Are revisions REALLY necessary?

[Aggiemae 739]

We disagree on what is and isn't ethical. I had a morbidly and mortality yesterday. 357 lb 42 yo band to sleeve to bypass died in the ER.

Seems to me that our south western boarder is teaming with doctors all to happy to "revise" anyone who has the cash.

And NO, I am NOT saying that every, or even most, doctors in Mexico are unethical.

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[Jen Mac 28]

We disagree on what is and isn't ethical. I had a morbidly and mortality yesterday. 357 lb 42 yo band to sleeve to bypass died in the ER.

Seems to me that our south western boarder is teaming with doctors all to happy to "revise" anyone who has the cash.

And NO, I am NOT saying that every, or even most, doctors in Mexico are unethical.

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One M&M for a surgery done in Mexico isn't really what I think most people here are talking about. You say we have differing ideas about what is unethical, and we clearly do... I am not a surgeon, nor do I purport to know all the risks and benefits, but I do believe they are highly individualized and best left to those educated on the procedure. There will always be outliers. There will always be truly unethical practices. But it sounds like there is a very black and white line of thinking here and I don't want to make people who have had revisions feel like they need to hide it or that they have done something wrong. I know 2 people who have had successful revisions. One of them done by my surgeon. She is amazing (my surgeon)... I work with her. She's done so many of these procedures she has it down to a science. I take care of her patients and chose her for her lack of complications and experience. She is a lifesaver to many and anything but unethical.

[Babbs 14,681]

@@Jen Mac

Okay, so let me get this straight. You're okay with someone who has not resolved their issues with food having surgery after surgery after surgery? Because that sounds like very unhealthy behavior to me and shouldn't be encouraged or enabled. If they are a true food addict, the best treatment isn't another surgery, but psychological treatment first and foremost.

My opinion.

[Jen Mac 28]

@@Jen MacOkay, so let me get this straight. You're okay with someone who has not resolved their issues with food having surgery after surgery after surgery? Because that sounds like very unhealthy behavior to me and shouldn't be encouraged or enabled. If they are a true food addict, the best treatment isn't another surgery, but psychological treatment first and foremost. My opinion.

Not what I said at all... but hey, read what you like into it, we all seem to be doing that. I said people deserve second chances. I said not all doctors who perform them are unethical. I said I don't want to make anyone feel ashamed for having a revision. I said I found my place here on this board after I never thought I'd be fat again, so I can see how someone would have faltered.

Let he who be without sin cast the first stone... everyone deserves a second chance... I did not say any of those things you think I said. Not my opinion... fact.

[Aggiemae 739]

Um..

We disagree on what is and isn't ethical. I had a morbidly and mortality yesterday. 357 lb 42 yo band to sleeve to bypass died in the ER.

Seems to me that our south western boarder is teaming with doctors all to happy to "revise" anyone who has the cash.

And NO, I am NOT saying that every, or even most, doctors in Mexico are unethical.

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

One M&M for a surgery done in Mexico isn't really what I think most people here are talking about. You say we have differing ideas about what is unethical, and we clearly do... I am not a surgeon, nor do I purport to know all the risks and benefits, but I do believe they are highly individualized and best left to those educated on the procedure. There will always be outliers. There will always be truly unethical practices. But it sounds like there is a very black and white line of thinking here and I don't want to make people who have had revisions feel like they need to hide it or that they have done something wrong. I know 2 people who have had successful revisions. One of them done by my surgeon. She is amazing (my surgeon)... I work with her. She's done so many of these procedures she has it down to a science. I take care of her patients and chose her for her lack of complications and experience. She is a lifesaver to many and anything but unethical.

Wow, you seem to be reading a lot into these posts and being pretty judgmental ((and black and white) yourself... Google a few "medical tourism" WLS practices and a email/text them that you are seeking a revision. See how through of a history they take before taking your credit card number and scheduling you.

BTW,where did I say that the surgery was done in Mexico? Um...nowhere.

[Babbs 14,681]

@@Jen MacOkay, so let me get this straight. You're okay with someone who has not resolved their issues with food having surgery after surgery after surgery? Because that sounds like very unhealthy behavior to me and shouldn't be encouraged or enabled. If they are a true food addict, the best treatment isn't another surgery, but psychological treatment first and foremost. My opinion.

Not what I said at all... but hey, read what you like into it, we all seem to be doing that. I said people deserve second chances. I said not all doctors who perform them are unethical. I said I don't want to make anyone feel ashamed for having a revision. I said I found my place here on this board after I never thought I'd be fat again, so I can see how someone would have faltered.

