So confused-Weighing less=less protein?

[ssflbelle 829]

I am confused and hope the veterans can explain things better than the Dr did. However before I ask my questions I think you need some history. I weighed 352 pounds when I had my first consultation and we agreed on an ideal weight of 155. I was put on a 6 month pre-op diet which consisted of 3 meals a day and trying to get in 60 to 100 grams of Protein. I lost 37 pounds. I had my surgery Jan 26th and was told that starting at 3 weeks post-op I should be getting in a total of 60 to 80 grams of protein in 1 to 3 meals. I mainly had 2 meals where I could eat maybe 1 1/2 oz of protein food before I got a terrible pain. I was told by the surgeon the pain was my tummy telling me it was full. Therefore I was still drinking at least 2 to 3 Protein shakes and Soups. So most days I got 60 to 80 grams of protein.

So that takes us to today's 1 month post op visit with the surgeon. I do not have a NUT.He has been telling me everything I should and shouldn't be eating since the consultation. I lost another 23 pounds. For a total of 60 pounds since the first consultation. The surgeon claims since the first consultation I have lost 30% of my Excess Body Weight. He says now that I am that much thinner I only need 41 grams of protein a day and need to eat 3 meals only and stop drinking so many shakes and soups. However I can have 1 shake as one of my meals.

This is where I am confused as everything I have read over the last 7 months says 60 to 100 grams of protein.

Questions:

1. Was your protein reduced once you started to lose weight? If not, what grams were you eating at 1 month post-op?

2. I thought eating less than 60 grams would cause problems with my muscles and hair etc?

3. How can I get the 41 grams of protein down when I physically can't eat but 1 1/2 oz of protein food at a meal?

Even if I have 1 Protein Shake as a Meal Replacement that still leaves 11 grams of protein food in 2 meals. A half a cup of yogurt which is about all I can eat would only give me maybe 6 grams of protein.

4. What would you do, eat only the 41 grams of protein the Dr says to eat or would you continue to eat 60 or more?

5. Would you continue to drink more than 1 protein shake or Soup a day?

I don't want to mess up and gain weight but I don't want to become sick either because I am not taking in what seems to be the higher amount of protein that others are eating. Please help me figure out what to do.

Thanks everyone!

[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

I'm not telling you to ignore your Dr but...

You have less fat to muscle right now. It doesn't make sense to lower your Protein, you are trying to keep the muscle you have and hopefully add some. Also as a larger person, you have more muscle mass than most people just from carry that weight around, you probably need more Protein than most people, like in the 100g per day range.

You calculate your protein needs based on your lean muscle mass, not your total weight.

Your body doesn't absorb much more than 20 grams of protein at a time. So all these doctors that think people can get all their protein in 3 meals are making like harder on their patients. My Dr even told me not to over do it on protein at one time. Your body will just waste it. Most people need to eat 4-5 times a day to meet their protein needs. Eating planned and measured meals to meet your protein goals is not grazing. Which is what most doctors are trying to discourage by say no Snacks.

I have a protein shake most days, just to save on calories and to prevent me from skipping Breakfast. I just don't feel like eating in the morning most days, so a Protein Shake is perfect. I don't have to have a protein shake, I can eat enough to meet my protein goals but I like having a protein shake. It is something I did for years before surgery so I don't see a need to change. The only thing about protein shakes is you want to make sure you are drinking the right kind, low carb, 5g of less of sugar, and at least 20g or protein. As long as you are drinking a high quality shake, there shouldn't be an issue.

Edited February 26, 2016 by OutsideMatchInside

[perforce 243]

Protein needs are simple to work out, just take your weight in kg, then multiply by 0.8

For example, I weigh 244lb, which is 110.7kg. (2.2lbs to the kg)

110.7 x 0.8 = 88.56g Protein a day.

