'm glad others can see them differently, too.

Yep, can definitely see them differently. I may not always agree with your decisions as a moderator, but you're one of my fave members!

:biggrin1:

[Living My Dream 0]

:help:I would really like to meet bandsters in my area, Belleville, Ont.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

With all due respect, Wheetsin (and you know I do like and respect you), we did attempt to take the higher road. I don't think it's immaturity when someone actually responds to a post that specifically mentions their name. But responding to a post that specifically mentions someone's name isn't all that has been happening, either -- not by a long shot. There have been a lot of "pokes" and "prods" in a lot of different manners.

WASa PMed you guys multiple times about sweethazel and Lizrbit, sending lists of the threads where she was harassed by them as proof, but nothing was done, not even in the form of a reply to her. In 100% honesty, I have my PM box opened in a window next to this one, and I do have PMs from both of you, but outside of the ones that have transpired very recently (last day or so) I don't have a single one that references this issue. At least not back thru... 9/19 (going back to around the time I accidentally deleted the post you started about the person on OH). I'm not saying the PMs weren't sent - perhaps they were and I didn't get it for some reason. I dunno. All I'm saying is that I do not have them. I don't know if the other mods are reading this thread or not, but I can't speak for what they did/didn't receive.

You virtually confirmed to me that Lizrbit and sweethazel are the same person. If I did this, it was unintentional. I do try to refrain from putting too much information into PMs (easier to do than it might seem), and perhaps this makes my message ambiguous or vague. Looking back at what I sent I can see how you would interpret what I said as an unspoken confirmation, but I really didn't mean it that way.

I think the members that are the receiving end of the harassment are entitled to react. No one said don't react. I would - and I may speak for the other moderators here but can't guarantee it - prefer that people react and take care of their own issues. Hence we will tend to let lots of little hiccups run their own course, as they usually do. The best part of being a moderator is when you don't have to moderate. I think both sides could have reacted in more productive ways. Obviously I don't think anything horrible has happened, hence you all still have accounts here. But I do think there has been a lot of immaturity and I do think the situations could have been handled very differently.

Let me ask you this: Would you tell a person being stalked and harassed in RL to "just ignore it?" Eventually, something has to be done about the person doing the stalking. No, I wouldn't tell someone IRL to ignore it, but I see the two concepts as apples and oranges. If that much similarity, even. E.g. -- someone following me in a car, parking outside of my house, already being there when I went to pick up my children, etc. would concern me a lot more than someone posting irritating/pointless replies to my posts on a messageboard.

I believe we need to make something quite clear here.

In the beginning I felt there was someone here that has serious emotional problems. I don't believe one always has control of those problems. Ask Lauren, it was my suggestion that we leave well enough alone. If someone has impulse control issues, whatever... bugging them isn't gonna help. It just isn't. Letting the emotional cycle play itself through is the only way to play this game.

But, that comes to a freak'en dead stop when someone creates new IDs. They do that because they don't want to accept the consequences of poor behaviors under their usual ID.

Okay, I'm gonna damn well point out the OBVIOUS. Lizrbit and SweetHazel ARE indeed the same person and you can say or write anything you bloody please, it is not going to change the facts. They are one in the same and we all know it. Deny it if you wish, it does not change the facts.

When someone goes to the point of creating a new ID to chase and harass someone, they are creating that ID because they know their actions are inappropriate and unacceptable. They create a fake ID so the fake ID can take the crap for the behaviors. That is not someone with impulse control issues, that is someone with poor behaviors. There is a huge difference.

If someone has little control over their behaviors I am the FIRST one to give them the well deserved break they need. When they take the time to create a new ID to take the crap for those same behaviors, I know they have some amount of control over those behaviors.

When I got to the point that I felt Lizrbit was going through her own stuff and was unable to control impulse issues I left her alone and I suggested others do the same. When she created SweetHazel, all bets were off. And that *still* holds true. At that point I new damn well she knew right from wrong, she made it bloody obvious.

