Health Care is not as bad as some may think

[lindaa 1]

Green, Before you label me as being judgemental, try to understand what I am saying and not read into it. Of course there should be assistance for people who, through no fault of their own, develop life-threatening illnesses, and yes there are many people like that. However, as a nurse, I am more than aware that many people could avoid or reduce the need for expensive procedures and hospitalizations by making life style changes. Additionally, there is a growing number of people who feel entitled to expensive and unnecessary treatments without feeling a need to contribute to the system that has to pay for these treatments. I happen to volunteer in a free clinic, and I see this every day. It's one thing to talk theoretically about universal health care, but you get a different perspective when you work in it.

[Carlene 12]

I do agree with him and I am a true republican and don't really care that others may not like him....I really don't...

And your point would be??????

[Carlene 12]

Carlene, then I suppose you would put the welfare of others over your own family? If so, explain your reasoning please.

It isn't an either/or issue, Derick. As I said before, you will/would sing a different tune should your (or yours) be so unfortunate as to need health care that was totally out of reach, financially.

Medicare is a great example....Surely you don't believe their monthly premiums even begin to cover the cost of elder care in today's medical arena? I have NO parents and NO grandparents, however. So I am subsidizing health care for YOUR aging relatives. Shouldn't I be pissed about that?

[Carlene 12]

Why should I pay for a new liver for the person who destroyed theirs by drinking? Why should I pay for a lung transplant for a smoker who refuses to quit?

As someone who has seen the organ transplant program up close and personal, I'd like to set the record straight regarding this misconception.

Liver transplants for alcohol related Hepatitis and/or Cirrhosis are VERY closely scrutinized. No one gets an organ unless he/she has been completely sober for at least 6 months, and they are tested regularly while waiting for a liver. Same for smokers (lung AND heart transplant patients).

The transplant programs will not touch a smoker - insured or not - or a drinker. Even Mickey Mantle (an alcoholic) was routinely tested. I know this because my late DH was in Baylor's liver transplant program at the same time as Mantle and I had many conversations with his wife, Marilyn.

[Carlene 12]

Good luck with that. Let me know how things work out for you when you're holed up in a cabin in the woods with your stash of canned food, bottled Water, and ammunition.

Why would I be doing that? I dare say Lucy, you are a bigot. You need help

I'm confused....How does Lucy's comment reflect bigoted thinking?

[ELENATION 0]

Yes I was born in Cuba, which in fact it's the country that Michael Moore talks about in his "documentary" movie, claiming that their health care system is better than ours..........big fat lie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I should know better than him!

I also have a close friend who is german that almost died waiting for his surgery in Germany, yes, maybe they did have clean sheets and a/c, but he still had major problems finding the right doctor for his condition and was waiting a very, very long time for his surgery, he ended up coming to America and paying out of pocket in order to save his life....thank God he had the money to do that....

[ELENATION 0]

<p><p>No point to you, I obviously replied to you in error and I apologize for that, I wasn't trying to make any point, I was simply stating my opinion and I wasn't directing my comment to you, therefore you do not need to reply to me. Thank you.</p></p>

[Sunta 5]

I am going to choose to ignore your insulting remark.

I guess it's easier to ignore my remarks than to actually, oh I don't know...

Post the study???

You state you didn't pull the stats out of your ass, but I think you did, little boy.

[ELENATION 0]

I Totally Agree With You And Your Other Comment Below About People Fro Other Countries Coming To America To Have Their Procedures Because The Wait Is Fatally Long In Their Countries....

[lindaa 1]

As someone who has seen the organ transplant program up close and personal, I'd like to set the record straight regarding this misconception.

Charlene, OK, Let's say that everyone that recieves a transplant is a clean, sober, non-smoker for six months proir to the transplant AND stays that way after the transplant. (Never mind the years during which the organs were damaged.) What about the on-going costs associated with the chronic conditions of all the people who choose not to remain drug, alcohol, and smoke free? My point is that eventually every universal health care system will have to set limits and make decisions about who will or will not recieve services, and ultimately the system will weaken the economy of that country. At least in the American system, while not perfiect, rewards those who contribute with insurance coverage, and provides for thoes who can not (i.e. Medicare etc).

Since you brought up Mickey Mantel. Seems to me that he recieved his organs very quickly--unlike other people who were waiting. Not a good example if you want to talk about distribution ethics.

[Carlene 12]

My point is that eventually every universal health care system will have to set limits and make decisions about who will or will not recieve services, and ultimately the system will weaken the economy of that country. At least in the American system, while not perfiect, rewards those who contribute with insurance coverage, and provides for thoes who can not (i.e. Medicare etc).

I don't disagree with you, but "those who cannot" would include children without medical insurance, in my reality. They are every bit as vulnerable and as needy and deserving as anybody's grandma.

Since you brought up Mickey Mantel. Seems to me that he recieved his organs very quickly--unlike other people who were waiting. Not a good example if you want to talk about distribution ethics.

