Conflicting Information From Doctors/Patients And My Fears

Hey Man · April 25, 2016

Since you don't know me you don't have the context for my remark. I was over 300# had sleeve in Dec 2011 and have been maintaining 150# loss for some years now. I don't actually believe you have to give up those things permanently. My personal experience and some observations of others is you've got to be pretty "all in" to make your goal and get well established in maintenance. If you aren't pretty committed, regain is a real possibility. I eat some junky food too, but during weight loss and during establishing maintenance I was careful. Now years later I remain diligent. I felt like for me, I had to be at the point that saving my life is way more important than(fill in the blank) food.< /p>

So the real question is. .. is getting to a healthy weight more or less important than buffalo wings and diet soda? I am not saying you can never have them again...but if you had to choose between a healthy weight and crappy food - which would it be?

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The answer is a healthy weight, but I don't think that one has to make such a choice. Yes, at 450 pounds - I am too far gone, but there are millions and millions of people at healthy weights that enjoy buffalo wings for example and maintain that healthy weight through proper eating, moderation on "bad" foods and exercise. I want to be one of those people eventually.

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Thank you for the info. What do you still sometimes eat that you consider junk food?

The interesting thing is a chicken wing really isn't unhealthy food per se. Fried and breaded sure. But I really wouldn't call a baked chicken wing or drumstick for that matter to be anywhere in the world of junk food compared to what you would get at a fast food joint. I want to eat chicken on a bone with some zero sugar hot sauce.

Am I completely unreasonable here?

OutsideMatchInside · April 25, 2016

I already told you that you can eat chicken wings and even gave you a zero carb recipe to do it. They taste exactly like fried except they aren't.

No one is saying you can't have a piece of cake at a party. The thing is after surgery, a lot of people find they aren't even interested in that cake.

If you really change your habits your entire attitude about food changes.

Hey Man · April 25, 2016

I already told you that you can eat chicken wings and even gave you a zero carb recipe to do it. They taste exactly like fried except they aren't.

No one is saying you can't have a piece of cake at a party. The thing is after surgery, a lot of people find they aren't even interested in that cake.

If you really change your habits your entire attitude about food changes.

I hope I lose such interest and all my worries and concerns are for nothing.

Tomorrow is my orientation, so I will let you know how that goes.

Kindle · April 25, 2016

You keep talking about eating just a tiny sliver of cake or having just 1 or 2 Cookies. You can't do that now, so what makes you think you can do it after surgery without serious psychological intervention? After your initial honeymoon period, and barring certain sensitivities like Valentina has, you WILL physically be able to eat a boatload of Cookies and cake and pretty much unlimited ice cream. You will be able to eat 20-30 wings or a whole pizza....it just may take you all day. Your sleeve won't stop you, so what's your plan for limiting your portions then?

THIS is the important question you should be asking and preparing for, not whether or not you can drink soda and eat wings in moderation. You've already stated you wouldn't have surgery if you can't eat your favorite things anymore. What's your plan B if you can't? Will you be miserable and regretful for the rest of your life?

What everyone has been trying to tell you is that you have to be much more mentally ready to commit to change EVERYTHING about how you see food if you want surgery to be successful. You will be doing most of the work, not your sleeve. You may not have to change everything, but you have to be WILLING to do so before proceeding with surgery.

Babbs · April 25, 2016

I really think he's asking the right questions. Like I said before, there have been people who put more thought into buying a car.

I had the same concerns. It just took me actually having the surgery to finally see the light.

Some "get it", some don't and never will. For the latter, the results of the surgery will sadly be only temporary.

4MRB4PHOTO · April 25, 2016

That's why I chose my sleeve with the factory alloy surgical staples, leather interior, anti-lock brakes and cruise control.

Kindle · April 25, 2016

Actually my VSG was my new car. My insurance didn't cover WLS so I used every penny I'd saved for a down payment on a new truck to pay for surgery instead. And I'm still driving my skinny little butt around in my 18 year old rust bucket.

4MRB4PHOTO · April 25, 2016

Actually my VSG was my new car. My insurance didn't cover WLS so I used every penny I'd saved for a down payment on a new truck to pay for surgery instead. And I'm still driving my skinny little butt around in my 18 year old rust bucket.

And I would bet that you would do the same all over again if given the chance.

Material assets mean nothing compared to our health.

Besides, your stomach isn't going to depreciate each year.

Maybe with the money you save with less health related medical issues and lower food costs, you can save up for a deposit on a slightly newer truck?

Driving a rusty truck on the pavement side of the road is better than being on the dirt side.

