Intimacy

[green 6]

I am very much with BJean on this issue. I have suffered from feelings of anger and bouts of major depression throughout my life and it is difficult, especially difficult for us women, to sort through these emotions and 'own' those which are rightfully ours. Strong emotions are difficult for the civilized human creature to deal with and such emotions are particularly difficult for women to deal with because they are considered to be crude, brutish, irrational, uncivilized, and unfeminine.

On my initial visit with my psychologist, a woman to whom I had been referred by my doc during a recent and the most crippling bout of depression I have ever experienced, she wanted to know what was wrong. I said I was so depressed I could hardly move and I also mentioned that I had major anger management issues. I answered that I was prone to either aggressive responses or to hostile fantasies towards those who irritated me. She listened to all of this, a list of my personal wounds and failures, and then told me that I was a step ahead of most women. She said that women were kind of nervous about owning up to the really savage emotions, rage being the biggy.

And what a surprise for me! I thought that I was such a poor woman because I was so animal like, because I was and still am such an angry grrl. Go figure, eh......

[green 6]

It is important to recognise those feelings to which you have a right. You should not feel that you must mask these because they are not kind, nurturing, forgiving, Christian, or lady-like. At the same time it is important that none of us indulge in victimology. This is a fine line indeed as such fellow members as Monk will tell us.

[BJean 16]

Green I have been engulfed with so much rage from time to time that I have gritted my teeth so badly in my sleep that I have cracked some jaw teeth. It is a very painful experience and I now have 2 crowns over what were perfectly good teeth.

I don't know whether you're ahead of me on understanding this stuff, or if perhaps I'm a little ahead of you. Whatever... we're both on meds and although I worry about taking W. too long, and about the long-term effects, right now I don't think I can do without them.

I love your openness and how easily I can relate to many of your life experiences. You're a good egg, Charlie Brown. Oh I mean green.

[gadgetlady 4]

Back to the issue of marriage . . .

This thread has really touched my heart. My husband and I would like to bless two married couples from LBT with a "Weekend to Remember" marriage enrichment conference. You can get more information about it at Overview - Marriage Conference - Weekend to Remember. We will cover the cost of the conference for the weekend. You will need to cover transportation and hotel (if any). These conferences are held all over the country so most people should be able to find something close to them. Hotel arrangements may not even need to be made if the conference you attend is nearby. Go to WTR Registration - Step 1 for locations. For some testimonials of changed marriages through this conference, go to Changed Lives - Marriage Conference - Weekend to Remember.

If you'd like to submit your name and information for consideration, please email me at veryblessedlife@gmail.com. DO NOT PM ME! My PM box is almost completely full and I don't have the energy to clean it out.

Please give me some details about yourself and your marriage in your email. We would like to make a decision on who to bless by August 1, so please get me your emails ASAP.

[green 6]

Green I have been engulfed with so much rage from time to time that I have gritted my teeth so badly in my sleep that I have cracked some jaw teeth. It is a very painful experience and I now have 2 crowns over what were perfectly good teeth.

I don't know whether you're ahead of me on understanding this stuff, or if perhaps I'm a little ahead of you. Whatever... we're both on meds and although I worry about taking W. too long, and about the long-term effects, right now I don't think I can do without them.

I love your openness and how easily I can relate to many of your life experiences. You're a good egg, Charlie Brown. Oh I mean green.

Haha. Thanks, kiddo, from Charlie green. I gotta confess I always feel talking with you, grrl.:kiss2:

[Fran 1]

Wow--

I too have a great husband who could do without the physical intimacy. It has been a long time, and it hurts but what if a man is very physical and not a good husband. I miss sex, and now that I cannot replace it with food, it is harder. Be well all.

Fran

[BJean 16]

Fran life can be so unfair sometimes. When we're at the stage of raising our children and getting up with them at night, and much of the time we're running on empty, that's when the men seem to be most interested. Once we get the little darlings pretty much raised, we find our own sexual needs kicking in. That's about the time they are more interested in a beer, a good meal and some sports action either on TV or on the golf course. :cry What we learn is that sex can be simulated, but a good man is hard to replace!

[BJean 16]

I believe intimacy is another matter. You can be intimate without sex. But if someone isn't interested in sex, they're not usually wanting to get too intimate because their partner might push them for sex. So it's a lose/lose situation.

[nume130 0]

I believe intimacy is another matter. You can be intimate without sex. But if someone isn't interested in sex, they're not usually wanting to get too intimate because their partner might push them for sex. So it's a lose/lose situation.

I think you nailed it BJ. My H doesn't like any physical touch, my DD's don't try anymore but my son keeps at it. But I think my H especially shrinks from it with me because I have pushed. My oldest DD is fine because she isn't touchy feely but my middle sweetie is damaged from it. My H ignores me when I tell him that. There are alot of issues in his own life that he doesn't like to face.