You have a good memory. Mantle received a liver quite quickly and, contrary to accepted procedure, after cancer was discovered in his existing organ. I spoke personally and at some length with the team that did his transplant, however, and their story was that (a) they did not realize the cancer had spread and ( it was "literally raining livers that month"....meaning that the organ MM received did not deprive another matching recipient from getting one. That's one of the bad things about organ transplantation....it doesn't matter how high up on the list you are, an available organ can only go to someone who's a tissue and blood type match.

[lindaa 1]

Hi Charlene, Most states, including the one in which I live have very good health insurance for children and disabled individuals. One example that comes to mind was a recently widowed young mother whose husband had declined to purchase health insurance for his family believing that "someone" would take care of him or his family if they became sick. Shortly after his tragic death, one of the kids fell and broke her arm. First the mom signed up for the state administered plan which as a single mom she now qualified for, and then took the child to the ER.

All hospitals that recieve grants or financial reimbursement from the government are required to donate a certain amount of services for thoes who can not pay. Hospitals and health care providers must work out payment plans for people unable to pay for emergency services. All professional groups have an ethical responsibility to perform "community service" which often means donating services. (Hence my free clinic experience)

In a perfect world, everyone would contribute what they could, and no one would abuse the resources. In the meantime, I am going to Mexico because I cannot afford to pay for my Lapband in the United States. I am thankful that my husband and I have been able to work for 30 years and our kids are almost through college so that I can finally do this.

[marnie723 0]

Have you looked into the Canadian economy lately? It is booming even with it's universal health care. It's right every system has it's flaws but universal health systems seem to work for every country that has it. There are waits for non life threatening surgury but in Canada those waits come from a shortage of doctors referred to as the "brain drain" who have all come to the United States where they can make alot more money off of the "for profit" system. I still prefer the Universal system .

[green 6]

@ elena and lindaa. You must first of all understand, elena, that all medical systems will make mistakes in their treatments of their patients from time to time. This means that the advanced affluent indutrialised western nation which does operate on the universal health care system will occasionally screw up. This also means that the business-driven health care system will also screw up. This is human nature, is it not?

It can be argued that the two systems are likely to screw up for different reasons. In the case of the financially driven system the screw-up may stem from a cutting off of further funding. In the case of the universal health care system in an advanced industrial nation the screw-up is likely to be a question of dumb human error. It certainly will have nothing to do with the cash flow being cut off.

As for you, lindaa, I am inclined to persist with my initial assessment of you as being someone who is both mean-spirited and judgemental. You see, I have been spending a fair amount of my past blonde 10 to 20 years reading up on such issues as morbid obesity, addictive personalities, depression and other forms of seemingly self-indulgent psychological misbehaviour, and, within this framework, a host of other questions upon which hinge the individual's emotional and psychological life.

The latest genetic and neuro-chemical studies are kind of fascinating. They would seem to indicate that many of the behaviours which you have categorised as falling within the framework of moral failures are not; they are medical issues and these individuals certainly do not need someone like you deciding as to who will or who will not qualify for help.

Let me explain. Research has been done on a genetically pure Amerindian tribe who suffers from obesity. These folks are desert people and their ability to survive on little food was extraordinarily valuable in their remote past. Now this means that everything this gang eats translates to lard and the tribe is troubled by morbid obesity. Of course there are horrible health problems which come on the heels of this. I read about this study 15 years ago and over 50% of this tribe were morbidly obese, were suffering from diabetes, cholesterol, and heart-related problems. Are you going to say to these individuals that you have brought this on yourself? You've been eating too much? Are you going to kick these people to the curb?

People who suffer from mental illnesses are more likely to self-medicate. Indeed this is now considered to be a response to feelings of psychological distress and is an indicator that the abuser should be assessed for emotional problems. But it looks like you are ready to kick a drug abuser or an alcoholic to the curb, does it not? You should be aware that mental illness is something which is outside the individual's choice and is often a genetic issue.

I really cannot see that there is anyone who wakes up and says to themselves that their goal in life is to become an overweight, dysfunctional, chain-smoking, drug addicted alcoholic.

I do believe that very bad things can and will happen to all sorts of families and that this is due to bad genetic luck or tragic family circumstances or whatever.... I also believe that the rich are insulated from the financial fall-out of these tragedies because they have the bucks. The rest of us are not insulated and that this is the generous philosophy which the affluent industrialised counties which do have universal medicine operate on.

You must remember that you as a single individual will never be required to pay the entire tab of someone's lung transplant, you know. You should also know that hospitals are not in the habit of giving away valuable spare parts to those folks who have treated their own equipment carelessly.

[green 6]

Have you looked into the Canadian economy lately? It is booming even with it's universal health care. It's right every system has it's flaws but universal health systems seem to work for every country that has it. There are waits for non life threatening surgury but in Canada those waits come from a shortage of doctors referred to as the "brain drain" who have all come to the United States where they can make alot more money off of the "for profit" system. I still prefer the Universal system .

Yup, marnie is right. The economy is booming.