Are we not the perfect scientific study against the idea of calorie/fat burning?

[chunkyloverlovesyou 197]

Does anybody remember a few decades ago the conventional wisdom about fat cells? Once added by weight gain, they never go away? Even with dramatic weight loss, those shriveled up fat cells remain in the body just waiting to pounce on calories and plump themselves up again?

That mental image has never left me. It makes me so mad that these skinny shriveled cells are just lying in wait. I think it was actually what the liposuction industry used to convince us that Lipo was a way to solve that. Actually remove the skinny shriveled fat cells along with plump fat cells once and for all.

Not saying it's true. Just saying it stuck with me.

Kinda like these fat cells.

Oh I agree with the fat cell theory, the last place I gained weight as a kid was my arms, when I lost for a short time it went away, but the very first place it came back was my fat a$$ arms. Easier to store fat in an existing fat cell than make a new one

[JamieLogical 8,708]

That's an interesting calculator, wonder how accurate it is. But even 4k, would still be hard. She had gastric bypass, which you also have to factor in the limited absorbtion. Someone should put a 24hr cam on her... See what she eats... 4science

Eat ice cream all day long... you could get over 4000 calories easy. Drink juice... eat cake..... eat cheese puffs.... eat and drink at the same time. Remember, bypass patients no longer have a functioning pyloric valve, so if they eat and drink at the same time, everything just flushes straight through their pouch into their intestines. I'm pretty sure I could get over 4000 calories a day just by eating slowly all day long, eating slider foods, and drinking at the same time.

[Stephanie Stroup McIntosh 157]

The human body is crazy. It will try to store the calories that you do consume, because it is in shock. Stay with the program. It will work. I understand the frustration. I routinely burn more calories at the gym than I consume, but my weight doesn't always show it.

[MichiganChic 3,262]

There's more to obesity than calories in/calories out. Science just does not have all the pieces yet. I've seen enough "known fact" be proven wrong over the years as more knowledge is gained, and I think there is much more to learn in the area of obesity. So, to the OP statement, yes, I think we would be a good study cohort. I should do that Just not sure what my hypothesis would be.

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

For many years I was a low carbohydrate denier...Haha...thought it was a gimmick. My experience post sleeve has changed my mind. I DID eat way too much presleeve so calories WERE definitely a factor but I have learned a few weird things.

I lost 100 percent of my excess weight something my surgeon claims few do given my profile. BMI over 50, lifetime of obesity, post menopausal woman etc. I believe it was because I was a low carb hardass during about the last 60# of my weightless. I am no longer strict but I am still much lower carb than most. I know this isn't for everyone but dammit I wanted a chance to sample life as a normal size woman. We went ziplining and I didn't have to wear the fat person's extra harness piece. It was a small thing but I just love being a woman sizedhuman not a big person....I deserve at least a little time with that!

Now that I am normal weight I have to work to maintain but I eat pretty similar to my skinny minnie gfriend. I have a solid 30# on her (she is actually underweight and bony by her own admission but also small framed whereas I am of a robust build). We are on a trip together so I know how our eating compares. I am more physically active too. However I am still more prone to stress eatin. The day I had the medical thing going on, I had a snack when neither of us normally would. I bet I do that unconsciously at to.we. she stops eating when stressed. My point, I admit to remaining dillusional at times about my real food consumption. It is easy for me to hide my bariatric history since truth of the matter is that thinmiddle aged women eat this way! (I am talking about three years post op food consumption)

[drmeow 323]

If you read some of the better low carb books out there, such as Gary Taubes' books and Phinney & Volek's books, you'll find that is true. Metabolism is NOT as simple as calories in/calories out. For example, you can "burn" more calories doing cardio than weight lifting, but weight lifting is far better at causing weight loss than lots of cardio. Cardio is good for your heart, yes, but it's not a magic fat burner. And eating 800 calories of starches is worse for you than eating 1200 calories of Protein and fat. Sugar (carbs) is preferentially stored as fat.

Ketosis has a lot to do with it. I always did very well losing weight on a strict low carb (<25 g carb per day) diet but I had a hard time staying on it long term b/c each little cheat would set you back a week of being out of ketosis again. So I am hoping that bypass will help me stick with low carb due to not tolerating those "cheats" anymore. But I will still need to eat low carb to get down as low as I'd like.

But you're still talking about metabolism here. The reason strength training is better at fat-burning long term than cardio is that muscle increases metabolism. I've heard estimates that every extra pound of muscle burns an extra 50 calories a day. Put on 10 pounds of muscle and you're burning 500 calories more per day than you were before. With cardio, you burn a lot of calories in the moment, but you don't increase your basal metabolic rate. With strength training, you burn fewer calories in the moment, but increase the amount of calories you burn throughout the day to sustain that muscle.

You're right - it's still metabolism but what I was stressing is that I don't think there are any hard and fast formulae to calculate how much extra muscle does burn, and that the simple calculators which say "eat 1200 calories, burn off 400 with activity and you'll drop X pounds" is completely wrong - there are just too many things which affect it.

Eating low carb forces your body to burn fat into ketones, which the brain prefers. I can eat 1500 cal of low carb food and easily lose weight, but if I have more than 25 g of carbs, my calorie level has to drop way down, and even then, weight loss is slow.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

I agree with those who say that we have a LOT to learn yet about the human body with regard to obesity. I don't believe that all naturally thin people eat little (and healthy) and exercise a lot. Many thin people stay thin/normal weight by smoking, too. While I do believe food is a big factor, I also believe that much of obesity is genetic. So, until they figure out that factor there is WLS.

I also agree with the fat cell theory - that you have them at birth or develop them during pregnancy (another bonus for us women!!) and once there they can shrink but not disappear (unless through liposuction as the poster said) always ready to be filled.

I also believe in the set point weight - that your body desires to get to a weight it is comfortable with - where you struggle trying to lose beyond it.

But everyone has their own unique experiences with weight, weight loss and metabolism.

[chunkyloverlovesyou 197]

oh i want to add, bulemia doesnt fix it either, When your body gets the influx of food, it is already setting into motion the release of insulin, when you purge the food, it turns the insulin to fat! it had to do more with how your body handles sugar, and less about what actually gets digested

[LipstickLady 25,682]

when you purge the food, it turns the insulin to fat!

Huh?

[Stevehud 1,790]

lots of great posts here. well said by many.

[scstxrn 213]

Insulin doesn't turn into fat. It's a storage hormone that is released to move glucose (sugar) from your bloodstream into cells, where it can be used as fuel or stored as fat. That would be like having a key turn into a house.

With regards to the original post - there's a test they can do based off of your respiratory byproducts to determine how much cellular waste is being produced by your 'metabolism'.

http://www.fitnesswave.com/portal/portal/getdunked/services/restingmetabolic They can also do something similar while you're on a treadmill / bike / etc and tell you exactly how many calories you're burning.

It's expensive, but were I doing a research project on pre / post bariatric energy expenditure or surgery vs. non surgery groups, it's the only place I'd start.