Seriously?

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Just spent an hour of my life I'll never get back reading in the Pre-/Post-Op Sleeve forums and I'm amazed by what people will still, even as they're undertaking MAJOR SURGERY, say to justify their behavior.

There are people about to have most of their stomach removed who say "I don't have a problem with food". Say what?? I'm pretty sure the Fat Fairy didn't put all this weight on any of us, right? "I couldn't stop myself". Yes, you could have...you DIDN'T. "Everyone does it". No, they don't. YOU did.

As I'm typing this out, it's clear that I'm fed up with the lack of ownership of behavior. It's odd to watch fat people trying to float the same justifications here that they've used for years with other people. Walking into a group of fat people and saying "I don't have a problem with food" is pretty ridiculous...that dog just won't hunt here. If you can't be honest with yourself and a group of people much like yourself, how can you succeed with WLS? The non-ownership of our own actions and capabilities is what got many (most?) of us to where we are and it kills me that there are people STILL wallowing in the 'I don't control myself' pool who are getting WLS. What a waste.

In other words, winner winner chicken dinner.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why there's so much anger and vitriol instead of compassion and more understanding. None of us get to a place where we need surgery because we've made good choices or had 100% transparency or honesty with ourselves or with others. Sometimes there are issues that run a lot deeper with some folks than others. You just never know a person's background or story.

I also know from my own past (I'm almost nine years out) and many of my friends in the WLS community we all had experiences where when we first had surgery and were doing remarkably well, we felt invincible and full of conviction and top of the world with our choices and actions. It's easy to get to a place of high-ground when you feel that way, which is why I think it's important to remember that it doesn't always stay that way. There are always going to be times when you question others actions, and that's normal and fine. But remember, there are probably others doing the same to you. Extend the same kindness you'd want for yourself.

Being judgemental with each other NEVER helps. Support is not judgemental. Support is support. You're there through the good times and the bad listening, lending an ear, giving the best advice you can through a supportive and encouraging lens that won't further damage someone(s) already struggling.

Helping someone justify potato chips at five weeks out, Swedish fish at five days out, alcohol at three days out, etc. is not **MY** idea of compassion or kindness. It doesn't help them and it especially doesn't help others reading, researching, absorbing.

People choose to be be offended or read comments as judgmental around these parts when their bad choices are not coddled, high fived and justified. From me, judgement is not at all intended 99% of the time (true story!) but clearly I am NEVER going to be a warm and fuzzy person so some choose to read it that way.

Everyone has a different interpretation of support and we will never all agree in that RIGHT definition. Some like it soft and coddling, others like it straight forward and to the point. It's the internet. Take what you need and ignore the rest.

[Dub 9,922]

Just spent an hour of my life I'll never get back reading in the Pre-/Post-Op Sleeve forums and I'm amazed by what people will still, even as they're undertaking MAJOR SURGERY, say to justify their behavior.

There are people about to have most of their stomach removed who say "I don't have a problem with food". Say what?? I'm pretty sure the Fat Fairy didn't put all this weight on any of us, right? "I couldn't stop myself". Yes, you could have...you DIDN'T. "Everyone does it". No, they don't. YOU did.

As I'm typing this out, it's clear that I'm fed up with the lack of ownership of behavior. It's odd to watch fat people trying to float the same justifications here that they've used for years with other people. Walking into a group of fat people and saying "I don't have a problem with food" is pretty ridiculous...that dog just won't hunt here. If you can't be honest with yourself and a group of people much like yourself, how can you succeed with WLS? The non-ownership of our own actions and capabilities is what got many (most?) of us to where we are and it kills me that there are people STILL wallowing in the 'I don't control myself' pool who are getting WLS. What a waste.

So true.

Those dogs won't hunt........

I also get worn out with the constant excuses and bs rationale that continues even after the pre-op counseling and severity of bariatric solutions is explained.....yet the mindset doesn't change. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!!

