Please Read: Keep BariatricPal a Safe Place

[Alex Brecher 10,512]

I started the BariatricPal forums to create a safe place for everyone in the weight loss surgery community. It is for pre-op and post-op patients, for patients of all types of WLS, and for anyone who supports the WLS community. I want you to be able to come here for advice, encouragement, support, and information without worrying about being judged.

I have a zero-tolerance policy for rudeness, and you can see the guidelines in the Forum Rules.

Recently, there have been several instances of members being disrespectful or downright rude. Examples include:

• Stating or implying that a poster is doomed to failure or not ready for WLS because he or she asked a certain question or is engaged in a certain behavior.
• Telling people that your way is the only way, and any other way means the member deserves WLS failure.
• Discriminating against “newbies,” such as letting a newbie know that you don’t think he or she will succeed, or asking only “vets” to reply to a certain thread. (Reminder: you can always choose not to follow the advice of someone you deem unqualified to give it).

The vast majority of BariatricPal members do a phenomenal job making BariatricPal the warm, friendly community that I dreamed of when I started it. Thank you! Besides being sure to be polite and respectful, here are some additional ways to help.

If you see an offensive post, please consider the following.

• You do not need to respond. Instead of giving a rude answer and escalating the situation, you can simply choose not to answer.
• You can report the post by clicking on the “Report” option under the post. A forum moderator will look into the situation and may delete the post or ban the member if the member continues to post inappropriately.
• You can send the member a private message explaining that you felt the post was inappropriate, and explaining why. In many cases, you may be surprised that the member did not even realize he or she was being rude.

Please also think twice before you respond to any questions or other posts. It is possible that you could write a post that is genuinely meant to be helpful, but the person could accidentally interpret your post the wrong way. Try to remember that:

• It is very difficult to communicate a specific tone in writing. You may write something that you think is helpful and understanding, while someone reading it might take it as bossy or judgmental.
• Emoticons such as smiley faces can help.
• You can also add a sentence to explain that you are only offering a suggestion or sharing your own experience and that you are not trying to judge the OP.
• The OP might be in a vulnerable situation. They may be panicking about a worrisome symptom. They may be in turmoil about whether to get WLS. They may be freaking out about a stall. When they’re upset, it’s easier for them to misinterpret your well-meaning post.

Thank you for doing your best to keep the environment at BariatricPal positive, encouraging, and open. We all need a place to go for help and support, and I want the entire weight loss surgery to feel comfortable using BariatricPal for advice and encouragement.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

I am quite certain I don't have the ability to anticipate whether or how my posts will offend hundreds of posters and lurkers.

But I can solve that problem.

Best wishes, all.

[determinedtolive 134]

I am quite certain I don't have the ability to anticipate whether or how my posts will offend hundreds of posters and lurkers.

But I can solve that problem.

Best wishes, all.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using the BariatricPal App

[WLSResources/ClothingExch 3,444]

I say with near certainty that I have yet to see rudeness in response to bariatric questions, as you describe. The same holds for posts which might be interpreted as "You are doomed, you blithering fool." On many occasions I have observed intentional rudeness in topics of more general nature, the kind of rudeness and low quality seen in many websites; when asked "Why?," the authors usually reply, "Because I can." My point is that I must wonder whether BP's zero tolerance policy applies in the latter cases?

I don't use smiley faces for a couple of reasons which are irrelevant here. Correction: Once. A BP denizen sent a snippy note with a smiley and another that looks like a nasty smirk. (I've seen it on posts where, in context, it was more of a friendly or conspiratorial wink that fell short in its execution.) My casual response note included the same two faces as a little test. The recipient became doubly snippy, which told me that it had indeed been intended as a smirk.

"It is possible that you could write a post that is genuinely meant to be helpful, but the person could accidentally interpret your post the wrong way." -- There will always be someone who will misunderstand anything. Little can be done to accommodate the wide range of language and communication skills on hand.

[KelseyBennett_vsg 28]

I am quite certain I don't have the ability to anticipate whether or how my posts will offend hundreds of posters and lurkers.

But I can solve that problem.

Best wishes, all.

We love you, Ann! I know I'm just a newbie, but your posts have always been so insightful and helpful, you seem to be someone who really has their head on straight. I look forward to hearing much, much more from you!

Sent from my LG-H901 using the BariatricPal App

[LipstickLady 25,682]

Please also think twice before you respond to any questions or other posts. It is possible that you could write a post that is genuinely meant to be helpful, but the person could accidentally interpret your post the wrong way.

I am seriously puzzled on how one may be able to make sure that his/her every word is pleasing to every personality on this board without giving up his/her own personality in its entirety. Even then, words are often misconstrued because the reader is emotional/hangry/wants to hear something else/is from another country where words and phrases have different meaning than the person replying. It's also apparent that some people are ripe and ready to be offended because they don't like the person replying or were told that they should be offended when they weren't beforehand.