Inner Surfer Girl · April 25, 2016

@@Hey Man

Losing weight is such a SMALL part of WLS. It's actually the EASY part.

We get very short sighted as newly sleeved or bypassed patients. It's all about the scale, how fast we are losing, stressing about stalls or small fluctuations in out weight. But the main thing we should be focusing on is how we can change our eating habits enough to keep the weight we lost off and live a healthy, happy life.

At almost 2 years out, I can eat SO MUCH MORE than I could even a year out. I find myself over eating frequently, and have to actually force myself to weigh and measure most of the time to prevent it. I feel almost like I didn't have surgery at times. ESPECIALLY when it comes to snacking. I have to be very mindful.

This is the reason I am choosing to eat edamame instead of chips for a snack, or eat a chocolate Greek yogurt as opposed to a cookie or two or three (because that's what it will end up being)

I couldn't utilize moderation before surgery, so what makes me think it will work for me now that I feel like I can eat almost normal amounts of food? It won't. If I did a cookie here and a few chips there, I guarantee it won't stop there because I don't have my precious restriction and lack of hunger to count on anymore. That leads to weight gain. Ask anyone who has gained weight back, they will be the first ones to admit it.

Like I said, it's not the amount of food that makes us successful, it's ultimately what we choose to eat that does when the honeymoon is over.

But as part of our new eating habits - shouldn't we learn and understand moderation? Shouldn't we learn to be able to have a handful of chips or a cookie or two and that's satisfying enough?
Are we really changing our food habits by simply avoiding foods. Sooner or later, we are going to be invited to a birthday party for example and I think it's important that we learn to have a small sliver of cake and be satisfied with that as opposed to what we would have normally eaten at a birthday party or Christmas dinner or whatever.

If this works for you - great. But wouldn't you like to have your cake and eat it too so speak. Be able to treat yourself once in a while and be satisfied with a paper thin slice as opposed to half of the cake. Do you really think eating a cookie or two will result into you eating 30 Cookies at one time or do you think that you can probably stop at 2 Cookies, because you are happy with the weight you have lost?

I guess I just have a big problem wrapping my head around avoiding foods out of fear. I want to eat healthier, but I also want to learn how to eat in moderation.

It is so hard to communicate the difference between pre-op and post-op life. I am glad to see you are trying to understand, but in a lot of ways it is a leap of faith.

You want reassurance that you can "have your cake and eat it too". I can't give you that assurance. I can just share my experience.

My first birthday party after surgery was my nephews'. I sat next to a birthday cake and did not want it. I didn't even want a sliver. If I had eaten a sliver out of politeness, I might have gotten sick, I might have awakened the sugar addiction and wanted more or, I might have been satisfied with that one small piece. I do not know. But, the miracle was that I didn't care to try.

I am one year out. I don't fear food. But, I have chosen to be picky. I choose quality over quantity. If I eat bread or starches or sugars, it better be the best: one slice of toasted fresh baked whole grain bread once in a blue moon is one example.

I highly recommend that you keep reading, keep asking questions, and keep examining your relationship with food. This is a process. None of us, your wife included, can make this decision for you.

Have you talked with a counselor or therapist? They can be a great resource.

Have you attended any bariatric support group meetings?

Have you considered exploring a 12-step recover group like OA (OA.org)?

Have you read books about food addiction, etc.?

A couple of books I recommend are: Eat it Up! by Connie Stapleton and When Food is Love by Geneen Roth.

Journaling is also a great way to process this decision.

It was a long process, but I went from 150% against this surgery with many of the same questions that you have to ready and eager to do it along with any of the "sacrifices" it entails.

I was a healthy fat person until I wasn't: almost 600 pounds, disabled, practically bedbound, and without hope.

A year after my sleeve surgery I am over half-way to goal and am getting my life back. I haven't eaten birthday cake since before surgery and I don't miss it, but I get to look forward to many more birthday parties and my own birthdays which I am thrilled about.

Christinamo7 · April 25, 2016

@[

I guess I just have a big problem wrapping my head around avoiding foods out of fear. I want to eat healthier, but I also want to learn how to eat in moderation.

For me the thing is, what I used to think was "moderation" was *really* more food than my body needs. it is actually SHOCKING how little food we need to maintain at any weight. And so, as I go forward - 2 Cookies or wings or whatever occasionally - maybe. but I can get a lot more bang out of my (calorie) buck with other types of food.