Sent from my SM-G900H using the BariatricPal App

Edited February 26, 2016 by perforce

[AvaFern 3,516]

Protein needs are generally based on weight, like the other person commented. I would not however agree with your doctor that at a month out you need to be reducing your Protein that much. If you were now at goal weight, then sure, protein differences that significant are fine, however this is the time you should be getting your protein and as long as you are within your calorie limits and you are getting a lot of protein, then I say stick with your current plan.

As a note, I never got my full protein requirements, because I was self-pay so there was no real diet information provided. I've been at goal for 11 months now and surgery was 2.5 years ago. If you just eat normally and get the suggested amount of protein for your diet, you should not be losing hair. The point of eating so much protein is that it fills you up faster and keeps you full longer than if you ate the same amount in carbs. Also, it tends to have less fat, which is also better for you.

[2goldengirl 2,076]

The short answer is yes, you do have a reduced need for Protein (and other macronutrients) as you lose weight, just like you need fewer calories at this weight than when you started.

My RD bases my Protein needs on my ideal weight.

Remember that your ability to eat, and tolerance for things you can eat, will change over time. Yes, you may need a shake or two now, but the goal will be to get most of your nutrition from real food. One argument against protein shakes and supplements is that real foods contain micronutrients that the manufactured foods can't.

One reason protein is pushed postop is that all food is made up of three macronutiriets: protein, carbohydrate, and fat. Protein is stressed because fat is generally not well tolerated in the first few months postop, and carbohydrate can lead to cravings - and it's way too simple to get our hands on simple carbs that won't provide us with enough nutrition to dust a fiddle with. Protein fills us up, and keeps us filled up.

As far as hair loss is concerned, my own theory is that Hair loss can be the byproduct of insufficient fat and micronutrients in the immediate postop period, but an RD, so it's just my guess.

[OutsideMatchInside 10,166]

Her current weight is 291, which is higher than the start weight of most of the people posting in this thread.

There is no way in hell 40g of Protein a day is enough for her. She is a month out, she should be working to increase calories not lower them. I seriously doubt she is anywhere around 1000 calories a day right now.

[Inner Surfer Girl 12,015]

According to my surgeon, my Protein target is for life. It is not reduced when I lose weight.

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

i think you are wise to question this. Life experience has taught me that not all surgeons are experts on nutrition. When I was banded in 2001 I had no idea the importance of Protein and fell into the slider ( ie carbs) trap as it was easier to eat.

It was very interesting, i weigh about 153 right now, and a friend is a dietician. She has not advised me on eating, but in casual conversation she told me that with my muscular build, I should be aiming for 80-100g of protien to maintain that muscle mass (which helps with maintenance). Another data point, I did a body fat analysis. the woman doing is a bodybuilder. She was way heavier than me, but smaller. she told me, I should have at least 100g a day along with a strength routine if I wanted to decrease body fat and increase lean muscle mass.

I was sleeved 4 years ago, and was in the 300s. I believe that the higher Protein target and low to moderate carb has helped me tremendously. Also, I was instructed to have 5 "mini meals" per day. I wound up settling on 4, but the idea was to eat "small" - stop before being "full".... eat to absence of hunger. Keeping portions small without grazing all day, it is a fine balance but if you can strike it you manage your hunger and keep that feeling of restriction for the long haul.

i always tell people to listen to your surgeon - you pay him for his expertise - but this advice does not match my personal experience.

[ssflbelle 829]

Thank You everyone for your thoughts on this issue. As I said from everything I have read 41 grams didn't seem right to me. When I questioned it the reply being that your thinner now just didn't seem right to me either. During last week's support group they introduced a new staff member a Dietitian. However they are still working out the insurance details and her schedule. She was not there today. Perhaps when I get to the 6 week stage and I can eat a bit more I will call her and ask about this 41 grams. Until then I feel like I shouldn't listen to the Dr and just continue with at least 1 shake and try for 60 to 80 grams of Protein.If I see a gain then maybe make an adjustment.

