male only Does your lady feel safe? (what do women want?)

[OKCPirate 5,323]

When was the last time you were scared for your physical safety? I mean really scared? Middle school? In the military? Most women are scared everyday. You didn't probably realize this because you never thought to ask. They get scared in parking garages, walking to the car at night. I never made that connection. I used to get mad when my ex would wake me up to investigate a noise she thought she heard at night, but at least now I understand it.

That's why security is soooo very important to women. I have read a large number of books and articles trying to understand women. Most are sappy, and are opinions based on some observations or feelings, but I never felt that there was any hard science behind it. And look women are complex. Freud never understood women. Neither did Einstein. I mean really:

• Why do they have to go the bathroom in packs?
• Why do they shop the way they do?
• Why do they keep getting upset when they tell you a problem and you try to solve it?
• Why does she need to be held?

I just finished Dr. John Gottman's book: The Man's Guide to Women: Scientifically Proven Secrets from the "Love Lab" About What Women Really Want - https://goo.gl/x5hTjI. (for full disclosure, I don't read books, I listen to them while doing chores and exercising. This was a good and entertaining listen).

I'm not saying that you will understand everything the women in your life are doing, but thanks to the insights from the Gotman Lab, at least you will be able to understand the differences between you and her. This isn't a "blame the hormones" book, but it does explain just how profound the impact is. This one is a nice mix of humor, science, medicine and serious behavioral research to give you some clues as to what is going on, and how you can make the woman in your life happier.

We men are easy. What do we want? Less bitching, more sex. If you can break her code, you will get it. You will live longer and better in a solid relationship, so invest in yourself. My divorce cost me over well over six figures (and worth every damn penny), but my current relationship is one that I want to last. I think I picked up some good ideas to help make it grow.

If you are not in a relationship, there are some good tips on how to start one. There are good ideas on how to really seduce your woman. Some nice salacious tips on how to have an even better time in the bedroom.

In short, dang good book. If anyone has read it, I'd appreciate hearing some of your takeaways. This may not be a long thread, but if you do read it, feel free to post your thoughts.

(Note to lady lurkers: Feel free to chime in on this one. Because this book isn't a "blame" book, you might really enjoy it too.

[needtorecover 574]

Thanks for inviting ladies to chime in!

I can attest to being scared all the time. It sucks. Being a woman means you're always wearing a target. Men make me feel unsafe, especially in large groups or when they're obviously drunk. I cross streets to avoid men who are talking loudly or shouting at each other. I'm always scared in parking garages. I'm scared when I walk alone at night. Sometimes I ask for an escort when I leave the grocery store after 11 pm because there are always men hanging out in the parking lot and I don't know what they're going to do to me.

I've been grabbed before. I've been cat-called. I've had men get too close and touch me inappropriately. And I'm not even that particularly noticeable, just a plain fat woman but I'm STILL a target.

I don't like feeling this way because there are plenty of good, decent men out there. The majority are good, in fact, and I know that. But when a man asks me for help or talks to me when I'm alone and no one else is around I get really uncomfortable and try to back away.

Part of it's also the sensationalizing of kidnappings, murders, and domestic violence towards women. You read these horrible stories about men kidnapping girls and women and doing awful things to them. I read stories about boyfriends, uncles, husbands, fathers stomping on babies or beating them to death while the mother helplessly watches. It makes my skin crawl.

Then there are the pedophiles. 9.5/10 times they are men. I'm very wary of unknown men around my baby.

Maybe not all women feel this way, but I do - I've had some bad experiences that have made me learn to always be defensive. I'm glad I'm raising a little boy so I can send another good man out into society who will make the women in his life feel safe with him.

[Sharon1964 2,530]

I haven't read it yet, but I will.

Wayyyyy back in my twenties, there were six of us playing a board game, I think it was called "Scruples". It involved a situation and a "what would you do?" response.

I distinctly remember this question - you see a person walking toward a strip mall toting what looks like a large, heavy laundry bag. You know the Laundromat at the strip mall is closed. What do you do?

All of the men said they would stop and tell the person, and maybe even give them a ride home.

All of the women said, "well............" and the men jumped our collect sh*t. We had to explain to them that women (in general) think about our safety all the time. Did the person look homeless? Were they talking to themselves? Was it a big scary looking person? Was the sack dry or could it be holding a body in pieces? Was there a blood trail?? Was the person walking with young children or were they alone?

The men were just flabbergasted. They said how do you go through life always being afraid? And we explained that it was more "on alert" than always afraid.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

I love Gottman's research. I think it's spot on. Spoiler alert: If you treat your partner like shit, the relationship won't last.

But I had no idea he'd written a lay book. Interesting ....

[Christinamo7 4,042]

I wouldn't say I'm ever afraid exactly - but I do try to be smart about situations where safety is an issue.

