Intimacy

[rrod0991 0]

I am #7 of 11 kids. My parents have a healthy sex life . My siblings range in age from 43-3. I myself have 4 kids and love my husband deeply. He has mental hang-ups about sex. I am glad your husband is in the ARMY as my father just retired from 31 years in the ARMY 15 of which he was a Drill Sargent and since 2002 he was in charge of making sure that everyone in the Western US that was heading out to war was battle ready. That being said I understand the life of an ARMY wife and it is the hardest job in the military. I watched my mother go through beatings at the hands of a man who's hands are registered lethal weapons and he was not that nice to us , he was after all a very powerful man in the military. He killed a man in 1970 when he was a Ranger and spent 89 days in jail. He was not a good man, thank GOD he changed and is a good man now. After all of that growing up I never wanted to marry, then I met Jose who is very good to me and A wonderful father. Just because the sex is not there does not mean that we have no relationship. We actually have a very loving marriage and I would not give him up for all of the sex in the world. I just miss having sex.

[Agnot 0]

My heart goes out to you guys. I am a man who has been married to the love of his life for 25 years (since age 19).

Unfortunately my wife was abused as a child and has developed a plethera of emotional/ physchological problems because of it. There is virtually no intimacy in our marriage. My wife has been unfaithful on multiple occasions and mostly unresponsive or perpentually angry to me and our children.

While I have accepted that this is an outgrowth from the emotional / physchological problems she has, and take my vows "in sickness and health" and "till death" seriously, I am faced with a new dilemma I need your help with, please.

Since my lapbanding on 11/19/07 ( I have lost 35 LBS since the process began in September!! WOOHOO!! Thank You God!!) I am now facing a new problem with my wife constantly asking am I going to leave now, will I love her now, etc..

I have never cheated on my wife, and understanding her root problems of fear of abandonment I am very sensitive to these feelings.

However, the abhorent behaviour is increasing as well my increased feelings of isolation and loneliness...

Can anyone Help?

[juliegeraci 7]

Agnot, would you consider marriage counseling? My husband and I are going on a Marriage Encounter weekend the end of February. They hold these all over the country. It is held by the Catholic church but they welcome every denomination. I had an affair on my husband almost 2 years ago. And while he was devasted we were able to put our marriage back together. I'm sorry that you feel so isolated. It sounds like you really need some healing in your marriage. Good luck.

[Agnot 0]

Julie,

Thank You, I am always encouraged when I see outpouring of kindness an concern such as yours. God Bless you.

I am very familiar with the marriage encounter weekends and think they are great! I do not mean to complain here at all. I believe that we are to lift up one another instead of bringing each other down.

I would very much like to try this, however my wife is not to the place (OCD, borderline personality disorder, depression and others) where she could effectively participate.

I have had to learn to step back and look at things from another point of view, even a distorted one, over the years. In most cases, I can deal pretty well. The problem is uncertainly and fear of abondonment is a BIG trigger for my wifes anti-social acting out with borderline personality disorder. Regardless of what I might say or do, this whole thing might start again out of perceived feelings.

I do beleive you are equipted to carry whatever load is given you and everything works for good. This has been my life experience.

I wish the best for everyone.

Agnot

Banded 11/19/07

[Nina_S 1]

My heart goes out to you guys. I am a man who has been married to the love of his life for 25 years (since age 19).

Unfortunately my wife was abused as a child and has developed a plethera of emotional/ physchological problems because of it. There is virtually no intimacy in our marriage. My wife has been unfaithful on multiple occasions and mostly unresponsive or perpentually angry to me and our children.

While I have accepted that this is an outgrowth from the emotional / physchological problems she has, and take my vows "in sickness and health" and "till death" seriously, I am faced with a new dilemma I need your help with, please.

Since my lapbanding on 11/19/07 ( I have lost 35 LBS since the process began in September!! WOOHOO!! Thank You God!!) I am now facing a new problem with my wife constantly asking am I going to leave now, will I love her now, etc..

I have never cheated on my wife, and understanding her root problems of fear of abandonment I am very sensitive to these feelings.

However, the abhorent behaviour is increasing as well my increased feelings of isolation and loneliness...

Can anyone Help?

