Conflicting Information From Doctors/Patients And My Fears

[Hey Man 30]

By the way, I found this video to be informative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5nm1GXqrm4

[kmorri 1,689]

I am certainly no veteran post surgery guru ......I've not even had my surgery yet! I'm still a few weeks away. But I can tell you what made me decide that this life changing surgery was for me.....and first I'll say "life changing"....is the first thing I had to get my head around.....this is for life, this isn't just a diet I'm going on.

Several things regarding my quality of life made me make this decision....

• I started wearing slip on shoes....(because it became way too hard to tie them)
• I actually get winded taking a shower and drying off afterwards
• I have to always get a shopping cart when I go into a store even if I'm only getting one thing....(it's basically my walker)
• The seat belts on airplanes stop fitting me! Now I just tuck it under my shirt and pray the flight attendants don't notice...(I would be mortified)!
• I sat in one of the chairs in the airport and realized I barely fit in the chair!
• I have great difficulty getting in my husband's truck
• Heck I even have difficulty getting in my own bed now....I know it hasn't gotten any higher but it sure is more difficult to climb in it now!

I could probably continue to list things all night long. I'm very lucky and don't have any serous medical conditions. However, I feel like I'm on the verge of having something really bad happen to me if I don't do something now!............But back to what I want. Basically getting rid of or greatly improving all those things I've listed is much more important to me than being able to continue to eat the things that got me in this condition in the first place........and I really really love food too! In fact there probably aren't very many fat folks around that don't love food....but you know what? I'm willing to have most of my stomach removed so all these bad things I've mention can get better........

My surgeon said something that really stuck with me during my initial seminar when I first started this journey. He said, "Obesity makes EVERYTHING worse" All the good food in the world is just not worth it to me.....I want me back!!

[Hey Man 30]

Let me clarify that I don't think this is just a diet and that it is for life. Having said that, for life shouldn't mean that you can't have a hamburger or some pizza for the next 50 years until you die or enjoy things in moderation.

That's the problem with most obese people - they didn't enjoy food in moderation or once in a while. They enjoyed bad food in excess and on a daily basis from the moment they got up to the moment they went to bed.

If we all just had a Big Mac or pizza once in a while, but ate healthy the rest of the time and worked out, we wouldn't need to have surgery to help us lose weight.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Hey Man

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

First, I second what others have said: Everyone's post-op sleeve experiences / capabilities are NOT identical.

My own experiences include these:

* I had a perfect surgery with no complications and recovered easily.

* I've never thrown up post-op. Not once.

* I did have gall bladder surgery a month post-WLS, but recovered fast and well from that, too.

* I've lost 100 pounds and been maintaining well for nearly a year on 1700 - 1800 calories/day (and 90-100 grams of Protein a day).

* I do NOT drink carbonated drinks -- I did so during one long road trip, and the resulting stomach acidity (not the soda's bubbles) made me sick as a dog for a week thereafter. So I don't do that anymore.

* Sugar makes me crave more sugar -- so although I do indulge sometimes, I ration it carefully.

* Yes, I do eat pizza -- about once a month. But only 1-2 small slices.

* I now drink a 5-ounce glass of wine OR 1.5 ounces of scotch most nights (didn't have anything alcoholic for 6 months post-op).

* I have tracked my food using My Fitness Pal since 2.5 months prior to WLS. I think it's the best tool you could use in addition to WLS to understand your relationship with food and to help you plan the most nutritious menus you could possibly eat.

You should consider these things as well:

* I wouldn't be where I am if I hadn't changed not only how much I eat, but WHAT I eat. I do not eat "normally." I eat healthy foods 90% of the time. I thought I knew a lot about nutrition pre-op, but I know so much more two years later! And I use that information daily to make much better food choices than I used to make.

* I am not a binge eater -- but it sure sounds like you are. I recommend that you seek therapy with someone who deals with bariatric patients to help you overcome that eating disorder, because BED will put the weight back on you even with a sleeve. Want evidence of that? Keep reading here. The sleeve will NOT fix a binge-eating disorder.

* If you and your wife in the past were BED codependency food addicts together, the strong potential to reignite that relationship is still there. I would suggest you both address these issues with a therapist as well.

* The sleeve is only one of many tools (behaviors) you will probably need to be successful long-term. The speed with which you eat will have to be addressed. Your daily activity level and exercise are critical to long-term success. For many people drinking their calories is a huge barrier to success.

* Two of the biggest negative behaviors of those for whom WLS doesn't result in weight loss / long-term maintenance are (1) grazing (nibbling on food all day long) and (2) eating "slider foods" (highly processed, high-carb foods) that don't stay in the stomach long and slide quickly down into the intestine. I could give you a long list of slider foods (cookies, chips, ice cream, crackers), but many slider foods can be purchased in fast-food restaurants.

Good luck to you. You're doing the right thing -- learning more about the sleeve and your personal challenges. If you go the WLS route, don't expect the surgery to fix all your issues. It will not.

