DUMB question, especially this far out post-surgery...

[swizzle 120]

Okay BPers, please be gentle... but I'm really having a hard time with a very (likely) dumb question.

First off, I'm 6 months out from RNY and have lost an amazing nearly 80lbs, which is seriously mind blowing, and I'm in absolute heaven every day! But now that it's becoming easier to eat and there's not the same kind of restriction as there was in the earlier months, I'm really challenged by the 1/2 cup of food thing.... I can't eyeball it, I don't know whether that means 1/2 cup once chewed and in the pouch or 1/2 cup of whatever as it is (chicken vs spinach, for example, is dramatically different in volume when put into a 1/2 cup). My NUT told me to stay under 1000 daily calories at this point and 1/2 cup to 1 cup per meal, and while the calories have been no problem (usually average around 800-900) I still have no idea if I'm eating too much, as I really don't have that original restriction feeling until what seems to me like much more than a cup, even!

So, please dear friends, don't forget that age-old-adage: "there are no stupid questions" and share some advice! How do you measure your servings? Should I be worried that I'm stretching my pouch?

Thanks!

[Djmohr 6,965]

First.....it really is not a stupid question! Congratulations on your fantastic weight loss. I know how it changes a person and 2 years later i still cannot believe that i have lost 152lbs and am at goal.

I stopped measuring at the advice of my nut at around 8 months post op. She really wanted me to focus on eating slowly but within 30 minutes and listen to my body. There are signs that tell you that you are full.

For me, it is usually a sigh. And you need to pay attention to it because further down the road your body sort of gets used to things and you can overeat. I have done it and am miserable when i do. It usually happens when i eat too fast and my brain and tummy are not connected. If i eat slow. No problem.

The other thing my nut and bariatric rn told me that you have to think about that amount of food as already chewed and in your tummy. That is why you can eat more salad that dense Protein. If i eat dense Protein like steak or chicken i am lucky to get 3 ounces in but if i eat a Soup or salad i can eat a good 1 1/2 cups before i feel the restriction kick in.

[swizzle 120]

First.....it really is not a stupid question! Congratulations on your fantastic weight loss. I know how it changes a person and 2 years later i still cannot believe that i have lost 152lbs and am at goal.

I stopped measuring at the advice of my nut at around 8 months post op. She really wanted me to focus on eating slowly but within 30 minutes and listen to my body. There are signs that tell you that you are full.

For me, it is usually a sigh. And you need to pay attention to it because further down the road your body sort of gets used to things and you can overeat. I have done it and am miserable when i do. It usually happens when i eat too fast and my brain and tummy are not connected. If i eat slow. No problem.

The other thing my nut and bariatric rn told me that you have to think about that amount of food as already chewed and in your tummy. That is why you can eat more salad that dense Protein. If i eat dense Protein like steak or chicken i am lucky to get 3 ounces in but if i eat a Soup or salad i can eat a good 1 1/2 cups before i feel the restriction kick in.

Thanks so much! First for the positive reinforcement even though I'm still pretty confident I should have known the answer to this question by now

How do you usually plan your portions? I am a huge food logger and like to not waste food so I try to only prepare what I think I'll actually eat, so it's been tricky. And I still have no idea how one would measure what a 1/2 cup of chewed up food would look like :/

[James Marusek 5,244]

In general, I used measuring cups after surgery. Odd sizes cups such as 7/8 were hard to come by, so at times I used a fraction less than the required size such as a fraction less than 1 cup instead. Weight loss is achieved after RNY surgery through meal volume control. You begin at 2 ounces (1/4 cup) per meal and gradually over the next year and a half increase the volume to 1 cup per meal. So it is important that if you want to achieve the maximum weight loss that you comply with the program requirements. Meal size is a function of solids. Thus if you consume a Soup, the Water portion of the soup does not count against your meal volume. I found that chili and Soups went down easier than solid foods such as steak and chicken so I relied primarily on these for meals. It also allowed me to combine foods, so I could very accurately measure my total food volume. I would make up a pot of chili, put it in the fridge and eat many meals throughout the week. I included some of my recipes at the end of the following article. http://www.breadandbutterscience.com/Surgery.pdf