I damn well have PMed you guys and provided specific links to problem issues. I'm sick and tired of being ignored by you guys. I devote a lot of time doing my thing here just as others and being ignored is quite frankly, without excuse. If you want to tell me to buggar off.. kewl Beans. I can take that. I may not agree with it but I can deal with it. Ignoring me is childish and/or unprofessional. There is no excuse. I have been a mod and it is no piece of cake. You will never please everyone, it isn't going to happen. I get that, I have no problem with that. Ignoring me is simply unprofessional. If you don't respond to me when I have legit issues, then it is your responsibility to make sure someone else does. Even if it is to tell me to buggar off. But to ignore me? That's just wrong. If you don't have time for this volunteer job it is your responsibility to find help.

I want to know specifics here. You suggest we deal with our own issues. As a mod of another forum I get that, I agree with that. But when it has gotten out of hand please let me specifically just what the target of those issues SHOULD do? If what we are doing isn't working, what should we do?

We ignore, it continues. We confront, it continues. We try to deal with it, it continues. Some people have issues that are beyond our control and nothing we do makes a difference. It is my opinion that as a mod it is then time for you guys to step in and say enough. If it doesn't end there then you need to get rid of the trouble maker types.

That hasn't happened, instead you are passing out blame as though we have control of these issues. What is it that you want us to do, please, I'm begging... provide specifics.

With the above said, I do want to make a point of saying what little has been done has ONLY been done by you. I PMed Alexandra with specifics. I never heard a word. Yet I realize that you found the same issues I did and you did put forth some effort to confront the issues. You are the only one. I'm not downing Alexandra, I am asking why I was ignored. It's not like I PM you guys with every whim. I don't PM you guys on a daily basis, or weekly. Heck, I don't even contact you monthly. So doesn't that mean I should at least hear that you received my issues and you either agree or not? Com'on, ignoring me is fruitless and non productive.

I"m not the least bit concerned about something happening in real time. I maintain my privacy quite well on forums for a reason. This is a pretty darn good example of why.

My issue is what makes this a good forum vs. some crap place (my opinion only) such as OH. How are we better than other forums? It is because childish, immature, psychotic issues are dealt with as they come unlike other forums where it is the norm.

At least I thought that was the case. As of late I'm beginning to question that concept. With all due respect, just where is the immaturity vs. the frustration? There really is a difference.

[anonemouse 1]

Yep, WASa and I agreed to completely ignore Lizrbit. And we did, partly because it was a tad entertaining to watch her make an utter fool of herself by making posts about how we were posting about her when we were actually having a completely unrelated conversation. We basically agreed to ignore sweethazel, for the most part, until it became obvious that nothing was going to be done about her, because we thought that surely the behavior was obvious enough to warrant punishment. Honestly, I don't know what you guys expect us to do. We tried ignoring her, but that obviously didn't work. It's only so long that you can stand being pecked at before you slap the thing that's pecking you.

[BJean 16]

Hey ya'll I really like LBT because we can have a few conflicts here and there without anyone jumping in and censoring us. It's part of the fun of this place.

I can't blame anyone for being sick and tired of someone taking jabs at them, because it has happened to me. It is extremely frustrating because they can say anything and people read it and some of them believe what they read.

But I really hate for it to come to the point where someone is thrown off. laurend and Wasabub are favorite reads of mine and I love their ability to speak their minds. Please don't take this to the point where we have to constantly be syrupy sweet or not post. Some days I just need to blow off steam. I want all of us to continue to be able to do that.

Personal attacks are stupid and immature and if someone attacks us personally we need to not argue with them - that's just exactly what they're looking for. You gotta realize that one party here is loving every minute of her ability to get ya'll upset. And to be able to drag in a moderator has to be a real sense of accomplishment for her.

