Health Care is not as bad as some may think

[lindaa 1]

Green,

We can all cite a study or anecdotal evidence about some remote individual or group that seems to support a theory. The bottom line is that 1. There is a huge number of people wanting/needing health care due to life style choices, and 2. We live in a society where there is an entitlement mentality. These two factors will bankrupt any health care system that fails to hold people accountable. We need to stoop blaming someone or something else for our problems. We need to stop expecting that someone else will take care of us, and take responsibility for our own self-induced health care issues.

I realize that to you this seems harsh and uncaring. I am not about kicking people into the streets (again, remember I do work in a free clinic for heaven's sake), but I'm just not convinced that it is the government's responsibility to provide free health care.

[ELENATION 0]

Very good point, the problem is that in theory it sounds wonderful! but in reality it wouldn't work propery, it would put a burden on the government and the service will have to therefore be poor.....

[green 6]

Universal health care is not free health care. The cost is covered in the tax structure. It is simply cheaper because big business is edited out of the equation and it does allow medical personnel more options when treating their patients as they are not constrained by the dollar and cents factor which the business enviroment will inevitably impose.

It seems to me that the poor are covered by free clinics paid for by your tax system and the rich can pay for whatever they want with respect to their medical treatment. It is the middle class and the working class who are vulnerable to the high costs of private medical coverage and to being dropped by these same insurers when the costs of treating their illnesses become unattractive for their insurers. This is what we read about your system of health care.

I am inclined to agree with you that we do live in a society of entitlement; these days it certainly seems that everyone likes to think of themselves as a victim. This is quite different from the attitude of my parents, people who survived the Second World War and who believed in standing up on your own hind two feet and dealing with the world with dignity and humour.

Nevertheless, I am one of those people who do find the results of research and, yes, even anecdotal evidence to be of value when attempting to gain a better understanding of a situation.

I wonder whether you have become hardened because of the people whom you see daily in your free clinic. I suspect that you are seeing the very poor and these people are much less likely or even capable of taking the same care of themselves in the same way that the better educated and more affluent folks are. For one thing it takes a certain amount of stability, cash, and education to eat healthily, to cut out those carbs and eat fresh vegetables and quality Protein, to feel hopeful enough about yourself and your life to want to give up alcohol, drugs, and smokes, to join a gym, take up jogging, to have any sort of motivation or interest at all in fact. If this is the case, then you are seeing people at less than their best and this is bound to leave you feeling cynical. I have met cops who suffer from much the same thing; they spend much of their waking lives dealing with people who are behaving badly....

[Lucy 0]

I'm confused....How does Lucy's comment reflect bigoted thinking?

Carlene, you read my mind. Only I didn't ask because I am quite sure the source of the "bigot" comment lacks the ability to reason or argue with substantial evidence.

Of course I'm not a bigot, but it's easier to call me one than to have an actual conversation.

[green 6]

Very good point, the problem is that in theory it sounds wonderful! but in reality it wouldn't work propery, it would put a burden on the government and the service will have to therefore be poor.....

Not true, universal health care works well in the many advanced post-industrial economies which have it. You may wish to examine the health care systems of western Europe....

[Carlene 12]

Hi Charlene, Most states, including the one in which I live have very good health insurance for children and disabled individuals. One example that comes to mind was a recently widowed young mother whose husband had declined to purchase health insurance for his family believing that "someone" would take care of him or his family if they became sick. Shortly after his tragic death, one of the kids fell and broke her arm. First the mom signed up for the state administered plan which as a single mom she now qualified for, and then took the child to the ER.

Boy....that's some system! In Texas, you sign up for Medicaid and then wait several weeks for an appointment. Then you spend ALL DAY waiting to see a caseworker, only to be told you need more documentation. Getting a second appointment takes at least another month. If you successfully manage to jump thru all the hoops, you might get a Medicaid card for your kids after 3 months or so. And 6 months later, you have to re-qualify all over again.

Just being a single mom won't get you squat in Texas. In fact, it can create insurmountable problems. The recent homicide/suicide in which a young woman hanged herself and her daughters in Ft Worth is a sad, but true, example. She was denied Medicaid because her husband was supposed to be paying her child support and those funds (which she was not receiving) were counted as income, making her ineligible for Medicaid.