[swizzle 120]

In general, I used measuring cups after surgery. Odd sizes cups such as 7/8 were hard to come by, so at times I used a fraction less than the required size such as a fraction less than 1 cup instead. Weight loss is achieved after RNY surgery through meal volume control. You begin at 2 ounces (1/4 cup) per meal and gradually over the next year and a half increase the volume to 1 cup per meal. So it is important that if you want to achieve the maximum weight loss that you comply with the program requirements. Meal size is a function of solids. Thus if you consume a Soup, the Water portion of the soup does not count against your meal volume. I found that chili and Soups went down easier than solid foods such as steak and chicken so I relied primarily on these for meals. It also allowed me to combine foods, so I could very accurately measure my total food volume. I would make up a pot of chili, put it in the fridge and eat many meals throughout the week. I included some of my recipes at the end of the following article. http://www.breadandbutterscience.com/Surgery.pdf

Thanks so much for all the great info! I'll check out the recipes

Can I ask how you measure 1 cup of miscellaneous food like meat and greens and so on? This is my entire challenge, I just don't know exactly how to gauge the meal sizes, though I know the technical amount I "should" be eating (1/2 cup) ... So, for example, let's say you have a 2 ounce piece of chicken, 2 tablespoons of low sodium salsa, a tablespoon of reduced fat cheddar cheese shredded, some leafy greens, and a low carb small tortilla... how do I determine what "cup" size this is? This is a typical dinner for me, and it's usually around 250 calories with 32 grams of Protein... I know this is a good meal for me, and some days I can't finish the whole thing and others I absolutely can with no problems... This is where the worry comes in, since it together looks a whole hell of a lot bigger than 1/2 a cup... the greens alone are 1/4 cup, so I just feel lost at determining whether I'm eating the right portion size or if there's a chance I don't have the restriction I should (eg: stretched pouch). Does that make sense?

@Djmohr I'd love your opinion on this, since I always see your posts on here and you seem to be a wealth of bariatric knowledge!

Thanks guys!

[foreveryoung85 4]

In general, I used measuring cups after surgery. Odd sizes cups such as 7/8 were hard to come by, so at times I used a fraction less than the required size such as a fraction less than 1 cup instead. Weight loss is achieved after RNY surgery through meal volume control. You begin at 2 ounces (1/4 cup) per meal and gradually over the next year and a half increase the volume to 1 cup per meal. So it is important that if you want to achieve the maximum weight loss that you comply with the program requirements. Meal size is a function of solids. Thus if you consume a Soup, the Water portion of the soup does not count against your meal volume. I found that chili and Soups went down easier than solid foods such as steak and chicken so I relied primarily on these for meals. It also allowed me to combine foods, so I could very accurately measure my total food volume. I would make up a pot of chili, put it in the fridge and eat many meals throughout the week. I included some of my recipes at the end of the following article. http://www.breadandbutterscience.com/Surgery.pdf

Thanks so much for all the great info! I'll check out the recipes

Can I ask how you measure 1 cup of miscellaneous food like meat and greens and so on? This is my entire challenge, I just don't know exactly how to gauge the meal sizes, though I know the technical amount I "should" be eating (1/2 cup) ... So, for example, let's say you have a 2 ounce piece of chicken, 2 tablespoons of low sodium salsa, a tablespoon of reduced fat cheddar cheese shredded, some leafy greens, and a low carb small tortilla... how do I determine what "cup" size this is? This is a typical dinner for me, and it's usually around 250 calories with 32 grams of Protein... I know this is a good meal for me, and some days I can't finish the whole thing and others I absolutely can with no problems... This is where the worry comes in, since it together looks a whole hell of a lot bigger than 1/2 a cup... the greens alone are 1/4 cup, so I just feel lost at determining whether I'm eating the right portion size or if there's a chance I don't have the restriction I should (eg: stretched pouch). Does that make sense?

