The Statistics are not in our favor? (According to my worried Dad)

[Anna Nim 196]

My Dad is hard hitting me not to have this surgery. I am 46, BMI 40, Arthritis in both knees and obviously no long-term ability to keep it off.

He is gathering stats and posting them to me in emails.

Here is an excerpt below, what do you think of his stats?

"I have never seen so much distortions and obscurations pertaining to anything as is done in bariatric surgery.

I thought knee replacement was bad with all the hype but nothing like this!!

There are hundreds of "authoritative" articles on the subject, almost all of which are blatantly designed to appeal to your emotions.

Half the forums are a joke mixed with truthful questions and experiences and often salted with carefully spin doctor messages.

The most complete reporting that I have found with only moderate spin is: www.obesitycoverage.com " Gastric By Pass vs. Gastric Sleeve Surgery."

I feel that you doing this surgery could be without a doubt the worst decision in your life.

You've got to know the probable consequences and they are not good.

Colette, this is one of those times that even if you feel that the probability of serious occurrences occurring is low...you still just do not do it..... You just don't do it because if any of the serious consequences do occur, they are so unalterably life changing negative that you can not risk it no matter what because it will be forever.

I don't get where you say the odds are in your favor? They are not.

Yes, I understand that the death rate is low, (which I am thankful for), but to have some complications are almost guaranteed. You have got to know that by now.

Read the article.

Even if you ignore the 60% to 70% probability of indigestion, nausea and dehydration, the percentage of occurrence of mild to severe complications is a huge collective 88.9% !!!

GERD 47%

Nutritional deficiency 12%

Gallstones 23%

Acute Stricture 3.5%

Deep Vein Thrombosis 1%

Staple line failure 2.4%

Total: 88.9%

Please don't go through with this. We can figure something else out. You do have options. Dad"

[larry971 279]

My Dad is hard hitting me not to have this surgery. I am 46, BMI 40, Arthritis in both knees and obviously no long-term ability to keep it off.

He is gathering stats and posting them to me in emails.

Here is an excerpt below, what do you think of his stats?

"I have never seen so much distortions and obscurations pertaining to anything as is done in bariatric surgery.

I thought knee replacement was bad with all the hype but nothing like this!!

There are hundreds of "authoritative" articles on the subject, almost all of which are blatantly designed to appeal to your emotions.

Half the forums are a joke mixed with truthful questions and experiences and often salted with carefully spin doctor messages.

The most complete reporting that I have found with only moderate spin is: www.obesitycoverage.com " Gastric By Pass vs. Gastric Sleeve Surgery."

I feel that you doing this surgery could be without a doubt the worst decision in your life.

You've got to know the probable consequences and they are not good.

Colette, this is one of those times that even if you feel that the probability of serious occurrences occurring is low...you still just do not do it..... You just don't do it because if any of the serious consequences do occur, they are so unalterably life changing negative that you can not risk it no matter what because it will be forever.

I don't get where you say the odds are in your favor? They are not.

Yes, I understand that the death rate is low, (which I am thankful for), but to have some complications are almost guaranteed. You have got to know that by now.

Read the article.

Even if you ignore the 60% to 70% probability of indigestion, nausea and dehydration, the percentage of occurrence of mild to severe complications is a huge collective 88.9% !!!

GERD 47%

Nutritional deficiency 12%

Gallstones 23%

Acute Stricture 3.5%

Deep Vein Thrombosis 1%

Staple line failure 2.4%

Total: 88.9%

Please don't go through with this. We can figure something else out. You do have options. Dad"

The fact there's a few people who said this was a bad idea because it wouldn't last. I told them flat out that if I get 4 - 5 years of normalcy then it will be well worth the time. That's four or five years I won't have if I do nothing or change nothing and if it was so easy I would have done it a long time ago.

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[Airstream88 361]

It's wonderful you have a Dad that is so caring and worried for you (I lost mine when I was 12). However, you are an adult now and need to make the right decision for you. Yes this is a life changing operation. But the first 4 on the list can be controlled and/or fixed if they occur. The DVT is a possible side effect of any surgery and good surgeons (I highly recommend Bariatric Center of Excellence programs) will test for leaks before they allow you to even take that first drink.

I too have arthritic knees that I had to take 15 mg Meloxicam to walk comfortably. Two months after my Gastric Bypass and 46 pounds lighter, I can control the knee pain with Tylenol. They are still not totally pain free but much better than before.

[Malin 470]

He's adding up ALL that could possibly go wrong to get a big number--a big number to shock you. Which isn't proving his point. I'd throw back some numbers totaling 100% of the risks of staying obese. You can have complications coloring your hair (allergic reaction), eating too much cheese (constipation) and listening to too much Nickelback (headaches and regret).