Let he who be without sin cast the first stone... everyone deserves a second chance... I did not say any of those things you think I said. Not my opinion... fact.

This thread was started as a discussion about revision surgery, which we were having a nice civil one until you came along and decided to be the thread police and declare that we were shaming anyone who has a revision.

There's always one who has to come in and claim everyone is shaming someone when we try to have a frank, honest discussion. But you're new here. I'll let it go.

[Jen Mac 28]

Um..

We disagree on what is and isn't ethical. I had a morbidly and mortality yesterday. 357 lb 42 yo band to sleeve to bypass died in the ER.

Seems to me that our south western boarder is teaming with doctors all to happy to "revise" anyone who has the cash.

And NO, I am NOT saying that every, or even most, doctors in Mexico are unethical.

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

One M&M for a surgery done in Mexico isn't really what I think most people here are talking about. You say we have differing ideas about what is unethical, and we clearly do... I am not a surgeon, nor do I purport to know all the risks and benefits, but I do believe they are highly individualized and best left to those educated on the procedure. There will always be outliers. There will always be truly unethical practices. But it sounds like there is a very black and white line of thinking here and I don't want to make people who have had revisions feel like they need to hide it or that they have done something wrong. I know 2 people who have had successful revisions. One of them done by my surgeon. She is amazing (my surgeon)... I work with her. She's done so many of these procedures she has it down to a science. I take care of her patients and chose her for her lack of complications and experience. She is a lifesaver to many and anything but unethical.

Wow, you seem to be reading a lot into these posts and being pretty judgmental ((and black and white) yourself... Google a few "medical tourism" WLS practices and a email/text them that you are seeking a revision. See how through of a history they take before taking your credit card number and scheduling you.

BTW,where did I say that the surgery was done in Mexico? Um...nowhere.

I am familiar with leaving the country for surgery as it's cheaper... you said something about doctors in Mexico... I am not here to debate this with you, or anyone else, I am here to SUPPORT people. The ONLY reason I said my piece was to try and say that we are all different and NOONE should be made to feel bad if they needed/had a revision.

This is turning into a who's right and wrong. I'm out. You can have the win since it seems to mean so much to you...

[Jen Mac 28]

@@Jen MacOkay, so let me get this straight. You're okay with someone who has not resolved their issues with food having surgery after surgery after surgery? Because that sounds like very unhealthy behavior to me and shouldn't be encouraged or enabled. If they are a true food addict, the best treatment isn't another surgery, but psychological treatment first and foremost. My opinion.

Not what I said at all... but hey, read what you like into it, we all seem to be doing that. I said people deserve second chances. I said not all doctors who perform them are unethical. I said I don't want to make anyone feel ashamed for having a revision. I said I found my place here on this board after I never thought I'd be fat again, so I can see how someone would have faltered.

Let he who be without sin cast the first stone... everyone deserves a second chance... I did not say any of those things you think I said. Not my opinion... fact.

This thread was started as a discussion about revision surgery, which we were having a nice civil one until you came along and decided to be the thread police and declare that we were shaming anyone who has a revision.

There's always one who has to come in and claim everyone is shaming someone when we try to have a frank, honest discussion. But you're new here. I'll let it go.

Thanks... I can feel the love.

[Aggiemae 739]

I wonder who would cry harder someone offended by my opinion that having a revision without addressing the underlying issue that caused the regaining of the weight or the 2 young children who don't have a father because he died of complications from a surgery that would not have had the desired outcome even if it hadn't killed him.

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[Aggiemae 739]

Good thing I already know how to use the block feature!

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[Aggiemae 739]

I read the posts about sleeve vs bypass for people with RA a few pages back and wanted to comment.

I have non progressive autoimmune disorder and I test positive for RA have a few flairs a year with long emissions.

My liver reached max tolerance for acetaminophen in 1993 and my kidne us actually failed from years of ibuprofen use. I had serious side effect from methotrexate and both biologics I tried. Because there weren't any better options I have been on narcotic pain medication for most of the past 12 years. And

yes, prednisone is my best friend and my worse enemy.

I have a gastric sleeve and am now just past 5 weeks post op. The pain was reduced within a week, though it took two more weeks to Tauber down from 20 mg of long-lasting oxytocin and 24-30 mg of dilaudid (4-12 mg every 4-6 hours) i have been completely off narcotic pain meds for over two weeks.

I was aware that a bypass was more likely to improve my autoimmune disorders blut it was just too drastic of an alteration for me to wrap my mind around and my surgeon believed that the sleeve would give me some improvement.