@Djmohr I'd love your opinion on this, since I always see your posts on here and you seem to be a wealth of bariatric knowledge!

Thanks guys!

I watched several informational videos on you tube made by a baraiatric surgeon and he says in his videos that the theory of stretching out your pouch is a myth. I'm not a Dr so I'm not sure if it's true but he claims that after the first 6-8 months after surgery, it's more about the quality of foods you eat then it is about the quantity. I can send you the video links if you're interested. I found them to be quite informational and his information definitely seemed to scientifically make sense. It definitely makes you think because i do believe alot of what we're told is misconstrued and miscommunicated. I think we have this idea that our pouch can just be stretched after eating a couple of meals that were too big for it, but it's definitely not that easy. He says in his videos that even looking at the stomach of people that gained almost all their weight back, their pouch size didnt change much in size at all...and by no means can our stomach go back to its original size...it would be almost impossible for that to happen. So, while i do understand your fears and can appreciate your concern with doing everything the right way, i wouldn't worry too much about exact measurements. As a matter of fact my weight loss clinic tells us that it's not even necessary to measure your food after awhile. You just need to focus more on listening to your body's full signal and put more attention on getting in good quality foods as opposed to empty calories that hold no nutritional value...as long as you're doing that...you'll be fine. Hope this helps.

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[swizzle 120]

@foreveryoung85 Thank you. That's exactly what I needed to hear. I need to chill out and continue following the program, and not worry so much about the exact measurements. Thank you!

[JulieNOLA 44]

My doc says when in doubt, eat nothing more than the size of the palm of your hand (not including fingers). That's what I used successfully with my band. Just converted to RNY last week, so still on liquids at present.

Also, always go with less and give your body time to feel full. Best of luck!

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[LisaMergs 2,854]

Kind of surprised at 6 months your restriction has lessened already? Maybe it's just me? I had RNY on March 23 and still no way I could exceed a 1/2 cup yet.

Based upon my guidelines, the longer we can keep that volume closer to 1/2c, the better, and we shouldn't think about pushing it up until at least a year out.

All that aside, I don't measure things like meat or fish. Simply because I still can not tolerate meats well at all- and when I have fish, I've become accustomed to eyeballing it. I've measured in the past enough to know what 3 oz looks like- and when I add a bite or two of veggies or fruit to it, I'm done. No help at all, but my suggestion would be to take your cooked Protein and get a good scale. Measure it after you've cooked it- and really LOOK at it. You need to know how to "eyeball" for times you are without a measuring cup or device.

I consider food measures "after cooked, before consumption"

I DO still measure out cottage cheese- that one is hard to eyeball- and yogurt always seems to come in 5 oz containers, so I typically leave the last couple of bites uneaten.

Good luck!

HW-282

SW/surgery March 23,2016 --272

CW-168

Lisa

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[GinaCampbell 434]

I too can judge by eye foods like chicken and beef. I can't eat much of it so I cook them in broth in the slow cooker and it makes them much easier to eat because they are soft and moist. I can only eat 3oz max of those foods.

I can't tolerate mash potato, etc. Carbs like that sit like lead in my sleeve. Same with bread, in fact all that sort of carbs give me issues.

So I eat carefully and mindfully. I hate waste so I make up portion sizes that you would give to a 3 year old.

I eat new foods only at home and only in teaspoonfuls.

It took me awhile to get my brain to prepare tiny portions. Or to batch freeze larger ones. Then to use side plates and judge by eye or scale small portions.

It's the same process as dieting pre op. The sleeve is a tool but it's your brain that should be the restriction mechanism.