((Agnot))

First of all I want to congratulate you on your banding and the weightloss - that's is fantastic! As easy as it may be for me to tell you reassure your wife that she has, which you have built, a "safe haven" in your love - that wouldn't resolve it all. I think that first your wife has seek some sort of counseling/therapy onher own accord. Not to "keep" you but for her own personal healing and well-being, that seems to have been neglected. Agnot, you are a great guy, you have hung in there through all of this and probably some other things as well, but you have to recognize your role as the enabler. Your goal was to build a family yet you have allowed your wife to alter that with her "outgrowth" from her past. Hold off on the stones, I know that you can't control others or there past or destine their lives. I am sure that at some point you felt like your love was enough to "make everything alright". I guess at this point I would like to see you protect yourself and your children and help your wife preserve herself. She may need seek help alone and then you and children can join her as a family - you all need healing.

Agnot, I admire you for honoring your vows - you deserve the best!

N~

[Agnot 0]

I am #7 of 11 kids. My parents have a healthy sex life . My siblings range in age from 43-3. I myself have 4 kids and love my husband deeply. He has mental hang-ups about sex. I am glad your husband is in the ARMY as my father just retired from 31 years in the ARMY 15 of which he was a Drill Sargent and since 2002 he was in charge of making sure that everyone in the Western US that was heading out to war was battle ready. That being said I understand the life of an ARMY wife and it is the hardest job in the military. I watched my mother go through beatings at the hands of a man who's hands are registered lethal weapons and he was not that nice to us , he was after all a very powerful man in the military. He killed a man in 1970 when he was a Ranger and spent 89 days in jail. He was not a good man, thank GOD he changed and is a good man now. After all of that growing up I never wanted to marry, then I met Jose who is very good to me and A wonderful father. Just because the sex is not there does not mean that we have no relationship. We actually have a very loving marriage and I would not give him up for all of the sex in the world. I just miss having sex.

Hang in there rrod0991..There's nothing that says that relationships won't be messy and complicated (my wife was abused by her father while in the military over a period of 10 years, when I met her!)

Nobody outside of a situation like yours can completely understand all of your challenges. as long as you guys love one another and are willing to work at it, I can almost guarantee your situation will improve!

Take care,

Agnot

Banded 11/19/07 :whoo:

[cathgr8 1]

I have a lot of experience with BPD, my 23 YO adopted DD has it, and I have done a lot of reading on the subject. Have you? If so, maybe this would be a good time for you to re-read the books, so to speak. Is she writing to any message boards, or exploring the possibility of counseling for her feelings regarding your band? This is not your problem, it is hers. You can learn and practice better ways of responding to her. However, as you probably know, there is not much chance of her changing, unless she is actively pursuing change. You can refuse to accept abuse, and unlike me, you can decide to leave and not deal with her behavior. My BF divorced his BPD wife after 32 years. He has spoken to herfour times in the past year, and each time, she started in on the verbal abuse. Now he just refuses to speak to her directly, and his own health, both physical and emotional, has improved dramatically. You and your feelings are important too. Take care of you.

[BJean 16]

Agnot: Maybe you should explain to your wife that you would never leave her because you've lost weight. But that if she doesn't stop being so negative you might have to leave her, in spite of your undying love for her, so that at least one of you can be happy and work on building your childrens' self esteem. Having a parent be mad at you all the time is so very demoralizing.

What your wife doesn't understand is that what happened in her childhood, although it may have been horrendous, is over, done with, kaput. She has an opportunity at this point in time to make her life whatever she wants it to be. Or she can choose to live in the past, dwell in that dark place of fear and disgust, and shut out any possibility of happiness for herself, for her husband and most importantly, for her children. And when you get down to it, that's pretty damned selfish on her part.

Whoever wronged her in the past has their own demons to deal with. She can't change what happened, nor those people. They probably will never say they are truly sorry. She just has to learn how to let it go and build a beautiful life, either through faith in herself, her husband (you), her children, or her God, or preferably in all of the above.

Granted, all that is easier said than done. With all the psychologists/psychiatrists, drugs and Dr. Phil type people on the tube, we tend to think that it is healthy to bring up the pain of our childhoods. I say balderdash! Fact is, we ALL have painful childhoods in one way or another.