Maybe the thread should be closed and everyone back off, cool off and regroup once again. If someone starts attacking - ignore it. Over time, all the other posters will see what's going on and ignore it too. There's always going to be people who declare that someone is not a good person - that never makes it true - only you can make you look bad over the long haul.

[green 6]

Hey ya'll I really like LBT because we can have a few conflicts here and there without anyone jumping in and censoring us. It's part of the fun of this place.

I can't blame anyone for being sick and tired of someone taking jabs at them, because it has happened to me. It is extremely frustrating because they can say anything and people read it and some of them believe what they read.

But I really hate for it to come to the point where someone is thrown off. laurend and Wasabub are favorite reads of mine and I love their ability to speak their minds. Please don't take this to the point where we have to constantly be syrupy sweet or not post. Some days I just need to blow off steam. I want all of us to continue to be able to do that.

Personal attacks are stupid and immature and if someone attacks us personally we need to not argue with them - that's just exactly what they're looking for. You gotta realize that one party here is loving every minute of her ability to get ya'll upset. And to be able to drag in a moderator has to be a real sense of accomplishment for her.

Maybe the thread should be closed and everyone back off, cool off and regroup once again. If someone starts attacking - ignore it. Over time, all the other posters will see what's going on and ignore it too. There's always going to be people who declare that someone is not a good person - that never makes it true - only you can make you look bad over the long haul.

I am with BJean! :clap2::clap2::clap2: In fact I have just given her the clap but in a good way!!! from Green, eh, for your wise post.

[BJean 16]

high five, green. Now if we can just put this whole mess to bed (so to speak). :tired

[anonemouse 1]

The problem, though, is that certain other posters see someone being allowed to make blatant attacks on a person they don't like, and they decide to join in and it becomes a free for all. Now, y'all know that I'm up for a good debate or a rousing rant whenever someone feels like it. But I don't like being followed around and pecked to death whenever I happen to post, and I'm sure WASa feels the same way. It makes the entire board an unpleasant place to be. Rants and Raves is one thing. Hell, I'm open to a good knock-down/drag-out fight there. But the rest of the board? No. I'm sick and tired of being forced to censor myself and wondering if I should post in support of someone, just for fear that someone will pop up and start in on me and ruin someone's thread.

Heck, I'll even say it publicly on the board: If someone wants to call me out in Rants and Raves, or decides that they want to harass me there, bring it on. I'll be more than happy to play. But it should stay there. The rest of the board is for support, and other people seeing that members are allowed to attack other members willy-nilly and ruin otherwise good threads isn't what I would call supportive.

[BJean 16]

I get it laurend, I really do. That's what's so awful about this, some people are coming to certain threads to learn and for support and they read negative jabs at other posters and want to run away. That's a shame!

But there are nuts everywhere in the world. You can't crack 'em all. If you try to, you'll get a tummyache.

You're a very good person and very intelligent. You add so much to this forum. I don't want to lose you!!!

[ELENATION 0]

Which member would you like to meet that you haven't had a chance to meet in person and hang out with yet?

A good thread for scoring some brownie points and some gratuitous ego-fluffing

I would like to meet: green, laurend, Boo Boo, lizrbit, beversman and Jack

L8Bloomr, Wassa, Derrick...and I know others...but I can't remember all their names...

[Wheetsin 714]

Okay, I'm gonna damn well point out the OBVIOUS. Lizrbit and SweetHazel ARE indeed the same person and you can say or write anything you bloody please, it is not going to change the facts. They are one in the same and we all know it. Deny it if you wish, it does not change the facts. Wasa, I have a report from yesterday or Wednesday that you are also another handle. Hell, I have one that *I* am another handle - and that many people are other handles. I am saying/writing that I do not know for sure that they are the same person, and just because someone tells me they are doesn't make it any more true to me. There are things that strongly indicate they are the same person... there are also contraindications.