Ok, so I made the last one up.

[heidikat72 935]

With all due respect, your father doesn't understand how to interpret statistics associated with potential complications - you don't just simply add them up to arrive at a "total".

If he truly read the article you reference with an OPEN mind, he would have seen that for nausea and dehydration - the article itself even says this is when patients aren't getting in enough fluids. This is why the bariatric programs and the vets on this forum always always always stress how important it is to meet your Fluid intake goals. Seriously, getting in your fluids those first few weeks is YOUR JOB - even if it takes you 18hrs a day of constant sipping, DO IT. Drinking will get easier as the swelling goes down and you can drink more normally (rather than teeny tiny sips). But it is always important to track your Fluid intake and make sure you are getting enough.

As for GERD - it does happen but often is temporary - and most bariatric programs will have you on a PPI for a couple months. You may need to have your dosage adjusted, you may need to stay on it longer - but as long as you work with your bariatric team on this and don't ignore the symptoms, it is manageable.

Gallstones - yep this is a common one. And yes, a gallstone attack can be excruciatingly painful. But you know what? I'd still rather have a couple gallstone attacks and get my gallbladder removed if needed than deal with all the other LIFELONG and LIFE THREATENING side effects of obesity. Oh and guess what, there's a good chance you could end up with gallstones at some point even if you don't have WLS.

Strictures - there are people on this forum who have had a stricture. Perhaps one of them can weigh in here. I believe at least some of them have been able to have it corrected/managed and still don't regret the surgery one bit.

Deep vein thrombosis - a risk with any surgery honestly especially when your mobility may not be great immediately following. This is especially true with obese patients who already have mobility issues and/or aren't active. Many programs assess your risk for this based on your current condition and family history of blood clots. Based on this, it may be recommended to have an IVC filter put in your leg temporarily - the filter will catch any clots that form and migrate before they reach your lungs and lead to a pulmonary embolism. The more common approach is to administer blood thinner injections for a couple weeks after surgery. And to walk walk walk walk walk as much as you can post op - the more active you are, the less the change of a blot developing in the first place!

Nutritional deficiency - this is why you take Vitamins, calcium/vitamin D supplements and B12 supplements. Why you focus on Protein first, followed by veggies then fruit and lastly starches. And why you get your blood work checked regularly post op so that any deficiencies can be treated before they become a problem. For instance on my program, that means blood work at 3, 6, 9, 12 18 and 24 months post op and annually thereafter. Also, with the sleeve you don't have the malabsorption associated with the bypass. Your Vitamin supplementation is due to the reduced volume intake. And I know personally many sleeve patients who once they are a couple years out have been able to cut back to supplementing with just one Multivitamin a day.

I am guessing he thinks the forums are a joke because they don't support his pre-conceived negativity regarding this surgery? What exactly does he think your other options are and what are the "stats" associated with those options? His scare tactics are disgusting. Would he rather your life be shortened and your quality of life be miserable with the obesity? Have you really told him truthfully and completely the impact the obesity has on your life?

At the end of the day - you are a 46 year old woman. You don't need daddy to sign off on your surgery. I understand wanting family emotional support - but if you don't get it, you can still go ahead with surgery. This is a decision to be made between you and your medical team. Is dad willing to go to an appointment with your medical team and hear directly from them? Ask about the complications, how they can be mitigated and what their practice's actual complication rate is? Or is he so stuck in his negativity that he wouldn't listen to the medical professionals either?

[Fredbear 397]

Tell him he's a meddling old fart and he needs to back to f$%k off.

Also, you need to grow some backbone, you're an adult.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Fredbear

[Ssze1109 163]

Look at the diseases from obesity. They have higher stats than those most likely.

He is concerned for you. But ultimately you have to live with the choice.

Every surgery has possible consequences.

Good luck with your decision. Talk to your Dr about your concern.

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[larry971 279]

Wow you guys are mean. It's her dad. He's nervous for her. But I do agree you're an adult. And you know what's best for you listen to what he says but also know that those numbers aren't real. I worked on the drug study a few years back and they literally had to put in the morning that there was a chance of getting hit by a bus while taking the medication because 3 study participants we're sitting at a bus stop and a bus hit them. They had to go through lots of litigation to get that removed. So do what's best for you. But I don't see a whole lot of people on here saying how terrible it move it was for them.