Perhaps instead of making a post like this, one that will only create MORE disharmony and dissension (and causing some of our most helpful people to leave), the offensive parties should be addressed directly. Posts like this **IN MY OPINION** are more harmful to the general sense of community because they justify AND INSPIRE unnecessary butt hurt and finger pointing.

Wow. I'm sad. It seems as if there is a trend of posts lately that are telling vets that their time here is done. I hear you loud and clear.

***Of course, this is just MY opinion and just a suggestion, not meant to offend anyone. It's just based on MY experiences as a forum moderator and board owner.***

[theantichick 2,204]

I don't know what prompted this message. I don't (can't) read all of the messages on this board, because there's just too many. But in what I have read, I haven't seen much that rises to the level of ugliness and disrespect held out here, especially from the "vets". I've seen a few personal clashes between vets spill over, but I would think things like that could be handled in private messages.

I fear that this message has and will continue to cost us some of our most experienced members on this board, ones who have been invaluable to me in my decision and preparing for my surgery. This saddens me, not only because I will miss their posts, but because I believe that the new people in the community will lose out.

My therapist asked me why I get so worked up about My Big Fat Fabulous Life, and the Healthy at Every Size movement's message that extreme obesity can be healthy. The answer is that I get worked up because it's putting wrong information out there, and it can harm people. I was an ER nurse, and provided patient education to a wide cross section of our population, and in my experience only a very small percentage of people are educated and well-read enough to be able to tell what information they are exposed to in media, specifically the internet and social media, is incorrect. Heck, I saw a meme the other day that jokingly advised people to put sugar in their auto gas tanks to keep the gas from freezing. And a few days later, news reports about people actually doing so. So when people on TLC are advocating extreme obesity as a "healthy choice" I get upset because people will believe it.

Likewise, I worry when I see topics broached on this board and advice that can be very harmful to newbies who don't have the experience or knowledge to judge the validity of the advice. Advice like there is absolutely no health concerns with e-cigarettes, or that drinking alcohol shortly after post-op is fine, or that eating solid food while still in the liquids restriction immediately post-op is just fine. I don't have the experience that some others do here, being pre-op, but I am a registered nurse, and I know that some of this information is dangerous. Yet when vets here or medically trained people like myself say - IN VERY MODERATE WAYS - that these are not really great ideas, we get trounced upon, and called bullies. Yet if we don't speak up, there will be people who will believe what they are reading that is just patently wrong.

All I know is that some very straight talk from people who had been through it is what I needed, and what I found here. And some of those very same people are exiting stage left because they're tired of being called out for being "mean" and censured for that same straight talk. Bariatric surgery is a huge and permanent step, and if all we're doing is validating every opinion no matter how dangerous or ill-informed, then I fear for the same newbies that this message is trying to "protect". Instead of assuming people are coming to this board as rational adults capable of processing critical feedback, it seems that we're to assume they are all fragile souls who we can't say anything negative to. I don't find that a flattering or helpful assumption.

Just my spare change, take it or leave it. No offense intended, just my opinion, and all that jazz.

[Alex Brecher 10,512]

I am quite certain I don't have the ability to anticipate whether or how my posts will offend hundreds of posters and lurkers.

But I can solve that problem.

Best wishes, all.

I'm not sure why you keep saying goodbye and are upset when I make posts about members behaving properly. Your presence on here is appreciated. My post wasn't targeted at you. Not sure why you'd think they were.

[justhere4theshow 462]

I am not sure why all the negativity seems to prevail here, and that people constantly say "well I'll just leave the group, then". Expecting respectful and civil behavior from adults is not unreasonable! No one should be treated poorly because they lack information or describe an experience that differs from another. I don't think being a "veteran" should be an excuse to be mean or condescending. It's not that hard to be supportive or simply ignore something that you find offensive or ignorant. If I have ever offended anyone with an insensitive remark, I readily accept responsibility for my comments and offer my apologies.

Just *another* opinion.

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,900]

Written communication can be easily misinterpreted since there are no vocal inflections or facial expressions.

Other times a person's response is as subtle as a sledgehammer so there is no misinterpretation.

Some people are practicing in behaviors which could be counter productive to a successful weight loss, weight maintenance or could have an impact on their health.

Coddling is not always the best answer but having compassion is important.

We all have read about behaviors here (ex. eating foods that are absolutely wrong for that early of a post WLS stage or drinking larger quantities of alcohol extremely early on) that could have dangerous consequences to their health. In those cases sometimes "tough love" gets the point home. If they knowingly are going against what their surgeon or every respectable published article says not to do, perhaps "tough love" is not the answer and some of "Darwin's theory" should be allowed to prevail. A few of those people complain the loudest to replies that don't condone their behaviors.