I damn well have PMed you guys and provided specific links to problem issues. I'm sick and tired of being ignored by you guys. I devote a lot of time doing my thing here just as others and being ignored is quite frankly, without excuse. If you want to tell me to buggar off.. kewl Beans. I can take that. I may not agree with it but I can deal with it. Ignoring me is childish and/or unprofessional. There is no excuse. I have been a mod and it is no piece of cake. You will never please everyone, it isn't going to happen. I get that, I have no problem with that. Ignoring me is simply unprofessional. If you don't respond to me when I have legit issues, then it is your responsibility to make sure someone else does. Even if it is to tell me to buggar off. But to ignore me? That's just wrong. If you don't have time for this volunteer job it is your responsibility to find help. I can't speak for Alexandra or any other mod. I'm sure you understand that. What PMs Alexandra has in her inbox -- I have no clue. I know that I do not have PMs re: this issue, outside of the last few days. The messages I have received (all via reported posts I believe), that were not already handled by someone else by the time I saw them, I have addressed. I had no idea you had sent out specific PMs. If they were unanswered then I apologize on general moderator behalf, because that shouldn't happen. You are right, if you're reporting a concern, then even a generic "thanks for bringing it to our attention, we will..." is appropriate (though perhaps not immediate). I'm not going to speculate on what any other moderator has/did/thought/read/whatever because it's just that. I think on this point, if any more is to be said, we need to give people the opportunity to speak for themselves if that's what they wish to do. I cannot speak for them. *I* personally have not ignored you (more to agree with what you said than anything else), so I take this as a general "moderators" vent. I can direct the others to this post and make sure they're aware of your concern, but that's about it.

I want to know specifics here. You suggest we deal with our own issues. As a mod of another forum I get that, I agree with that. But when it has gotten out of hand please let me specifically just what the target of those issues SHOULD do? If what we are doing isn't working, what should we do? I never said taking care of your own issues is ALL that should happen. And it isn't. I will be the first to admit that things don't happen as quicky around here as I sometimes would like. We don't have a perfect system by any means, nor do we have mods who are all around/available at the same time. But - because you aren't publically seeing action does not mean action hasn't been put in place. As I said above, I agree that you should have gotten acknowledgement on your concerns, and I apologize if you did not.

As for specifics, I really don't have the time right now to search, pull up quotes, etc. -- but would rather respond in the time I do have, rather than leave this hanging. I hope you can understand that, and can model my paraphrasing into things that are familiar to you. I have seen a lot of "jab" type posts by you guys lately. Not ONLY you guys. I never once said that. And I didn't say "it's your fault" or "you caused it." Don't read that in. References such as "Oh no! You're posting here too! You must be a STALKER!" or threads started to say "I'm happy and you know why!" -- those may help you feel better, truly they might, but you have to admit they going to fan the fire more than supress it. That's what I'm saying.

Some people have issues that are beyond our control and nothing we do makes a difference. It is my opinion that as a mod it is then time for you guys to step in and say enough. If it doesn't end there then you need to get rid of the trouble maker types. And again - because you haven't seen action doesn't mean action isn't being taken. As a mod, you'll understand that even more so. And as I already admitted, we don't have a perfect system and it does at times take longer than I would prefer. But by and large, when we agree that something is a problem, we get it taken care of it.

That hasn't happened, instead you are passing out blame as though we have control of these issues. What is it that you want us to do, please, I'm begging... provide specifics. I don't know that I can agree completely. There are (at least) four parties that contribute to the outcome of an online (or real) situation: the parties on either side of the dispute, the moderating body, and the observers. ALL parties could have responded in more productive ways. I am not omitting the moderators here from any part in things going downhill. I have said that we as moderators cannot always act as quickly as we would like, and I have said that I do not think it's right if your PMs highlighting your concerns went unanswered. I have locked threads and given out warnings, and posted a heckuva lot about the topic that you guys will never see.