[genn 460]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why there's so much anger and vitriol instead of compassion and more understanding. None of us get to a place where we need surgery because we've made good choices or had 100% transparency or honesty with ourselves or with others. Sometimes there are issues that run a lot deeper with some folks than others. You just never know a person's background or story.

I also know from my own past (I'm almost nine years out) and many of my friends in the WLS community we all had experiences where when we first had surgery and were doing remarkably well, we felt invincible and full of conviction and top of the world with our choices and actions. It's easy to get to a place of high-ground when you feel that way, which is why I think it's important to remember that it doesn't always stay that way. There are always going to be times when you question others actions, and that's normal and fine. But remember, there are probably others doing the same to you. Extend the same kindness you'd want for yourself.

Being judgemental with each other NEVER helps. Support is not judgemental. Support is support. You're there through the good times and the bad listening, lending an ear, giving the best advice you can through a supportive and encouraging lens that won't further damage someone(s) already struggling.

Helping someone justify potato chips at five weeks out, Swedish fish at five days out, alcohol at three days out, etc. is not **MY** idea of compassion or kindness. It doesn't help them and it especially doesn't help others reading, researching, absorbing.

People choose to be be offended or read comments as judgmental around these parts when their bad choices are not coddled, high fived and justified. From me, judgement is not at all intended 99% of the time (true story!) but clearly I am NEVER going to be a warm and fuzzy person so some choose to read it that way.

Everyone has a different interpretation of support and we will never all agree in that RIGHT definition. Some like it soft and coddling, others like it straight forward and to the point. It's the internet. Take what you need and ignore the rest.

well said!!!

Sent from my iPhone using the BariatricPal App

[Diva Taunia 198]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why there's so much anger and vitriol instead of compassion and more understanding. None of us get to a place where we need surgery because we've made good choices or had 100% transparency or honesty with ourselves or with others. Sometimes there are issues that run a lot deeper with some folks than others. You just never know a person's background or story.

I also know from my own past (I'm almost nine years out) and many of my friends in the WLS community we all had experiences where when we first had surgery and were doing remarkably well, we felt invincible and full of conviction and top of the world with our choices and actions. It's easy to get to a place of high-ground when you feel that way, which is why I think it's important to remember that it doesn't always stay that way. There are always going to be times when you question others actions, and that's normal and fine. But remember, there are probably others doing the same to you. Extend the same kindness you'd want for yourself.

Being judgemental with each other NEVER helps. Support is not judgemental. Support is support. You're there through the good times and the bad listening, lending an ear, giving the best advice you can through a supportive and encouraging lens that won't further damage someone(s) already struggling.

I'm going to assume that since you chose to quote my post, that you're directing this at me.

Helping someone justify potato chips at five weeks out, Swedish fish at five days out, alcohol at three days out, etc. is not **MY** idea of compassion or kindness. It doesn't help them and it especially doesn't help others reading, researching, absorbing.

That's a pretty significant leap you've taken there and one that I am completely boggled by. So instead of anger and vitriol, the only other option is compassion that helps justify potato chips and swedish fish? That's ludicrous. It also helps no one out - ESPECIALLY new people navigating their way through their world just after a surgery, probably with a lot of negativity in their life already, to come to a place that's supposed to be supportive to find threads like these.

And for the record, nowhere did I suggest that anyone should be coddled/applauded/passified in any way for dangerous or foolish behaviors. I merely suggested that anger and vitriol is not useful. Compassion, understanding, extending kindness IS. That can be done without enabling or coddling someone. Are we really suggesting that it's NOT possible? That's it's really that black and white?

Compassion worked for the John F. Kennedy, Dalai Lama, Ghandi, Einstein, and a number of other amazing notable people in our history. None of whom coddled anyone, but all of whom saw the value in lifting their fellow man up instead of kicking them when they're down. Anyone can criticize, it's easy. I think Mother Theresa said it best: "I would rather make mistakes in kindness and compassion than work miracles in unkindness and hardness."