For the ones that are misinformed or were not provided detailed plans (although they can search on the internet for reputable sources of information by healthcare professionals or ask their surgeon's nurses) they are usually more accepting of the feedback.

In some cases the person replying is just an a$$hole and all they want to do is be cruel. I guess the block feature can come in handy when dealing with them.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

I am not sure why all the negativity seems to prevail here, and that people constantly say "well I'll just leave the group, then". Expecting respectful and civil behavior from adults is not unreasonable! No one should be treated poorly because they lack information or describe an experience that differs from another. I don't think being a "veteran" should be an excuse to be mean or condescending. It's not that hard to be supportive or simply ignore something that you find offensive or ignorant. If I have ever offended anyone with an insensitive remark, I readily accept responsibility for my comments and offer my apologies.

Just *another* opinion.

It has nothing to do with wanting special permission to be "disrespectful", "uncivil", to "treat people poorly", be "mean" or "condescending". It has EVERYTHING to do with the new trend of having to pussyfoot around these boards knowing that someone is GOING to be offended just because of who you are and those who are behind the scenes TELLING others to be offended because they don't like you.

I have no problem talking out a misunderstanding, clarifying a post or apologizing for offending someone if I do so. I do have a problem with adopting a fake warm fuzzy persona because some people are looking to be offended where no offense is there.

These boards are evolving into a place to be coddled and cossetted to, instead of place where one can give and receive solid advice. It's a shame.

Edit to add: This is MY OPINION. No one needs to read it or feel offended by it.

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,900]

I am not sure why all the negativity seems to prevail here, and that people constantly say "well I'll just leave the group, then". Expecting respectful and civil behavior from adults is not unreasonable! No one should be treated poorly because they lack information or describe an experience that differs from another. I don't think being a "veteran" should be an excuse to be mean or condescending. It's not that hard to be supportive or simply ignore something that you find offensive or ignorant. If I have ever offended anyone with an insensitive remark, I readily accept responsibility for my comments and offer my apologies.

Just *another* opinion.

It has nothing to do with wanting special permission to be "disrespectful", "uncivil", to "treat people poorly", be "mean" or "condescending". It has EVERYTHING to do with the new trend of having to pussyfoot around these boards knowing that someone is GOING to be offended just because of who you are and those who are behind the scenes TELLING others to be offended because they don't like you.

I have no problem talking out a misunderstanding, clarifying a post or apologizing for offending someone if I do so. I do have a problem with adopting a fake warm fuzzy persona because some people are looking to be offended where no offense is there.

These boards are evolving into a place to be coddled and cossetted to, instead of place where one can give and receive solid advice. It's a shame.

LipstickLady,

Stay true to yourself. I have ready many of your posts, they are written respectfully and honest, even sometimes with "tough love" because you are truly concerned.

I also read responses when someone was trying to rip you a new a$$, but you responded back to them in a respectful manner.

As far as "pussyfoot" goes, is that a birth defect? If so, man, I would love to sell women's shoes.

Edited July 31, 2016 by 4MRB4PHOTO

[LipstickLady 25,682]

LipstickLady,

Stay true to yourself. I have ready many of your posts, they are written respectfully and honest, even sometimes with "tough love" because you are truly concerned.

I also read responses when someone was trying to rip you a new a$$, but you responded back to them in a respectful manner.

As far as "pussyfoot" goes, is that a birth defect? If so, man, I would love to sell women's shoes.

This is why I like (most) men better than (most) women. They look at what's presented to them without adding a whole lot of interpretation and emotional connection. You gotta take words on an internet forum at face value instead of reading into every word spoken as a direct hit.

Sigh.

Staying true to myself is stepping away. Eventually these boards may revolve back into being a place where one can just be oneself but for now? Not so much.

You can come sell me shoes anytime.

[justhere4theshow 462]

There is a difference between a "Fake, warm fuzzy persona" and just being a mature, civil human being. How sad is the world where people can't be nice without being called fake. I simply expressed how silly I think it is that we can't seem to make this work without people getting pissed and "leaving" every other day.

[KristenLe 5,979]

I am not sure why all the negativity seems to prevail here, and that people constantly say "well I'll just leave the group, then". Expecting respectful and civil behavior from adults is not unreasonable! No one should be treated poorly because they lack information or describe an experience that differs from another. I don't think being a "veteran" should be an excuse to be mean or condescending. It's not that hard to be supportive or simply ignore something that you find offensive or ignorant. If I have ever offended anyone with an insensitive remark, I readily accept responsibility for my comments and offer my apologies.

Just *another* opinion.

Many of the rude, mean and nasty posts are not from vets. Why are we making this out to be an Us vs Them situation?! I'm disappointed that we are going to lose the valuable information of many on this forum because others take every comment they don't agree with (some not even directed at them) as "mean" or "bullying". As already said - text is often misread (with inflection and emotions) that may not be intended by the poster.

Edited July 31, 2016 by KristenLe