What we have to learn to accept is that whoever did us wrong - was WRONG yes - but they can't hurt us anymore unless we keep those memories and that pain fresh in our minds. We have to realize that no one is perfect and that bad things always happen. We just must focus on taking care of ourselves and making a good life for ourselves and our loved ones every single day.

She expects you to leave her because she thinks that is what she deserves. She is trying to prepare herself for losing you and her kids' love, because that's what she knows she deserves.

What she has to learn is that she deserves a happy life filled with a great husband and great children. No life is perfect, but so what? The bad times wind up making the good times all the more sweet.

I hope somehow you can get through to her. If not, maybe she'll consider some medical help, like an antidepressant. It could get her over the hump and allow her to be open to embracing the idea of a beautiful life with you and your children.

My heart goes out to her and to you. I hope you can find a way to help her help herself, especially for the children.

[TheGh0st 9]

Argot - My heart and prayers go out to you as well. I wish I had some wonderful words of wisdom for you but alas I do not.

Still I wanted to thankyou for sharing what you are going through with us and applaud you sticking by your wife these past 25+ years. I can't presume to know what you or your wife are going through but I also suffer from some issues of abandonment and know it is hard on my husband at times. I feel my case is fairly mild and has definitely improved over the last two years since I was banded. (Not necessarily because I lost weight but because of the other changes that have occured during this weight loss proceess).

The fears I battle have caused me to second guess and misinterpret even some of the most innocent comments (or lack thereof) at times and has definitely had an impact on our intimacy in the past. Strange I know, if I'm afraid he will leave me why would I withhold intimacy, but on my bad days it was like I was afraid that by being intimate I would be too exposed to him, allowing him to see the flaws in myself that I see, which would only speed that "inevitable" day when he decided to leave me. I never went so far as to cheat on him after we were married but these same issues lead me to problems with "faithfulness" in my pre-marriage relationships. Again the idea was if this one is only going to leave me too why not start looking for a new one now. I use to joke that my theme song was "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with". Warped I realize now but at the time I couldn't break the pattern.

If I were to hazard a guess into her thought process right now it would be something along the lines of "yeah, he's stuck by me, and tells me he loves me, he didn't even leave after I cheated each time BUT that's only because of the kids (if you have any), or because of money issues, or because he hasn't found anything better, or , or , or..." And not one of those or's would be because you really love her, at least in her mind. After all how can she possibly convince herself you are staying because you love her if she doesn't love herself? I know I definitely had that problem. I would think, Sure he says he loves me, he even thinks he loves me, but that's only because he doesn't really know the real me. Once he figures that out he'll be gone for sure.

And like you said your losing weight would play into that fear that you might leave her if you found something better. And by losing wieght she will think it will be easier for you to find someone else or for them to find you.

Again I wish I could tell you how to "fix" her but unfortunately she is really the only one that can do that. You sticking by her though does help more than you realize. After 25 years its hard to say it will get better, but I do think given some time for her to get use the new "banded" you things will hopefully calm back down to a new norm if not a better one.

[Agnot 0]

I am #7 of 11 kids. My parents have a healthy sex life . My siblings range in age from 43-3. I myself have 4 kids and love my husband deeply. He has mental hang-ups about sex. I am glad your husband is in the ARMY as my father just retired from 31 years in the ARMY 15 of which he was a Drill Sargent and since 2002 he was in charge of making sure that everyone in the Western US that was heading out to war was battle ready. That being said I understand the life of an ARMY wife and it is the hardest job in the military. I watched my mother go through beatings at the hands of a man who's hands are registered lethal weapons and he was not that nice to us , he was after all a very powerful man in the military. He killed a man in 1970 when he was a Ranger and spent 89 days in jail. He was not a good man, thank GOD he changed and is a good man now. After all of that growing up I never wanted to marry, then I met Jose who is very good to me and A wonderful father. Just because the sex is not there does not mean that we have no relationship. We actually have a very loving marriage and I would not give him up for all of the sex in the world. I just miss having sex.