.

In any case I think some of the improvement is because of the high Protein diet as my pain impoves when ever I up my Protein and severely decrease carbs, but there is something more going on because I feel better every day.

Sorry about the length. Hopefully this thread will survive the recent "kerfluffle".

[1Day1Life4Now 882]

I guess I view revisions for whatever reason to be at the discretion of the surgeon and patient. Everyone's story is different, but even if it is not "medically necessary", who am I to say another isn't worthy of a second chance?

I am a nurse and have taken care of addicts of all nature and see the rate of recidivism/relapse. I know that it takes more than one round of treatment some times... yes, surgery is a major intervention and there are risks associated with it, but to say a surgeon is "unethical" for performing them as revisions is a bit judgemental, regardless of whether or not there is perceptible tone.

Pray you never find yourself in a position where you have "eaten your way through" your surgery. We are all human and not infallible. I lost 115 lbs the "natural" way and kept it off for over 10 years. I NEVER thought I would gain that weight back. I thought my food issues were resolved. But here I am, typing this post on the bariatric pal thread. I gained all the weight back and then some. Went from 165 lbs to 362. I needed surgery to help with this. We all did, right? That's why we're here.

I'm here to find support and offer it to others... if I had a revision and came here looking for support and was reading this, I think I'd cry. There are those that judge us because we had to have the surgery the first time... let's not do the same to someone who found themselves here twice.

These are my feelings exactly. People judge you when you are obese and when you try to get help and support they're judging again? I got a pass because I had "medical issues". Well someone that has a an emotional or mental issue with eating still has a medical issue and I'm not going to judge them because I know it is not helpful. I think some people on the board have forgotten how it feels to be judged.

[summerset 5,265]

People judge you when you are obese and when you try to get help and support they're judging again? I got a pass because I had "medical issues". Well someone that has a an emotional or mental issue with eating still has a medical issue and I'm not going to judge them because I know it is not helpful. I think some people on the board have forgotten how it feels to be judged.

Ok, I admit I'm having a bit of a bad conscience here because what I wrote about revisions might not have reflected what I think about "mental/emotional stuff" and revisions. I don't know if I will make it worse with elaborating or not but here it goes:

- physical problems: no amount of psych or nutritional counseling will get you rid of this, might as well have a revision as soon as possible and (hopefully) your issues will be resolved but of course there is no guarantee that it will be 100% ok.

- mental/emotional stuff: I think that's a more difficult thing. I already said that there is a lot of judgement within the WLS community if there is not a diagnosed medical problem that justifies a revision ("patient ate his way through surgery and will continue to do so", "not educated enough" etc.)

I'm a bit more careful when it comes to revision because of emotional/mental issues. It might be that the second surgery (as in second try or second chance) will be successful because the patient has learnt from past mistakes and will do way better the second time around and it might be not. Maybe e. g. sleeve wasn't the right method? Maybe e. g. the DS will be the right method?

However, it might be that surgery wasn't the right way to go for the patient in the end - unfortunately you only know after surgery has been performed if it was the right way to go or not. This doesn't mean "blaming the patient". It only means it wasn't the right treatment for the patient.

No treatment has a 100% success guarantee. Some treatments fail patients 100% (no success at all) and some fail patients e. g. 65% (partly success).

I recently made the experience myself (nothing WLS related) that a treatment has only been partly successful. Do I blame myself now? Does my doctor blame me now? Do the people in my environment blame me now? Of course they don't. I received a treatment option that was low risk and not invasive and it didn't work the way I hoped. I have an appointment due next Tuesday and it will be discussed what to do now (more wait and see or something more aggressive) - no blaming involved.

And that is the way it should be with WLS related issues as well IMO. Unfortunately there is a lot of blaming and judgement going on when it comes to WLS, fellow patients being the worst. Yes, I see that having WLS is quite a risk so having (second) surgery is no piece of cake you simply give a try if it works or not - but that doesn't fully explain why the WLS community can be incredibly harsh when it comes to "lack of success".

[Aggiemae 739]

How is being concerned that someone is getting poor or possibly unethical medical care being judgmental? WLS is a CASH COW for many surgeons.

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[SALATHIA01 2]

I am a rny revision patient scheduled for surgery on the 27th. I exercise regularly, eat what I'm supposed to and I originally lost 130 and recently gained 30 back at 5 years out. My pouch simply stretched over time and I consume more. I don't want to gain my weight back so YES I'm having revision so that my journey will stay on track. It's easy to say that we failed now because you aren't years out. But the reality is you really have to speak for you and your situation only.

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