[DerickM 1]

A bigot (in modern usage) is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own

Lucys comment:

Let me know how things work out for you when you're holed up in a cabin in the woods with your stash of canned food, bottled Water, and ammunition.

A bigoted statement, it is insulting and infers that I am a militant republican.

Please note, I was attempting to have a conversation but repeated attacks will cause retaliation in kind, I can flame war with the best if that is what is wished.

[green 6]

My experience of medicine is very different. A few years ago I had to see my family doc every 2 weeks for a period of some months. I would make an appointment, see her, and then would sometimes be sent to the on-site lab for blood tests. No money changed hands. I have been sent by her to various specialists for various tests for various reasons over the recent years and now I see a psychiatrist because I am a depressive. No money ever changes hands for any of these services. I have had bone scans, X-rays, colonoscopies, mamograms, and ultrasounds, and no money changes hands. I had a bunion removed 5 years ago and that was free to me.

The document which permits me access to all of this is my Ontario Health Plan Card, a card which looks much like a credit card.

Now it is true that if I were to turn up in the emergency intake at any hospital I might have to wait awhile depending on the nature and the severity of my problem. They practice the triage system in these joints and attend to the critical patients first. I was sent to Emergency twice by my company, once for having run my thumb into a bandsaw blade and once for giving myself second-degree burns on my right hand. :help: I had to wait a little; they prefer to deal with heart attacks and strokes first, eh. Luckily there were no gunshot victims in either time.

[Lucy 0]

A bigot (in modern usage) is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own

Lucys comment:

A bigoted statement, it is insulting and infers that I am a militant republican.

Please note, I was attempting to have a conversation but repeated attacks will cause retaliation in kind, I can flame war with the best if that is what is wished.

My statment was a reaction to your statement of

"I do not care, about any of those 13 million people. My heart does not bleed for everyone else like yours. I will stick to worrying about my family first and foremost, thank you very much."

My point was that postmodern people are generally dependent upon one another for survival. Since you don't care about the well-being of others, it is logical to assume you wouldn't want anyone caring about your well-being. Should you choose to separate yourself from the infrastructure of humanity, you will likely be holed up in a cabin in the woods.

It was obviously hyperbolic; my intention was nowhere near what you misunderstood it to be.

Perhaps your own bigotry is revealed in that you seem to believe that militant Republicans are the ones holed up in cabins in the woods. Based on your posts here and your own reasoning, "a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own", this seems to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Carlene 12]

Lucys comment:

A bigoted statement, it is insulting and infers that I am a militant republican.

Really? You must be acquainted with a whole different genre of Republicans than we have around here, 'cause none of our Republicans have that survivalist mentality - at least none I've ever met.

Please note, I was attempting to have a conversation but repeated attacks will cause retaliation in kind, I can flame war with the best if that is what is wished.

Flame away, hoss.....if that's what blows your skirt up.

[BJean 16]

Is someone here actually saying that the universal health care system in other countries is inferior to the health care in the U.S. and they know this because they experienced problems with universal health care in.... let me get this straight... CUBA???? You're kidding, right?

[BJean 16]

P.S. I have absolutely no problem with Lucy's characterization of someone who absolutely doesn't give a damn about other Americans' lack of health care.

Call me any name you'd like. That doesn't change who you are Derrick.

[green 6]

Is someone here actually saying that the universal health care system in other countries is inferior to the health care in the U.S. and they know this because they experienced problems with universal health care in.... let me get this straight... CUBA???? You're kidding, right?

Yah, that bit of logic shocked me, too!!!! :faint::faint::faint:

[L8BloomR 1]

Is someone here actually saying that the universal health care system in other countries is inferior to the health care in the U.S. and they know this because they experienced problems with universal health care in.... let me get this straight... CUBA???? You're kidding, right?

Uh, I know that I am jumping in here pretty late in the game, but I don't get the confusion regarding this statement. Are you doubting the fact that Cuba is below the U.S. on the W.H.O. list of countries with the best health care? Cuba is #39, the U.S. is #37. (That statistic is even on Michael Moore's own website.) Or is there another issue I am not getting?

[BJean 16]

Do you think that universal health care in Cuba is a barometer by which to judge all universal health care systems?