Seriously?

[Hammer_Down 631]

I guess I grew up in the same culture. I was once grounded for 2 weeks for lying Ronny nother's face about a phone call. When I left the room, she *69ed that thing immediately and it was game over. I was held to high standard regarding honesty and integrity, and no one at home ever cut me any slack.

A lot of people don't like me because I refuse to butter their behinds. I state my opinions openly and honestly, and if I don't know what I'm talking about I admit it freely.

In return, I hold others to a high standard. I don't ask for advice unless I really want it. If my doctor, lawyer, friend or family fed me a bunch of vague platitudes when I asked for their opinions I would be pissed. If I wasn't ready to hear the truth, I would not ask for it.

[frananp03 110]

Just spent an hour of my life I'll never get back reading in the Pre-/Post-Op Sleeve forums and I'm amazed by what people will still, even as they're undertaking MAJOR SURGERY, say to justify their behavior.

There are people about to have most of their stomach removed who say "I don't have a problem with food". Say what?? I'm pretty sure the Fat Fairy didn't put all this weight on any of us, right? "I couldn't stop myself". Yes, you could have...you DIDN'T. "Everyone does it". No, they don't. YOU did.

As I'm typing this out, it's clear that I'm fed up with the lack of ownership of behavior. It's odd to watch fat people trying to float the same justifications here that they've used for years with other people. Walking into a group of fat people and saying "I don't have a problem with food" is pretty ridiculous...that dog just won't hunt here. If you can't be honest with yourself and a group of people much like yourself, how can you succeed with WLS? The non-ownership of our own actions and capabilities is what got many (most?) of us to where we are and it kills me that there are people STILL wallowing in the 'I don't control myself' pool who are getting WLS. What a waste.

Funny because I just had this very conversation with my surgeon this week. He has seen people gain in the first 6 weeks after surgery and then ask him "why isnt this working for me".

People are like this in all aspects of humanity, not just WLS. I have patients that I counsel about smoking because they have COPD. They tell me "i cant breath" "i cant afford my meds" but spend 50$ a week on cigarettes. They expect me to fix their problem while taking no responsibility for their actions.

We have a choice...it may not be an easy choice but its still a choice. We have an opportunity to change after WLS and we should seize it to make better choices. Not ruin it by continuing with the same bad behavior.

Gee, you sound like an RT in home health care...

actually inpatient hospitalist....so i see all kinds!!!

[OzRoo 1,492]

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.

I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.

I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to

imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.

When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.

If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"

Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"

Just my opinion.

Amazing post. And so true.

As someone who has been involved with 12 Step programs like AA most of my life, believe you me, there is none of that nonsense going on when someone in a meeting admits they 'slipped'. There's no coddling, head patting or excusing the behavior. There's just "Get your sh*t together, man, or you're going to DIE".

Agree!

Denial is Not a river in Africa, and people are advised that they can go out and do some more "research" while having all their misery refunded!

Definitely no coddling, or saying that "one" drink/drug/unhealthy food won't hurt ..... It will Hurt! It starts the addiction again, and some people unfortunately never make it back alive ....

[PorkChopExpress 820]

I don't coddle people. I try not to make them feel stupid, or insult them, but I'm going to call them on it when they are excusing their own behavior or seeking someone to enable them.

[summerset 5,265]

must

follow

own

advice

I need to stop reading right now. It's time I'll never get back.

[Babbs 14,681]

must

follow

own

advice

I need to stop reading right now. It's time I'll never get back.

Yes, please do. And make sure you post about how you disapprove of this thread before you stop reading. Like anybody cares, anyway.

[_Kate_ 2,224]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why there's so much anger and vitriol instead of compassion and more understanding. None of us get to a place where we need surgery because we've made good choices or had 100% transparency or honesty with ourselves or with others. Sometimes there are issues that run a lot deeper with some folks than others. You just never know a person's background or story.

I also know from my own past (I'm almost nine years out) and many of my friends in the WLS community we all had experiences where when we first had surgery and were doing remarkably well, we felt invincible and full of conviction and top of the world with our choices and actions. It's easy to get to a place of high-ground when you feel that way, which is why I think it's important to remember that it doesn't always stay that way. There are always going to be times when you question others actions, and that's normal and fine. But remember, there are probably others doing the same to you. Extend the same kindness you'd want for yourself.

Being judgemental with each other NEVER helps. Support is not judgemental. Support is support. You're there through the good times and the bad listening, lending an ear, giving the best advice you can through a supportive and encouraging lens that won't further damage someone(s) already struggling.

Perfectly said

[Hammer_Down 631]

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.

Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."

Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"

Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."

Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

[blizair09 3,250]

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.

Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."

Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"

Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."

Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

Again -- great post!

[Hammer_Down 631]

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.

Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."

Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"

Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."

Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

Again -- great post!

Thanks, I'm a new member to the forum but not new to the game. I mentioned before that not I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm not a nasty or mean spirited person. My friends all know not to ask my opinion if what they really want is validation. I don't want them telling people that I thought it was a good idea to purchase a brand new car when the car they had worked just fine and they're not employed full time. (Just an example, had 2 friends trying to convince me that "projecting success" is more important than being financially solvent, and I do not agree).

[theantichick 2,204]

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.

Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."

Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"

Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."

Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

THIS.

[ShelterDog64 2,364]

@@Hammer_Down Terms like 'bullying' and 'judgmental' are used so often, and again, used in the context of 'you're doing this to me' instead of owning the feeling and saying 'I feel bullied' or 'I feel judged'. Saying 'I cheated, I couldn't help it' instead of 'I decided to eat that pork chop' puts the responsibility for their behavior on someone else, the person who created the 'rule' instead of where it belongs, which is on themselves.

How you frame your response to others is SO important, and there are a lot of people in the WLS community who are still sitting around being victims rather than taking control of their emotions and responses to those emotions. I'm a compassionate, empathetic person, but I draw the line at becoming an enabler.

[mrsNilla 304]

Thank you, likeminded people!

I'm still pre-op for about 17 days. I have been staying off this site and chosen the posts I read carefully. I have made a plan for my wls journey and I don't want to stray from it because someone else makes self destructive choices. I got worried that the bad attitudes would catch me like a cold.

When I first joined, I found it amusing to read about the tacos, t-bone steaks by mistake and swedish fish beeing soft food. All the things you should know not to do if you did your research, even skimming through the basics.

Lately I have been talking to people who have just had their surgeries, read up on complications and really thought about my choice. I find that more valuable than trying to talk to the people who made their bad choices already and end their posts with "no negative comments allowed".

But then again, I need the people that make the mistakes, so my odds of reaching a healthy weight increases...

Thanks for being here and please hold me accountable if I stray off my intendend plan! No fuzzy feelings or pretty packages required, I need to make the most of it!

Nilla

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.

Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."

Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"

Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."

Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

Blunt but still not judgmental: No, I didn't "cheat" on my pre or post op diet. I'd suggest you check with your surgeon before you (insert request for validation).

Around these parts judgmental seems to equal disagreeing. Having a different point of view or opinion doesn't make one a monster. True story.

[The New Kel 1,312]

@@frananp03 said:

"We have a choice...it may not be an easy choice but its still a choice. We have an opportunity to change after WLS and we should seize it to make better choices. Not ruin it by continuing with the same bad behavior."

Well said. Pretty much sums up this whole discussion. I might just use this as my tagline!!