[Christinamo7 4,042]

I have no health issues. Essentially I am healthy for a fat guy and that is what my doctor has told me, but it WILL eventually catch up to me. I don't drink or smoke, so that probably has a lot to do with it.

I don't have a problem with giving up for a while - it's the forever that I have a problem with.

part of what it came down to for me is the chances of loosing the weight and keeping it off are slim to none. might you be that one person that gets the lucky straw? maybe. not likely. I don't recommend you have surgery if you are not ready or don't want to - but if you do loose the weight without it and keep it off for 5 years, buy a lottery ticket too. It's just not likely to happen.

and, different surgeons have different plans. My NUT and doctors office favor a very balanced diet, some carbs daily but focused on Protein, veg and fruits. I have had a hamburger sans bun, and will probably have that today when we grill. I had no problems with it. when I am at goal might I have it with bun sometimes? yes, probably if I have room for it or want it. I had a slice of thin crust pizza this week. it was ok, it was convenient way to feed the family that particular evening. When we went hiking last weekend and It took the kids for an ice cream cone I got one too, I had burned a LOT of calories that day. I had room for about three bites - it was lovely, and my one daughter finished it. no problems, and my weight loss is right on track. I haven't tried wine yet, and don't plan to for 6 months to a year. if I don't care for it anymore I will either use my collection for cooking or some friends will get fabulous Christmas presents in years to come. I just wanted to finally loose the weight.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Christinamo7

[kmorri 1,689]

Let me clarify that I don't think this is just a diet and that it is for life. Having said that, for life shouldn't mean that you can't have a hamburger or some pizza for the next 50 years until you die or enjoy things in moderation.

That's the problem with most obese people - they didn't enjoy food in moderation or once in a while. They enjoyed bad food in excess and on a daily basis from the moment they got up to the moment they went to bed.

If we all just had a Big Mac or pizza once in a while, but ate healthy the rest of the time and worked out, we wouldn't need to have surgery to help us lose weight.

For myself I know though previous diet attempts, even with all the best of intentions, introducing all those types of foods back into my diet is always my down fall.........and unfortunately during surgery they don't operate on your brain to change that part. So I'm going into it with the belief that I can not having those things after surgery.

But basically I think for the most part the answer to your question regarding "can" you still eat those things in moderation, is yes.......but like the saying goes, just because you can doesn't mean you should. I think most responses are trying to say long term post op you can have most anything, but nothing has been changed in you by the surgery that will help you resist getting into the same bad habits......For me the best and I believe only, defense is to not have those foods apart of my post surgery diet.

[Kindle 8,667]

I am definitely on the moderation band wagon. I eat pizza and wings and drink alcohol and have cake and Bagels and ice cream cones in the summer. I eat crap from convenience stores and fast food places. But I do so in moderation while eating healthy, bariatric friendly food 80% of the time. Too much sugar or fried food or alcohol or coffee will give me gastritis and carbonation is impossible.

But I didn't do any of these things until I was under my goal weight. And although I don't track or count or measure my food I am mindful of what I do eat and how it affects my weight. I get 60-80g of Protein everyday, at least 80oz of fluids, I take my daily Vitamins and I have my bloodwork checked regularly. If I pop even one pound above my bounce range I go back to strict Protein and veggies or even the preop liquid diet until I am back down.

You should also know that after a years or two your restriction will lessen and you will not be able to rely on your sleeve for Portion Control. Anyone can learn how to eat around their sleeve and if you don't address and change your eating habits early on then you WILL regain. You will likely have a harder time than your wife because of her malabsorption I have a couple friends that have had bypass and if I ate like they do I would be right back where I started.

There are many ways to be successful after WLS..... VSGAnn and I are nearly identical in our starting weights/heights, final goal weight and maintenance success. But the details of our success are different in a lot of ways. And I'm sure there are a hundred other versions of success out there. But there are also a hundred ways to fail. There are common denominators in the successes and failures, and only you can figure out what works for you if you decide to have surgery. In the end, postop life is about choices, not rules.

[JupiterinVirgo 846]

My weight loss journey has definitely shown me very clearly that much of the advice offered by Western medical professionals after sleeve surgery is outdated by at least 20 years, much of that is based on initial studies that were not connected to other studies over a long period of time. That is, their data is incomplete and not integrated with other data, newer data, and data that comes from other areas, including nutritional and food-based approaches that are well documented, well used, and well studied from all over the world that lead to not only the balance of weight, but the balance of all systems in the physical body with the use of food, supplements and other holistic approaches that take into account the individual body, not just some overgeneralized partial study taken 30 years ago. The most powerful and simple advice from my experience, is to attuned to what your personal body needs, and not blindly follow the bariatric gospel, which is very very outdated.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

@@JupiterinVirgo ... OK, I'll bite. What, specifically, is this "outdated bariatric gospel" we should be scorning?

What, specifically, do you think we should be doing instead?

[Babbs 14,681]

There is conflicting information because Everyone is different, and there is no real answer to your questions....for you. You have no way of knowing how your body will react to surgery until you're there.