((Agnot))

First of all I want to congratulate you on your banding and the weightloss - that's is fantastic! As easy as it may be for me to tell you reassure your wife that she has, which you have built, a "safe haven" in your love - that wouldn't resolve it all. I think that first your wife has seek some sort of counseling/therapy onher own accord. Not to "keep" you but for her own personal healing and well-being, that seems to have been neglected. Agnot, you are a great guy, you have hung in there through all of this and probably some other things as well, but you have to recognize your role as the enabler. Your goal was to build a family yet you have allowed your wife to alter that with her "outgrowth" from her past. Hold off on the stones, I know that you can't control others or there past or destine their lives. I am sure that at some point you felt like your love was enough to "make everything alright". I guess at this point I would like to see you protect yourself and your children and help your wife preserve herself. She may need seek help alone and then you and children can join her as a family - you all need healing.

Agnot, I admire you for honoring your vows - you deserve the best!

N~

Nina,

Thanks for the post, you are very kind!

I have my wife in a medication / couseling regimen for 5 years now ,with two hospitalizations over the period. I understand ( a necessity!) the role of enabler and must constantly be conscious of the tendency to be "drawn in" to the problem, even through an act of love as strange as that sounds.

Your very correct about the stones, you must learn to love even when it is not reciprocated. Early on I did think love could make it alright and conquer all. I have since learned that while I still believe this true I now know it can take a lifetime, but still worth the effort.

I am commited to protecting my children and must , even against their own mother many times (i.e. Mommie Dearest). However, I hope that my choice to remain will teach the value of family, however dysfunctional

Thanks for the kind words regarding vows....but I made a promise not only to my but some even larger that us.. with his help we'll stay the course

Take care,

Agnot

Banded 11/19/07:)

[joemcc 0]

interesting thread....thank you for sharing.

[Agnot 0]

Argot - My heart and prayers go out to you as well. I wish I had some wonderful words of wisdom for you but alas I do not.

Still I wanted to thankyou for sharing what you are going through with us and applaud you sticking by your wife these past 25+ years. I can't presume to know what you or your wife are going through but I also suffer from some issues of abandonment and know it is hard on my husband at times. I feel my case is fairly mild and has definitely improved over the last two years since I was banded. (Not necessarily because I lost weight but because of the other changes that have occured during this weight loss proceess).

The fears I battle have caused me to second guess and misinterpret even some of the most innocent comments (or lack thereof) at times and has definitely had an impact on our intimacy in the past. Strange I know, if I'm afraid he will leave me why would I withhold intimacy, but on my bad days it was like I was afraid that by being intimate I would be too exposed to him, allowing him to see the flaws in myself that I see, which would only speed that "inevitable" day when he decided to leave me. I never went so far as to cheat on him after we were married but these same issues lead me to problems with "faithfulness" in my pre-marriage relationships. Again the idea was if this one is only going to leave me too why not start looking for a new one now. I use to joke that my theme song was "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with". Warped I realize now but at the time I couldn't break the pattern.

If I were to hazard a guess into her thought process right now it would be something along the lines of "yeah, he's stuck by me, and tells me he loves me, he didn't even leave after I cheated each time BUT that's only because of the kids (if you have any), or because of money issues, or because he hasn't found anything better, or , or , or..." And not one of those or's would be because you really love her, at least in her mind. After all how can she possibly convince herself you are staying because you love her if she doesn't love herself? I know I definitely had that problem. I would think, Sure he says he loves me, he even thinks he loves me, but that's only because he doesn't really know the real me. Once he figures that out he'll be gone for sure.

And like you said your losing weight would play into that fear that you might leave her if you found something better. And by losing wieght she will think it will be easier for you to find someone else or for them to find you.

Again I wish I could tell you how to "fix" her but unfortunately she is really the only one that can do that. You sticking by her though does help more than you realize. After 25 years its hard to say it will get better, but I do think given some time for her to get use the new "banded" you things will hopefully calm back down to a new norm if not a better one.

Ghost,

Thank you for the kind response.

You are right on the money! I have lived through infidelity, Bankrupty, physical abuse, verbal abuse, even sexual abuse. In each case, my wife either stating at the time or later that she was hoping that would be the "thing" to make me finally leave and please dont leave almost in the same breath.

I would be lying if I said I have not questioned a million times should I break and try to find someone who acted like they loved me in return. Having said this, I also know it is the right thing to stay.