[PorkChopExpress 820]

Well...those people are where the cautionary tales come from. So in a way, their failure can help future patients. I met a guy in one of the support groups I went to prior to surgery who had RNY, he must have weighed over 500lbs. He went in for surgery, lost about 100 pounds over the first six months, but when he was healed up he decided to go back to drinking Coke. Then his pouch stretched out and he started eating crap again, thinking "Wow, the surgery helped me lose 100lbs and I could eat pretty much whatever." In short order, he regained the 100lbs and then some. He was back in another six month pre-op program to have a revision...this time, with the knowledge of what NOT to do. I took his story to heart, and I knew that if you don't go into this with your mind right, you are SCREWED.

I see a whole lot of that on this forum and others. Cautionary tales waiting to be written.

[rolosmom7 740]

Well...those people are where the cautionary tales come from. So in a way, their failure can help future patients. I met a guy in one of the support groups I went to prior to surgery who had RNY, he must have weighed over 500lbs. He went in for surgery, lost about 100 pounds over the first six months, but when he was healed up he decided to go back to drinking Coke. Then his pouch stretched out and he started eating crap again, thinking "Wow, the surgery helped me lose 100lbs and I could eat pretty much whatever." In short order, he regained the 100lbs and then some. He was back in another six month pre-op program to have a revision...this time, with the knowledge of what NOT to do. I took his story to heart, and I knew that if you don't go into this with your mind right, you are SCREWED.

I see a whole lot of that on this forum and others. Cautionary tales waiting to be written.

Yikes!!! The one unfavorable outcome my surgeon has had, the guy left the hospital and drove to McDs. Obviously, he wound up back at the hospital.

[blizair09 3,250]

Well...those people are where the cautionary tales come from. So in a way, their failure can help future patients. I met a guy in one of the support groups I went to prior to surgery who had RNY, he must have weighed over 500lbs. He went in for surgery, lost about 100 pounds over the first six months, but when he was healed up he decided to go back to drinking Coke. Then his pouch stretched out and he started eating crap again, thinking "Wow, the surgery helped me lose 100lbs and I could eat pretty much whatever." In short order, he regained the 100lbs and then some. He was back in another six month pre-op program to have a revision...this time, with the knowledge of what NOT to do. I took his story to heart, and I knew that if you don't go into this with your mind right, you are SCREWED.

I see a whole lot of that on this forum and others. Cautionary tales waiting to be written.

Exactly...

[LipstickLady 25,682]

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why there's so much anger and vitriol instead of compassion and more understanding. None of us get to a place where we need surgery because we've made good choices or had 100% transparency or honesty with ourselves or with others. Sometimes there are issues that run a lot deeper with some folks than others. You just never know a person's background or story.

I also know from my own past (I'm almost nine years out) and many of my friends in the WLS community we all had experiences where when we first had surgery and were doing remarkably well, we felt invincible and full of conviction and top of the world with our choices and actions. It's easy to get to a place of high-ground when you feel that way, which is why I think it's important to remember that it doesn't always stay that way. There are always going to be times when you question others actions, and that's normal and fine. But remember, there are probably others doing the same to you. Extend the same kindness you'd want for yourself.

Being judgemental with each other NEVER helps. Support is not judgemental. Support is support. You're there through the good times and the bad listening, lending an ear, giving the best advice you can through a supportive and encouraging lens that won't further damage someone(s) already struggling.

I'm going to assume that since you chose to quote my post, that you're directing this at me.

Helping someone justify potato chips at five weeks out, Swedish fish at five days out, alcohol at three days out, etc. is not **MY** idea of compassion or kindness. It doesn't help them and it especially doesn't help others reading, researching, absorbing.

That's a pretty significant leap you've taken there and one that I am completely boggled by. So instead of anger and vitriol, the only other option is compassion that helps justify potato chips and swedish fish? That's ludicrous. It also helps no one out - ESPECIALLY new people navigating their way through their world just after a surgery, probably with a lot of negativity in their life already, to come to a place that's supposed to be supportive to find threads like these.