With the above said, I do want to make a point of saying what little has been done has ONLY been done by you. I PMed Alexandra with specifics. I never heard a word. Yet I realize that you found the same issues I did and you did put forth some effort to confront the issues. You are the only one. I'm not downing Alexandra, I am asking why I was ignored. It's not like I PM you guys with every whim. I don't PM you guys on a daily basis, or weekly. Heck, I don't even contact you monthly. So doesn't that mean I should at least hear that you received my issues and you either agree or not? Com'on, ignoring me is fruitless and non productive. Same as above - I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can (and will) ensure the others are aware that this conversation is here and that there are concerns.

At least I thought that was the case. As of late I'm beginning to question that concept. With all due respect, just where is the immaturity vs. the frustration? There really is a difference. Are we better than other boards? I don't know, I don't go to other boards, nor is it a status/competition point that I'm worried about. We certainly aren't perfect. There are things that we as moderators could do very differently. There are certainly things we could do "better" (or insert value statement of choice). We know that - we've discussed it - we don't have perfect solutions for it. There are always things that could be done differentlyby all sides. I mean - that's always the case with anything. I think there's a mature way to handle frustration, and an immature way, and all kinds of shades in between. But yes, I do understand that frustration and immaturity are different things. As for where it is - posting something like "Oh no, quit following me, you're a STALKER!" - I can see that coming out of frustration. I can also see how it might provoke someone and be a "jab." I think that when an entire thread is started with the (apparent) intention of saying "Woohoo I'm excited and you know why!" (I think that's the Snoopy thread Laurend mentioned earlier... and I don't remember for sure but I think she admitted to immaturity or a coulda done it differently... but I don't know without taking the time to go find it) - that might be frustration, but can you understand how it also reads as immature? It could have easily been a private conversation that would get any frustrations across just as well. (As could a lot of things).

As I stated earlier, I will point the other mods here, to ensure they know this conversation is happening, and so that we can give them an opportunity to speak for themselves - I can't do it for them.

[green 6]

I get it laurend, I really do. That's what's so awful about this, some people are coming to certain threads to learn and for support and they read negative jabs at other posters and want to run away. That's a shame!

But there are nuts everywhere in the world. You can't crack 'em all. If you try to, you'll get a tummyache.

You're a very good person and very intelligent. You add so much to this forum. I don't want to lose you!!!

It's best for you and Wasa to completely ignore the snipes and barbs contained in such posts. Whenever bitterness and mean spiritness is apparent it ends up speaking for itself and does finally alienate other folk.

Most of our LBT barroom brawls are so much fun because, however flamboyant these may be, these are all about ideas, not about each other. This is how the smokers and non-smokers, the left wing-nuts and the right wing-nuts, the believers and the atheists - you know what I mean - can be duking it out on one thread and be the best of friends on another. This is part of the value and the charm of LBT in my opinion.

When you personally engage in these spite matches you, too, risk alienating folk. This is in part because most readers don't know what these fights are all about, they don't know any of the background history, and so the posts make for boring and pointless reading for the outsiders. It also means, and now I am going to sound like Mummy, that you are stooping to a baser level, and that you, too, will sound like spite merchants.

Now, LizRbit, I have no idea as to who started what but I do know that you and your Aunt have been the ones to toss in the latest posts, the ones which have served to stir all this crap up again. And I know that you, grrl, can do better. You and I got into a flaming brawl about smoking sometime ago - an idea-driven brawl - and parted as friends, I trust. Indeed you made painful personal revelations at that time for which I respect you very, very much.

LBT is a big and very interesting site for although we have all come here because we have weight issues apart from this we are very different. This is, in my opinion, a real strength. In RL we tend to meet people like ourselves; here we get to meet all sorts of folks. There is lots of room here for all of us. Put down your personal guns, suggests Green, and let's get back to arguing ideologies, talking about ideas, and problems associated with personal lard, relationships, and anything else which might interest or amuse us.

Sorry for having gone all Dr. Phil on you all, eh.