I have lost dramatic weight before, resulting in an acting out from my wife due to fear of abandonment. It is my hope this time that the medication /therapy will curtail this.

Personally, I don not know if I can take another sexual / other indiscretion. I will leave that to one greater than myself.

I wish you continued healing with your fears and feelings. I can assure you there is ALWAYS hope. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you putting yourself out there like that.

Like I've said earlier, I believe you are giving what you need to face any situation! I feel better since beginning the lapband journey amd look forward to even better days!

Take Care,

Agnot

Banded 11/19/07

[Agnot 0]

I have a lot of experience with BPD, my 23 YO adopted DD has it, and I have done a lot of reading on the subject. Have you? If so, maybe this would be a good time for you to re-read the books, so to speak. Is she writing to any message boards, or exploring the possibility of counseling for her feelings regarding your band? This is not your problem, it is hers. You can learn and practice better ways of responding to her. However, as you probably know, there is not much chance of her changing, unless she is actively pursuing change. You can refuse to accept abuse, and unlike me, you can decide to leave and not deal with her behavior. My BF divorced his BPD wife after 32 years. He has spoken to herfour times in the past year, and each time, she started in on the verbal abuse. Now he just refuses to speak to her directly, and his own health, both physical and emotional, has improved dramatically. You and your feelings are important too. Take care of you.

Cathy,

Thank you for your kind respponse!

That is very perceptive of you, recognizing the BPD, thanks. I am hoping with the 5+ years of therapy and medication she can get better. It is my hope that I can get my wife to a place where she can let me know truly how she feels, from a place of reason. So I may know whether it is time time start again or continue on.

Over the years I have heard everything from "I only married you to get out of the (abusive) house",to "I love you" in the next breath.

As for personal feelings, they are sometimes tough to sort out, since there are also tha matters of love, honor, duty an integrity to consider.

I sometimes must leave to a someoine greater than myself.

Thank you all for your kindness, it has really helped.

Take Care,

Agnot

Banded 11/19/07:)

[Agnot 0]

Agnot: Maybe you should explain to your wife that you would never leave her because you've lost weight. But that if she doesn't stop being so negative you might have to leave her, in spite of your undying love for her, so that at least one of you can be happy and work on building your childrens' self esteem. Having a parent be mad at you all the time is so very demoralizing.

What your wife doesn't understand is that what happened in her childhood, although it may have been horrendous, is over, done with, kaput. She has an opportunity at this point in time to make her life whatever she wants it to be. Or she can choose to live in the past, dwell in that dark place of fear and disgust, and shut out any possibility of happiness for herself, for her husband and most importantly, for her children. And when you get down to it, that's pretty damned selfish on her part.

Whoever wronged her in the past has their own demons to deal with. She can't change what happened, nor those people. They probably will never say they are truly sorry. She just has to learn how to let it go and build a beautiful life, either through faith in herself, her husband (you), her children, or her God, or preferably in all of the above.

Granted, all that is easier said than done. With all the psychologists/psychiatrists, drugs and Dr. Phil type people on the tube, we tend to think that it is healthy to bring up the pain of our childhoods. I say balderdash! Fact is, we ALL have painful childhoods in one way or another.

What we have to learn to accept is that whoever did us wrong - was WRONG yes - but they can't hurt us anymore unless we keep those memories and that pain fresh in our minds. We have to realize that no one is perfect and that bad things always happen. We just must focus on taking care of ourselves and making a good life for ourselves and our loved ones every single day.

She expects you to leave her because she thinks that is what she deserves. She is trying to prepare herself for losing you and her kids' love, because that's what she knows she deserves.

What she has to learn is that she deserves a happy life filled with a great husband and great children. No life is perfect, but so what? The bad times wind up making the good times all the more sweet.

I hope somehow you can get through to her. If not, maybe she'll consider some medical help, like an antidepressant. It could get her over the hump and allow her to be open to embracing the idea of a beautiful life with you and your children.

My heart goes out to her and to you. I hope you can find a way to help her help herself, especially for the children.

BJean,

Thank you for your kind response!

It has been a bit draining but, for the most part, my children (16,20) are really great people, thank God. I have taught them not personalize and be drawn into their mother's behaviour.

