Seriously?

[ShelterDog64 2,364]

@@Diva Taunia **I guess what I'm trying to understand is why there's so much anger and vitriol instead of compassion and more understanding.**

I should have combined the 2 posts, sorry. I want to make sure that you understand there's no anger or vitriol coming from me. You're reading it into what I write and making assumptions that I'm not kind and/or compassionate. I'm both, and I feel pretty confident that I demonstrate that over and over on these boards, answering questions, encouraging people who are discouraged, messaging with people who don't feel comfortable posting their problems, sharing my problems and thoughts and trying to be a productive member of the community. BUT, I'm not perfect and I have a serious peeve with people who refuse to own their own actions. So I'm here in Rants and Raves, doing just that, instead of giving in to the temptation to be unkind to someone on the main boards.

I do have to say, I'm impressed by you calling Lipstick Lady's post a huge leap, then invoking Ghandi and the Dalai Lama to support your own

[frananp03 110]

Just spent an hour of my life I'll never get back reading in the Pre-/Post-Op Sleeve forums and I'm amazed by what people will still, even as they're undertaking MAJOR SURGERY, say to justify their behavior.

There are people about to have most of their stomach removed who say "I don't have a problem with food". Say what?? I'm pretty sure the Fat Fairy didn't put all this weight on any of us, right? "I couldn't stop myself". Yes, you could have...you DIDN'T. "Everyone does it". No, they don't. YOU did.

As I'm typing this out, it's clear that I'm fed up with the lack of ownership of behavior. It's odd to watch fat people trying to float the same justifications here that they've used for years with other people. Walking into a group of fat people and saying "I don't have a problem with food" is pretty ridiculous...that dog just won't hunt here. If you can't be honest with yourself and a group of people much like yourself, how can you succeed with WLS? The non-ownership of our own actions and capabilities is what got many (most?) of us to where we are and it kills me that there are people STILL wallowing in the 'I don't control myself' pool who are getting WLS. What a waste.

Funny because I just had this very conversation with my surgeon this week. He has seen people gain in the first 6 weeks after surgery and then ask him "why isnt this working for me".

People are like this in all aspects of humanity, not just WLS. I have patients that I counsel about smoking because they have COPD. They tell me "i cant breath" "i cant afford my meds" but spend 50$ a week on cigarettes. They expect me to fix their problem while taking no responsibility for their actions.

We have a choice...it may not be an easy choice but its still a choice. We have an opportunity to change after WLS and we should seize it to make better choices. Not ruin it by continuing with the same bad behavior.

[Hammer_Down 631]

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.

I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.

I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to

imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.

When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.

If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"

Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"

Just my opinion.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.

I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.

I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to

imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.

When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.

If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"

Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"

Just my opinion.

Preach.

[blizair09 3,250]

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.

I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.

I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to

imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.

When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.

If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"

Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"

Just my opinion.

Great post!

[frananp03 110]

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.

I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.

I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to

imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.

When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.

If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"

Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"

Just my opinion.

Preach.

Exactly...the liver transplant patient that just wants one drink. "Sure, i understand because i love beer too!"

[rolosmom7 740]

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.

I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.

I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to

imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.

When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.

If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"

Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"

Just my opinion.

Preach.

Exactly...the liver transplant patient that just wants one drink. "Sure, i understand because i love beer too!"

Good parallel! Maybe it'll knock some sense into people.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.

I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.

I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to

imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.

When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.

If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"

Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"

Just my opinion.

Preach.

Exactly...the liver transplant patient that just wants one drink. "Sure, i understand because i love beer too!"

Good parallel! Maybe it'll knock some sense into people.

EMPATHY.

Sorry. I don't speak that language.

[ShelterDog64 2,364]

@@shedo82773 Ugh, I can only imagine how hard it is to have a 'prissy pouch'!! Love that term, btw

[Babbs 14,681]

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.

I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.

I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to

imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.

When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.

If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"

Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"

Just my opinion.

Amazing post. And so true.

As someone who has been involved with 12 Step programs like AA most of my life, believe you me, there is none of that nonsense going on when someone in a meeting admits they 'slipped'. There's no coddling, head patting or excusing the behavior. There's just "Get your sh*t together, man, or you're going to DIE".

[ShelterDog64 2,364]

@@Hammer_Down I agree with everything you wrote, and you said it so well. Indeed, why should WLS patients be treated as though they're fragile butterflies, unable to hear that they need to learn to OWN their self-destructive behaviors? You're right in that I'd kick the living shit out of someone for indulging in one little rock of crack, so why indulge someone who eats chicken 3 days post op then declares "I don't have a problem with food"?? The bias goes both ways...if we want obesity treated like a dangerous disease, then the seriousness needs to convey when people talk about 'cheating' and 'indulging' in things that are clearly dangerous to them.

[rolosmom7 740]

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.

I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.

I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to

imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.

When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.

If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"

Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"

Just my opinion.

Amazing post. And so true.

As someone who has been involved with 12 Step programs like AA most of my life, believe you me, there is none of that nonsense going on when someone in a meeting admits they 'slipped'. There's no coddling, head patting or excusing the behavior. There's just "Get your sh*t together, man, or you're going to DIE".

Damn straight. I grew up in that culture, and my Dad never put up with that bs. No excuses was my childhood motto. People are pansies these days, thinking everywhere should be a safe space. Buck up!

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Damn straight. I grew up in that culture, and my Dad never put up with that bs. No excuses was my childhood motto. People are pansies these days, thinking everywhere should be a safe space. Buck up!

A true "safe space" is one where people tell you what you NEED to hear, not what you WANT to hear. That's the diff. IN MY OPINION.

[rolosmom7 740]

Damn straight. I grew up in that culture, and my Dad never put up with that bs. No excuses was my childhood motto. People are pansies these days, thinking everywhere should be a safe space. Buck up!

A true "safe space" is one where people tell you what you NEED to hear, not what you WANT to hear. That's the diff. IN MY OPINION.

Agreed. But 99% of people won't. Oh well.

[highfunctioningfatman 2,675]

Just spent an hour of my life I'll never get back reading in the Pre-/Post-Op Sleeve forums and I'm amazed by what people will still, even as they're undertaking MAJOR SURGERY, say to justify their behavior.

There are people about to have most of their stomach removed who say "I don't have a problem with food". Say what?? I'm pretty sure the Fat Fairy didn't put all this weight on any of us, right? "I couldn't stop myself". Yes, you could have...you DIDN'T. "Everyone does it". No, they don't. YOU did.

As I'm typing this out, it's clear that I'm fed up with the lack of ownership of behavior. It's odd to watch fat people trying to float the same justifications here that they've used for years with other people. Walking into a group of fat people and saying "I don't have a problem with food" is pretty ridiculous...that dog just won't hunt here. If you can't be honest with yourself and a group of people much like yourself, how can you succeed with WLS? The non-ownership of our own actions and capabilities is what got many (most?) of us to where we are and it kills me that there are people STILL wallowing in the 'I don't control myself' pool who are getting WLS. What a waste.

Funny because I just had this very conversation with my surgeon this week. He has seen people gain in the first 6 weeks after surgery and then ask him "why isnt this working for me".

People are like this in all aspects of humanity, not just WLS. I have patients that I counsel about smoking because they have COPD. They tell me "i cant breath" "i cant afford my meds" but spend 50$ a week on cigarettes. They expect me to fix their problem while taking no responsibility for their actions.

We have a choice...it may not be an easy choice but its still a choice. We have an opportunity to change after WLS and we should seize it to make better choices. Not ruin it by continuing with the same bad behavior.

Gee, you sound like an RT in home health care...