And for the record, nowhere did I suggest that anyone should be coddled/applauded/passified in any way for dangerous or foolish behaviors. I merely suggested that anger and vitriol is not useful. Compassion, understanding, extending kindness IS. That can be done without enabling or coddling someone. Are we really suggesting that it's NOT possible? That's it's really that black and white?

Compassion worked for the John F. Kennedy, Dalai Lama, Ghandi, Einstein, and a number of other amazing notable people in our history. None of whom coddled anyone, but all of whom saw the value in lifting their fellow man up instead of kicking them when they're down. Anyone can criticize, it's easy. I think Mother Theresa said it best: "I would rather make mistakes in kindness and compassion than work miracles in unkindness and hardness."

Perhaps I'm missing the "anger and vitriol"? I think it really all depends on one's level of sensitivity. I'm personally not really one to get offended by a stranger's words on the internet, especially if and when I've specifically asked for opinions.

We all hear, speak and interpret differently. I'm not suggesting that there is only black and white at all. I'm merely suggesting that some people only see it that way (especially if they don't like what they're hearing) and there's not a whole lot **I** can do about it.

Some people respond really well to me, some don't. In turn, I don't respond well at all to those are overly warm and fuzzy. Again, we can't be everything to everybody.

Take what you can use and leave the rest.

[pixiesleeve 55]

I agree,..I'm 8 mo post op. I personally discovered my personal addiction to food when i started my pre liquid diet. I seriously didn't realize the magnitude of my addiction. I also didn't realize i was that huge!!! I recently held up my sz 28 shorts against my now sz 14 body and asked my husband.....why didn't u tell me i was this huge? He replied by saying. ..thats why i let u blow 18 thousand in 1 day. Lol.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using the BariatricPal App

[shedo82773 1,236]

This topic can be very disheartening because so many people really want and or need this WLS, and some are not going to do it for the real reasons. Yes, I do believe we are food addicts that is why we needed WLS. But...each to their own right!! We can't change people. It is very sad when I hear someone say I just couldn't do without this or that after going under the knife and just kind of throwing away their perfect opportunity to get healthy and thin. When I see someone that wants to change and doesn't have the means to do it hurts. But, then someone that doesn't follow their Dr's guidelines and gets sick or in trouble with their choice it is sad!! Another, one that really gets my goat is this...I had problems with strictures and it was not by any means because I didn't follow everything my Dr and Nutritionist had told me..then someone comes on and says her problems are of her own doing!! I got that one more than once!! If you don't know what that person went thru then keep your mouth shut. Because it isn't always that person's fault because she ate wrong. BLAH BLAH sorry.

[ShelterDog64 2,364]

@@Diva Taunia **Being judgemental with each other NEVER helps. Support is not judgemental. Support is support. You're there through the good times and the bad listening, lending an ear, giving the best advice you can through a supportive and encouraging lens that won't further damage someone(s) already struggling.**

Yep, which is why I'm VERY supportive in the regular forums. I seldom say much more than 'no, you should not do that'. But this is Rants and Raves, and I'm ranting and raving

[ShelterDog64 2,364]

@@shedo82773 Anyone who says strictures are of your own doing is an idiot, end of story.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

@@shedo82773 Anyone who says strictures are of your own doing is an idiot, end of story.

Agree. I have a slight stricture and I am one of those cloned humans who didn't "cheat".

[shedo82773 1,236]

ShelterDog64

Totally!! My Surgeon told me that they never know who will get them. It is how your body heals and if you are prone to scar tissue then that is why you get them. I had them within a month of my surgery. I ended up having 5 endoscopes with 4 dilations. My last one was Jan 2015. All is great now tho. But if my PRISSY POUCH even feels a little off I get that sinking feeling!! It isn't fun at all!!