I have repeatedly tried to explain that the dark place where she grew up is not now. As strange as it sounds, so far my wife would rather live in that past.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that life is one big jumbled up mess to be enjoyed an savored whereever you find yourself. Life is good and I look forward to all of its surprises. Your childhod is part of that wonderful adventure, in spite of the trials.

Thanks again for your kind words, I really appreciate it.

Take care,

Agnot

Banded 11/19/07:)

[green 6]

My heart goes out to you guys. I am a man who has been married to the love of his life for 25 years (since age 19).

Unfortunately my wife was abused as a child and has developed a plethera of emotional/ physchological problems because of it. There is virtually no intimacy in our marriage. My wife has been unfaithful on multiple occasions and mostly unresponsive or perpentually angry to me and our children.

While I have accepted that this is an outgrowth from the emotional / physchological problems she has, and take my vows "in sickness and health" and "till death" seriously, I am faced with a new dilemma I need your help with, please.

Since my lapbanding on 11/19/07 ( I have lost 35 LBS since the process began in September!! WOOHOO!! Thank You God!!) I am now facing a new problem with my wife constantly asking am I going to leave now, will I love her now, etc..

I have never cheated on my wife, and understanding her root problems of fear of abandonment I am very sensitive to these feelings.

However, the abhorent behaviour is increasing as well my increased feelings of isolation and loneliness...

Can anyone Help?

I am sorry that you are living in the Land of Sad at this time. To tell you the truth I understand the reasons behind your wife's behaviour very well. While I was never sexually abused I was born with a medical condition which required painful physiotherapy during the first year of my life in order that it be corrected. The emotional effect of this on a baby was the same as physical abuse although the goal was far, far different. Then I was abandoned in favour of my baby brother when I was 1.5 years old and abandoned again when I was sent away from the family to boarding school. Add in the genetic difficulty of inherited depression and parents who were not emotionally prepared to be parents, a lousy first marriage, and the result was disasterous for those around me.

I have been seeing "mental dentists" since I was kicked out of boarding school for smoking drugs and that was a long, long time ago. I have also been diagnosed at various times in my life as having BPD, being bi-polar, and being a simple depressive with family issues.

One of the things which has saved my bacon is that I finally met a man who sounds rather like yourself in many ways. He is true-blue, understanding, tolerant, proud of me, and loving. He has nursed me through all the bad times. He has done all the shopping, cleaned the house when I was too depressed to move. He has, however, put his foot down when it has come to certain behaviours of mine. I am not allowed to be cruel to him and I doubt that he would put up with much infidelity on my part. He has told me when I was acting out, in a very calm and non-threatening fashion, that he would have to leave if I persisted because it was simply too difficult to live with me. This caused me to start thinking about what I was doing to a very decent man, one who does love me.

The other things which have helped repair me have been proper medication and on-going psychotherapy. My mate and I are about to enter into our 24th year together and our relationship is a peaceful and a happy one. We are very supportive of each other. When I do into problems with depression I no longer take out my pain, my anger, or my abandonment issues on my husband. Instead I bleed quietly and arrange for the professionals in this field to help me.

I have told you my personal history because I think that it introduces a number of salient points into this discussion. One: you may need to undergo counselling yourself in order to figure out what your own boundaries are so that you can introduce your wife to these.

Two: your wife will be unable to function sufficiently well in order to deal with her emotional grief until she is on proper medication. Depression is as much an illness as diabetes is. Depression is an issue resulting from f*cked-up brain chemistry and as long as the individual is floating around in the abnormal state which is depression she will be unable to see anything clearly or rationally. Trust me when I say this: I have been wearing the t-shirt for a long, long time. I will also warn you that not all antidepressants work the same on all people. A good doc recognises this and is prepared to work with the patient, trying out different meds and combinations of meds.

Three: your wife will also need to engage herself in some talk therapy. (This will be most effective once she has got her meds in place.) She has obviously got a lot on her plate. She is filled with self-loathing, I would guess, and she horribly insecure and needy. I am inclined to suggest that she opt for a psychologist for the talk therapy portion of her treatment. She will definitely need a psychiatrist for the medication part of the treatment.