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[swizzle 120]

@@LisaMergs Thanks for the good advice! I do generally weigh my food, and on average eat about 2.5-3 ounces of meat in a serving, but what I have trouble with is the 1/2 cup thing... that's where I should be, but how do you measure the following meal, for example, which is what I had for breakfast: 2 hard boiled eggs and 3 thin slices of nectarine... that's a pretty average meal size for me, but sometimes I can eat a little more, sometimes less. My MAIN challenge with all this 1/2 cup thing is this: volume is different than weight. So If I'm eating spinach and 2.5 oz chicken and a tablespoon of Beans, for example, if I have it on a plate, it looks a whole lot bigger than 1/2 a cup, and I bet if I measured it, it the spinach alone would be 1/4 cup, but I know the weight is less than 4 ounces, which seems about right for me... so that's where I'm getting confused, thus the stupidity of this post. haha @@LisaMergs , can I ask you what an average meal is like for you? We got RNY around the same time!!

But anyway, I think I'm going to just continue following the program and not worry so much that I'm overeating because I have lost all but my last 20lbs until goal (WHAT WHAT!?!) and I do make my Protein and Water and exercise goals daily, so I'm just going to follow @foreveryoung85 's excellent advice and just listen to my body and measure/eyeball the best I can without seriously worrying about the 1/2 cup thing.

Edited October 7, 2016 by swizzle

[GinaCampbell 434]

@@LisaMergs Thanks for the good advice! I do generally weigh my food, and on average eat about 2.5-3 ounces of meat in a serving, but what I have trouble with is the 1/2 cup thing... that's where I should be, but how do you measure the following meal, for example, which is what I had for breakfast: 2 hard boiled eggs and 3 thin slices of nectarine... that's a pretty average meal size for me, but sometimes I can eat a little more, sometimes less. My MAIN challenge with all this 1/2 cup thing is this: volume is different than weight. So If I'm eating spinach and 2.5 oz chicken and a tablespoon of Beans, for example, if I have it on a plate, it looks a whole lot bigger than 1/2 a cup, and I bet if I measured it, it the spinach alone would be 1/4 cup, but I know the weight is less than 4 ounces, which seems about right for me... so that's where I'm getting confused, thus the stupidity of this post. haha @@LisaMergs , can I ask you what an average meal is like for you? We got RNY around the same time!!

But anyway, I think I'm going to just continue following the program and not worry so much that I'm overeating because I have lost all but my last 20lbs until goal (WHAT WHAT!?!) and I do make my Protein and Water and exercise goals daily, so I'm just going to follow @foreveryoung85 's excellent advice and just listen to my body and measure/eyeball the best I can without seriously worrying about the 1/2 cup thing.

Wow! I can't even eat one hardboiled egg yet!

But surely you would just understand that the calorie count of that meal is acceptable and I imagine that if you diced those eggs and put them in a half cup measure, plus the nectarine, it would measure in volume to 1/2 cup?

And if you imagined your chicken and green bean meal chewed up, wouldn't that fit in 1/2 a cup measure?

That is a very strict way to live so I wouldn't worry.

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[LipstickLady 25,682]

It's pretty impossible logically to measure your food post chew but you are absolutely right to be confused on how to measure your food. A cup of popcorn does not equal a cup of chopped steak by any means.

I learned real fast to skip the cups and go straight for weight. I measure my food in ounces. It's much more reflective of my actual intake. At 3 years and 5 months post op, I am kind of far out and an "expert" on dieting, as I suspect most of us are, so I don't measure everything any more. I DO however measure out my portions for a few days every couple of weeks to keep myself on track.

It's funny how an eyeballed ounce turns into an ounce and a half and then two over time. Do your best most of the time and check yourself every so often just to make sure you aren't inflating your portions.

It's a good habit. IN MY OPINION.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Oh. And I don't measure things like spinach, broccoli, and other fibrous, non carby veggies because TO ME, they really don't count.

[Pazza 199]

Great advice here. Just wanted to say thanks.

@@James Marusek - thanks for the advice about Soup. I was searching about Soups and this answered my questions

@@swizzle & @@LisaMergs I'm about 6 months out too. I'm glad you started this topic. Way to go on your work and weightloss. All the best.

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