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[Armygalbonnie 643]

An extended comment to what Heidikat sad about gallstones. The most common predictors for gallstones are the 3 F's: fat, forty, female. You meet all 3. It's just a matter of time before you will need your gallbladder taken out. With obesity, your risk for heart disease is very high, not to mention more cancer risks, HTN, diabetes, high cholesterol and joint damage. To me, taking Vitamins and changing my whole perspective on food and nutrition, WAY out weigh all the health risks of obesity. Good luck in your decision making. I didn't tell my father I was having the surgery done because this is exactly how he would have acted. I know your father's comments are out of concern, mine would have been because my dad is judgmental against obese people.

[MissJDVSG 129]

Well, to start, the odds of having all of the complications together as a collective are low. So by that logic, the "collective 88.9%" is not statistically, or in any other sense, accurate. And gallstones are likely with any massive weight loss, I believe, with or without surgery.

I think it's nice that your dad is worried about you, but you cannot take his concerns as fact (unless he is a doctor or an actual statistician).

Yes, there are complications. But ask your surgeon about their particular complication rate. (Mine has had only 3 leaks in over 800+ surgeries, and those people were smoking after surgery and didn't heal right).

I'm still pre-op, but these complications don't worry me. If any of them happen to me, they will be small potatoes compared to the challenges of obesity. I'm 27, and I don't want to live my life like this anymore.

I guess the most important thing is to figure out what you want to do. Your dad is always going to worry, but you have to make the best decision for you, whether or not he agrees with it. Good luck with whatever you choose!

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[heidikat72 935]

We're all "mean" for pointing out errors in her father's logic but her dad is just "nervous" for her? Someone who is just concerned for her wouldn't cherry pick pieces of an article out of context of the rest of the article, then inappropriately add them up in order to scare her into thinking that 86% of the people who have WLS have a serious complication. Someone who is just concerned for her, would do some research with an open mind and not call everything that goes against their negative opinion a "joke". Someone who is just concerned would attempt to meet with the medical team and ask questions about their concerns. Plus if you read her other posts/threads - there is a history there of negative and manipulative behavior on his part.

For the OP - I know based on your other threads that you were hoping/expecting your dad to pay for part of the surgery based on him initially offering too. My thought is he didn't actually think you were going to go through with it and probably never had any intention of paying for any of it and is using these scare tactics in order to not have to come right out and tell you that he is rescinding his offer. I think it would be in your best interest to try to find some other way to come up with the needed money and even check with your bariatric team to see if you can set up an installment payment plan with them.

Wow you guys are mean. It's her dad. He's nervous for her. But I do agree you're an adult. And you know what's best for you listen to what he says but also know that those numbers aren't real. I worked on the drug study a few years back and they literally had to put in the morning that there was a chance of getting hit by a bus while taking the medication because 3 study participants we're sitting at a bus stop and a bus hit them. They had to go through lots of litigation to get that removed. So do what's best for you. But I don't see a whole lot of people on here saying how terrible it move it was for them.

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[sc101071 398]

I understand why our loved ones worry. They care deeply about us, and for the most part accept us as we are.

Yes, some people have complications as a result of surgery. But those of us that do not lose the weight have much greater risks of complications from metabolic disorders, and joint disorders, and pain from being heavy.

I'm only 4 months out, but I am so glad that I made this decision. Fortunately, I was one of the many that had zero problems with surgery, recovery, or building up to my new normal diet. My brain has been re-wired as to food by the surgery. Who knows, in 4 years, I may be 600 lbs and wonder what the hell happened, but i don't see it.

Here is a medical study I read after surgery. It's not really on risks, but it is very interesting, and zero spin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3410227/

[MTWilliams 86]

He's adding up ALL that could possibly go wrong to get a big number--a big number to shock you. Which isn't proving his point. I'd throw back some numbers totaling 100% of the risks of staying obese. You can have complications coloring your hair (allergic reaction), eating too much cheese (constipation) and listening to too much Nickelback (headaches and regret).

Ok, so I made the last one up.

@Malin....you're hilarious girl. Yeah, I like how he added that all up in the end like that's how stats work. Oh fathers, we'll intended but so funny.

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[MTWilliams 86]

It's cute and heart warming that your dad cares so much for you that he would go through all of this to convince you not to have it. I can see my dad doing this but surprisingly he was fine with my choice. My mom cried about it and begged me not to. It's hard for them too, probably because they in part feel like they're to blame since they're the ones who taught you how to eat and what to eat. Stay strong and make the best choice for your comfort and body.

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[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

@@Anna Nim

Are you and adult or a child? Seriously. You have to decide and make your own decisions. Your Dad I am sure loves you, but is manipulating you because of his own fears.

I'm almost 17 months out with no complications. I had issues with GERD only the first 6-9 months and most of that was my own fault for over eating when I was out and couldn't weigh my food. I have no issues with GERD now and take nothing for it.