However. married almost 20 years this time. I was married 9 years to my first husband.

why this works is because he always lets me be the girl in the relationship - and I kind of think that's the bottom line of what you posted. He could have used this book in the early days. :-)

[Airstream88 361]

I generally don't feel vulnerable day to day. I try not to put myself in situations that would make me a target and I'm cautious walking alone at night and will ask for an escort if I feel uncomfortable. Two incidents still stand out in my mind.

The first incident was when I was walking alone late a night across my college campus after leaving the computer center (back before the internet, home computers and cell phones). I was literally the only person around and I felt very vulnerable.

The other happened when I was waiting in line to have my emissions tested. One of the workers came up to my car, stuck his head partially in the window and made some lewd comments and sexual suggestions. There was a car in front of me and one behind me and I remember feeling scared and trapped even though people were around and he obviously wouldn't do me harm.

[OKCPirate 5,323]

Wow ladies, I really had no idea, but I'm starting to get an idea.

One interesting study was the effect having a man you trust hold you and the effect on pain. In the experiment, they monitored her pain response to a small electric charge on her ankle. Pain was worse when by herself, slight comfort from a stranger holding her hand, but almost no pain when holding the hand of their significant other. They believe it is from the release of oxicotine in the brain. And that is why it is so important for guys to hold their women when they are upset. It is an amazingly powerful medicine without negative side effects.

[Christinamo7 4,042]

Wow ladies, I really had no idea, but I'm starting to get an idea.

One interesting study was the effect having a man you trust hold you and the effect on pain. In the experiment, they monitored her pain response to a small electric charge on her ankle. Pain was worse when by herself, slight comfort from a stranger holding her hand, but almost no pain when holding the hand of their significant other. They believe it is from the release of oxicotine in the brain. And that is why it is so important for guys to hold their women when they are upset. It is an amazingly powerful medicine without negative side effects.

as I tell him, even if you are the one who made me mad or hurt my feelings, you need to hold me. it just helps. :-) He's getting there. The most important thing to me is I know he would never let anyone hurt me. He won't let anyone talk to me badly. He would do anything he had to do to protect me.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

@@OKCPirate ... you're right!

I'm not much of a scaredy cat. But my favorite thing in the whole world is to be in the same room sitting next to or near my husband. We don't have to talk or even touch. Just being together makes me feel completely happy and secure, free of any anxiety or worries.

This is all about the production and effects of oxytocin, the famous "love hormone," responsible for pair-bonding, empathy and trust, maternal instincts, etc. Men also generate oxytocin. (BTW, oxytocin is different from the pain medication, oxycontin.) It's one helluva drug:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin

I move that the military industrial complex start producing oxytocin bombs to replace all the world's nuclear bombs with.

[mngreeneyes 674]

@@OKCPirate - See, this is why I Love you! You are so self aware. Do you have sisters? Most guys with your level of awareness, IME, have sisters.

This is all a part of the male privilege that we hear so much about lately, especially white male privilege. Not dogging guys here, but there are things that cannot be understood completely without having lived and this is one of them. Somehow there seems to be a large number, not all but a large number of men who believe that it is there right to comment and/or touch women's bodies because they are a man and we are women. This can go either way for saying nice things about a woman's body or negative things. The problem isn't the comments themselves, but the "right" and ownership the comments infer. Somehow it is a man's right to comment and a woman's responsibility to appreciate it. Those kinds of situations are a HUGE part of creating our fear. We tend to be smaller, which puts us at more risk especially to groups of men, but the fear of physical assaults isn't necessarily what we are concerned about. When someone feels like they have the right to comment on your body, or order you to smile, or touch you, it means that you are not in control of your own body. That is terrifying and you never know for sure where that person will stop. For some men, a comment is just a prelude to other things, especially if they get upset because you do not react the way they want you to based on their comment. It is amazing how fast what could be an innocent comment can turn ugly. This is what terrifies us. We never know if it will stop at just a comment, which is mostly harmless. Its the fear of what might happen next. Many of us would just rather be invisible than risk the attention of someone who feels they have the right to our bodies just because he is a male and we are females.

Please take this is the spirit in which it is given. I, in no way, mean all guys, but because of many guys, we have to be wary of all guys since you can't tell by looking at someone if they are a threat or have any boundaries and if you are not on guard, it will be too late when you realize you found one of the many guys with out respect for our rights to our own bodies.

Thank you OKCPirate for calling attention to this topic. Its a tough one to explain and understand.

pam

[Heather I 500]

I've worked in the legal/court field for 20+years and have seen and heard sooooooo much rape and molestation against women and children, so I'm very attuned to it.

I DO feel so much better with my husband nearby. He's 6'4" and looks pretty badass. I'm no teeny-weenie at 5'8" and overweight, but still, I've had the creepy catcalls and had a gross guy rub up on my randomly at a street parade, been groped and grabbed at bars trying to get through a crowded room, actually been chased to be robbed/who knows across a city street in broad daylight -- it's freaking scary!