My experience has been, yes, I can eat spicy good just fine. No I can't drink carbonation. It's not that I'm not supposed to, it's that I CANT. the bubbles have nowhere to go so more than a sip or two is painful. And no, I never lost a strand of hair. Didn't take any supplements, just got in all my Protein and Water and never stressed about it. But you have no control over it. It's just gonna happen it not.

I guess you just have to ask yourself if you want to be thinner and healthier even if you can't drink soda or eat spicy food or if you go bald. My answer was yes. If your answer is no then perhaps surgery is not for you, cause you can't take it back. Besides, surgery alone will not make you successful. It's not JUST about Portion Control. There are a lot of lifestyle and diet changes you must commit to....forever.....or the surgery will be a waste of time and money.

What she said ^^^^

I find it a little disheartening when people think they don't have to change their eating habits just because they can eat less. This thinking is why over 50% of people gain some or all of their weight back. The hardest part of this whole process is realizing our love affair with food really has to end. It really has to turn into more of a respect for food by understanding what we eat can either make us or break us. Mindful eating, not eating less, is they key to our success. Understanding that is half the battle.

[Babbs 14,681]

@@JupiterinVirgo

With all due respect, get back to us in 5-10 years when you successfully have lost all your weight and kept it off.

Then, and only then, will I take credence into anything you say.

[ocgirl15 667]

I can only give you my experience and of course follow your doctors plan. I had acid reflux that could have been managed by diet if I had just a little will power. I had issues of Portion Control and sometimes making bad food choices. I wasn't addicted to food general and rarely had issues with binge eating. Two things I was addicted to were coffee and Diet Coke. I don't tolerate either now.... But I never had any business drinking them in the first place.... They were the number one cause of my reflux. Other than being over joyed by weight loss I am so happy that having that surgery helped me kick these habits. I weened myself off slowly before surgery since I remember how horrible It felt going cold turkey felt during my pregnancies. A headache for two weeks. I don't miss carbonation..... I said I loved the bubbles before but it was a caffeine addiction pure and simple. In other words I don't tolerate carbonation.

I love love love buffalo wings. They are my favorite food. I have them a couple times a month starting at about 3 months out. I can eat about two. Now spicy food can cause reflux so I have several hours before it is time to sleep and take a PPI (needed that before surgery too). My tolerance to spicy is exactly the same as before surgery and limit eating it only because of my pre existing reflux.

Reflux and sleeve discussions are numerous so for the record my reflux improved with surgery because I make better food and drink choices. I know that is not the case with everyone.

[4MRB4PHOTO 3,900]

There is no guarantee that you won't be one of the few people that can not eat spicy food or bread post surgery.

That is a small risk to take vs being obese and all of the potential health issues that can come with it.

Look at all of the positive aspects of your life that can happen: better health, living longer, more NSVs than you can shake a stick at, comorbidities that are significantly reduced or go away, etc..

Using straws or drinking carbonated diet beverages is a heated debate.

The only time I use a straw is on infrequent occasions when I buy a diet fountain beverage from a convenience store.

I do drink diet carbonated beverages without problems. Even my surgeon and his head nurse both think that carbonated diet drinks (when appropriate to drink, post WLS) stretching your sleeve is a myth. But out of fairness, they prefer Water as the beverage of choice. Also, diet sodas can be acidic and may contain caffeine.

My hair did thin a little post WLS, but I never had any issues with significant Hair loss and don't have a problem now.

WLS is only a tool. We need to commit to a lifestyle change to make them very successful.

Edited April 24, 2016 by 4MRB4PHOTO

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

So the real question is. .. is getting to a healthy weight more or less important than buffalo wings and diet soda? I am not saying you can never have them again...but if you had to choose between a healthy weight and crappy food - which would it be?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using the BariatricPal App

[Inner Surfer Girl 12,015]

I agree. You have already received some great feedback. I will just add a bit about my experience.

I had a serious Diet Coke/diet soda addiction pre-op. Now, I truly believe it was one of the main dieting behaviors that at the very least aggravated my obesity.

I didn't really believe I could give up the caffeine/carbonation. I had done so in the past for a short time but ultimately, at the first sign of stress, jumped right back on the addiction with a vengeance.

I committed to trying to warn myself off of carbonation and caffeine pre-op to see if I could even do it.

I slowly weaned myself off of carbonation, then caffeine, over a summer. It worked. The good news! Is that I am over a year post-op and don't miss either. I have very little caffeine (an occasional cup of green or other stronger tea is my limit).

I have no desire to even try carbonation.

I drink a lot of Water, enhanced Water (Mio drops, crystal light, etc.), infused water, Decaf tea, v8, etc.

You may surprise yourself about what you can and can't do and more importantly, that some things you can do you really won't have a desire to do.

This surgery is a tool, but it is a powerful tool that for me does so much more than restrict volume. It has helped me retrain my palate and practice new, healthy habits.