Outsidematchinginside thank you and you are 100% correct. I am only at about 400 to 600 calories 57 to 80 Protein depending on how many shakes I have had each day. Only physically being able to eat 1 1/2 oz of meat protein and maybe 1/8 to 1/4 cup of Beans isn't going to give me a lot of calories. I am getting more calories with the shakes and Soups.< /p>

perforce thanks for the protein amount info. I had no idea how it was figured. Based on what your saying if my math is correct I should be trying to get 106 grams of protein. Wow what a difference from what the surgeon is saying.

[stacyrg1 90]

I did not decrease my Protein goal as I lost weight. Rather, my goal increased. I fluctuate between 127-133 right now and my protein goal is between 99-100g a day. I can actually meet it rather easily with food and not supplements but I eat multiple smaller meals per day and always eat protein first. You need the protein to maintain muscle mass and I would be wary of following a diet plan that aimed for less than 70g a day (and this is just me, but I would consider that really low). Good luck!

[stacyrg1 90]

Oops that should 90-100g a day. 99-100 would just be stupid!

[Kindle 8,667]

I increased my Protein intake as I lost weight, too. I was shooting for 60g in the beginning and even that was a struggle because I could eat so little. But as my restriction lessened and my calories increased, I increased them with more Protein, then fat, and still keep my carbs low.

I'm over two years out, maintaining below goal and get 80-100g protein/day. I have great muscle mass and tone, and I had absolutely no hairloss. I also eat 5-7 meals/snacks a day. There's no way I could get in enough nutrition only eating 3 times/day.

BTW, I started at 238 and am now 140. So basically 1/2 your size and getting twice as much protein as your surgeon is recommending. No, his postop diet plan doesnt make sense to me.

[BarrySue 602]

Okay, coming in here to again dispute the claim that people can’t absorb more than 20g of Protein per sitting. That is NOT TRUE and it has been debunked countless times. It is one of the many myths perpetuated by some fitness/bodybuilding groups. Your body utilizes nearly ALL macronutrients (unless you have a medical condition or specific health problem). Your body will typically only utilize 20-30g of Protein for muscle synthesis, but protein has many other vital functions and there is no such thing as “wasting” it. It will all be absorbed gradually throughout your digestive tract. Our bodies would be terribly inefficient if we couldn’t process such an important substance throughout human history, where 95% of humanity lived in a state of feast/famine. Vitamins and other micronutrients can be filtered out in urine once a specific level is reached, but NOT protein. Fewer high-protein meals have been confirmed as more effective in study after study (rather than many more 20g or less protein meals).

I know everyone has their own experiences and their own unique path to success, but please be careful repeating false information.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-much-protein-can-the-body-absorb/

http://www.livestrong.com/article/487366-how-many-grams-of-protein-can-body-absorb-in-one-sitting/

http://www.menshealth.com/fitness/how-much-protein-can-the-body-absorb-in-one-meal

http://www.renegadeworkouts.com/the-body-can-only-absorb-20-grams-of-protein-per-meal-where-do-i-even-begin/ (tons of links to credible studies in this one)

Edited February 27, 2016 by BarrySue

[BigViffer 3,544]

@@BarrySue - thank you for posting that. You just saved me from a lot of typing! Honestly don't know why that myth won't die.

Sent from my phone, please forgive brevity and misspelling

[Kindle 8,667]

@@BarrySue thank you. The examples you posted actually support the favt that the body has a limited capacity for utilizing the amino acids from Protein for muscle synthesis.....

"Protein beyond what your body needs to replenish its amino acid pool (or can put to use for muscle building) is metabolized into glucose and used for energy. And whenever you have more food energy than you need, the surplus is stored as fat. Nothing is wasted"

So no, the Protein you eat isn't "wasted", but if you consume too much too fast, it's no different than eating fats or carbs. Essentially only a certain amount of the protein you eat over a certain period of time can be utilized as a muscle building block. The excess is burned for energy or stored as fat. In other words, you shouldnt consume more than 10-20g protein/Hr or you might as well be eating candy bars. Your links actually support this theory.