I have gone to jail cells and sat next to rapists and molesters to take down their testimony, stayed late at courthouses and walked to my car when defendants out on bail notice me walking to my car, and been heartbroken hearing other women's stories of abuse, rape, and violence. I worry about my friend's super petite daughter who is 4'10" and about 90 lbs, who looks like she's about 14 when she's 23.

Now I have a beautiful little blond haired, blue eyed baby girl who is 2.5 and lovely. My husband and I are paranoid for her (and her brother.)

I had a late hearing for police officers to cover, and my car was broken into -- surrounded by cruisers. I'm definitely more situationally aware of my surroundings and very grateful to be working from home now. Less exposure to the crazies out there.

I've worked in the legal/court field for 20+years and have seen and heard sooooooo much rape and molestation against women and children, so I'm very attuned to it.

I DO feel so much better with my husband nearby. He's 6'4" and looks pretty badass. I'm no teeny-weenie at 5'8" and overweight, but still, I've had the creepy catcalls and had a gross guy rub up on my randomly at a street parade, been groped and grabbed at bars trying to get through a crowded room, actually been chased to be robbed/who knows across a city street in broad daylight -- it's freaking scary!

I have gone to jail cells and sat next to rapists and molesters to take down their testimony, stayed late at courthouses and walked to my car when defendants out on bail notice me walking to my car, and been heartbroken hearing other women's stories of abuse, rape, and violence. I worry about my friend's super petite daughter who is 4'10" and about 90 lbs, who looks like she's about 14 when she's 23.

Now I have a beautiful little blond haired, blue eyed baby girl who is 2.5 and lovely. My husband and I are paranoid for her (and her brother.)

I had a late hearing for police officers to cover, and my car was broken into -- surrounded by cruisers. I'm definitely more situationally aware of my surroundings and very grateful to be working from home now. Less exposure to the crazies out there.

I've worked in the legal/court field for 20+years and have seen and heard sooooooo much rape and molestation against women and children, so I'm very attuned to it.

I DO feel so much better with my husband nearby. He's 6'4" and looks pretty badass. I'm no teeny-weenie at 5'8" and overweight, but still, I've had the creepy catcalls and had a gross guy rub up on my randomly at a street parade, been groped and grabbed at bars trying to get through a crowded room, actually been chased to be robbed/who knows across a city street in broad daylight -- it's freaking scary!

I have gone to jail cells and sat next to rapists and molesters to take down their testimony, stayed late at courthouses and walked to my car when defendants out on bail notice me walking to my car, and been heartbroken hearing other women's stories of abuse, rape, and violence. I worry about my friend's super petite daughter who is 4'10" and about 90 lbs, who looks like she's about 14 when she's 23.

Now I have a beautiful little blond haired, blue eyed baby girl who is 2.5 and lovely. My husband and I are paranoid for her (and her brother.)

I had a late hearing for police officers to cover, and my car was broken into -- surrounded by cruisers. I'm definitely more situationally aware of my surroundings and very grateful to be working from home now. Less exposure to the crazies out there.

[Heather I 500]

Ugh, freaking site pasted my reply like a zillion times. Sorry!

[OKCPirate 5,323]

@@mngreeneyes - Pam, yes I have two sisters, but in all honesty, I was not aware of how much fear/concern/angst women felt on a near daily basis until Gotman wrote on it. It explains a great deal. On the other side of the coin, I hope you ladies will start to realize how little understanding guys have about where you are coming from. There isn't a class on this, and if I hadn't stumbled upon this book, I may have lived my entire life without grasping the concept. Thanks for sharing.

[mngreeneyes 674]

@@OKCPirate - I just wish more men were open to learning about this instead of trying to tell us that its all in our heads. Sorry. My own dad and brothers do this to me. I am just being female and emotional. It can't possibly be as bad as I say. They are classic "mansplainers". Although there are some women who may be into the drama, I am not one of them and the vast majority of us just want to be left alone and believed when we try to explain. Hint for guys, listen to us when we try to explain our experiences. Engage ears and brain and disengage mouth. You can't fix it, but you can understand our concerns and help us feel safe. Telling us we are being too sensitive does not make us feel safe, even with you.

OKCPirate - You have one lucky girlfriend. Someday I hope to find me someone as self-actualized as you!

pam

[OKCPirate 5,323]

Ugh, freaking site pasted my reply like a zillion times. Sorry!

Yep, and there is a freak out moment, and this calls from hug from bad ass hubby

But keep in mind, guys don't get as concerned as your sex. For good or ill, we just don't. So while we may empathize and comfort (or at least we should), we just feel the fear you do. I wonder why they didn't teach this to me when I was an MP? Oh, yeah, that's when no one wanted to admit men and women are different (that does not mean unequal, just different). No wonder chivalry is NOT dead. It's important.