I think you've been given yes, but you may not want to as the most reliable answer. only you know if a longer healthier life is worth it or if you are satisfied with your life as it is.

sgc · April 25, 2016

You keep talking about eating just a tiny sliver of cake or having just 1 or 2 Cookies. You can't do that now, so what makes you think you can do it after surgery without serious psychological intervention? After your initial honeymoon period, and barring certain sensitivities like Valentina has, you WILL physically be able to eat a boatload of Cookies and cake and pretty much unlimited ice cream. You will be able to eat 20-30 wings or a whole pizza....it just may take you all day. Your sleeve won't stop you, so what's your plan for limiting your portions then?

THIS is the important question you should be asking and preparing for, not whether or not you can drink soda and eat wings in moderation. You've already stated you wouldn't have surgery if you can't eat your favorite things anymore. What's your plan B if you can't? Will you be miserable and regretful for the rest of your life?

What everyone has been trying to tell you is that you have to be much more mentally ready to commit to change EVERYTHING about how you see food if you want surgery to be successful. You will be doing most of the work, not your sleeve. You may not have to change everything, but you have to be WILLING to do so before proceeding with surgery.

What are the advantages to getting surgery if after a year you will basically be back to where you were?

OutsideMatchInside · April 25, 2016

@@sgc

You aren't back where you were.

The thing that people have to understand is once you are healed, basically after 6 months. If you have the free time and the dedication you can sit all day and eat. If you choose to eat slider foods, you can eat tons of it. Lots of cake, Cookies and ice cream. The sleeve limits your portions but with dedication you can still over eat, and people who are binge eaters and don't resolve that before surgery will still be binge eaters. Surgery won't fix you, you have to fix you.

If you have learned to eat properly, you won't do that, you will focus on Protein.

If you don't do the mental work, you will be a sleeve failure. Just look on youtube and you will find plenty.

lissybug33 · April 25, 2016

I have been a Diet Coke-a-Holich for 20 years. I really love the burn of the fizz. But that is my vice my "drug of choice" My health, my happiness, and my future is what really mattered to me when making my decision. I didn't like Water but I learned to. I tried the Mio orange cream and that was tolerable. I gave up my Diet Coke on Valentine's Day with my surgery scheduled for 04/20/16. With the exception on one the week before surgery, I knew I couldn't go back. It's better if I stay completely away. I know people that have had it after WLS but again, I can't go back. I think it's just your perspective and what you want more. Good luck. It's a huge decision.

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Heather I · April 25, 2016

Just my two cents reading these posts, and I haven't been sleeved yet (hoping June!) but what I'm hearing, respectfully, is you are trying to cut a deal or bargain your way into having surgery, but still eating the foods you love. I don't think at 400 lbs you (or any of us on here,) are good at "moderation." I've been reading for MONTHS on this site, and very few people can eat "just a few" of any trigger foods and leave it alone. There is a VERY long thread about weight regained that is both depressing and informative. I honestly think you should read all 150+pages of posts and analyze what people are saying.

Honestly, your wife seems to be playing with fire, in my opinion. You say she's able to eat larger portions than you have been told was possible and having some "fun" foods that were perhaps trigger foods for her. She's still newly sleeved. Weight regain is very possible for her in the years to come.

I can't have an open bag of chips around the house. Unopened on a shelf, fine. They stay left alone. Opened, forget it -- done. I love crunch. A sleeve of crackers can be scarfed with a brick of cheese in an instant.

Take your time and hold off on surgery. I think you'll get to the point of needing and wanting it, but maybe not just yet.

But, honestly, take a real look at the next plate of wings you are eating. Analyze if you actually love the taste of all X amount you have as a portion. So much of what we "love" loses its luster after we have gorged ourselves on it, but there is the mental food addiction that is at play that keeps us stuffing our faces.

Just my two cents, but I think it's scary how quickly 400 lbs and "healthy fat" can turn into busted knees, hips, ankles, bed bound, incapacitated, out of work, and blowing up to 500+ lbs with no option of burning it off.

And, lastly, I think you are misinformed that there are skinny people out there who eat fatty foods in moderation. I have think friends, and they are not neurotic about their food, but they choose to eat those things MAYBE 1x a year. They self-monitor their intake and try to eat healthy 95% of the time to allow for treats -- which is what we should be doing.

Over half the U.S. is obese, and diabetes is an epidemic. Skinny people aren't eating all the wings, pizza, beer, and chips. Honestly, it's almost hard to FIND thin people. Look around you at the grocery store, airports, etc. I would say I see 85% of the population is overweight. Look at how many scooters Walmart has for overweight people. It's a lot!

Take the time you need to get the food craving you love out of your system and hold off. I think you're going to be miserable after surgery -- at least right now.