[nume130 0]

He just didn't want to be the bad guy and he sure didn't want to have to pay me alimony. If I turned out to be the bad guy, he got everyone's sympathy and he got away without the baggage of the enormous guilt he put off on me. I hope that's not happening to you. Good-hearted people can be very vulnerable to someone who is willing to take advantage of them.

This is what is happening. But it is a life-long problem for him. He is always the victim.

[green 6]

I am built much like your husband, nume130. I have a horror of being touched by anyone other than my sexual partner.

[momlambert 77]

Hi, all. I've been lurking since before this thread began (actually on the thread that lead to this thread) and haven't jumped in because your stories are quite different from mine. But I've learned a lot about how my DH must feel when I'm not really "in the mood," which, I'm sure, is too often. We have sex 1-2 times a weeks so it's not like he's love-starved but I know he wishes it were MUCH more often. Once a week is about all I truly desire.

I was on Prozac for about 20 years and I think that may have affected me--that and having lots of kids close together. I really was truly exhausted for about 30 years. I'm not excusing myself, just explaining.

Anyway, how do you heighten your sex drive to be more in line with your partner's? Should you just cooperate because your partner wants it? I've done that many times and then it makes me desire it less. I've thought of your suggestion to try Wellbutrin because I'm thinking I really do need something. I can't say I'm textbook "depressed" but my emotions are way out of whack--especially toward people who I've always loved, then they do something I think is horrible, and I hold it against them forever. Why? I've never been like that but it just eats and eats at me. And it's stupid stuff that doesn't even really affect me (like my niece naming her adorable little daughter "Hero." I feel like it's emotional abuse and my niece has lost all credibility in my mind, I refuse to call her daughter that, and I label my niece as her husband as arrogant and pretentious--all because of a, IMNSHO, very poor choice).

Okay, back on topic--kind of. I also read the texts about child abuse and cried. Oh, I'm so sorry that happened to so many of you. Again, my perspective is from the opposite angle. I work with teenage boys who are sexual offenders and, much to my surprise, I've grown to love them. They are honestly trying to change their lives and overcome so much in their lives that sexualized them unhealthily when they were very young then when they hit puberty they really hurt others. Again, no excuses--just an explanation. The good thing is that if the boys finish their program the recidivism rate is only 3%--I have great hope for them. Anyway, I wanted to jump in when that discussion was at the peak but I felt bad because of the feelings I have for these youthful offenders. My heart breaks for their victims but it also breaks for them. Oh, and yes, pornography was involved in every one of their lives before they offended--usually first used when someone offended them.

A comment about "test driving"--I do think you need to date a lot before you commit to one person. Period. I don't think you have to do the driving in the bedroom. My DH and I were married when I was 18 (way too young) and he was 25. We were both virgins and have only ever had sex with each other (no, my head really isn't in the sand on this one). We have been married for 39 years. I tell my kids all the time that I was too young (luckily none have followed in my footsteps) but that I was very lucky and feel blessed to have my husband as my companion.

Gadgetlady, that is a very generous offer. My husband and I participated in a marriage enrichment seminar years ago as representatives from our Church to see if we thought it was a worthwhile program for couples having difficulties or others who want to improve their relationships. We thought it was a wonderful program and I hope that you have two couples who will take you up on your offer--you all will benefit greatly.

So on I ramble. Thanks for all of your sage advice--you really have helped me see things from my husband's perspective. I never have wanted to hurt him but I know I have. He pretty much lets me decide when we have sex--pretty unromantic, if you ask me. But, in a way, I like it that way because I feel less conflicted when I don't want to and he does.

Hang in there everyone. I hope your lives and your marriages and your partnerships are on the upward swing and improving every day--as I hope and pray mine is as well. Families are what really matter in this world, I'm convinced of that.

[monk 0]

Dear MomL: I think if my husband wanted sex 2x a week since we we younger I may have the same attitude, it was me always asking and making the first move.Soooo many rejections, arguments and tears. He knew he was not living up to what he should be and a few times he actually admitted to it. As we have grown older, my sexual feelings have changed toward him. I no longer have the sexual attraction that I had when I was young.I feel pretty confident as I've mentioned before that he has the green light to be a bit frisky because he is in the safe zone: IT'S ON ME.When you have been rejected so many times it does a real number on the ego. I have started to get the LOOK again from men as I have lost weight. Funny, isn't it? Same person, but now everyone says hi and flirts at the grocery store.Oh well, I know that was one of the reasons I gained the weight in the first place. Safety zone.It really is the only thing lacking in the relationship, we are affectionate but not intimate.I do show alot of affection though, not like I was years ago. About 10 years ago, shortly after moving to a sunny state, I started feeling good and hug and kiss friends and family all the time.My students would wait for me for their morning hug, some of these kids never experienced that kind of closeness with an adult and certainly not a white one. I was careful in the beginning not to touch the kids or get too close because of trust issues. When they would see other students interrupt my class "just to talk" and see me they developed a trust and would join the gang for hugs and support. As far as the sexual teen offenders, the statistics seem high, I hope they are right.Adult offenders rarely change their stripes.Oh well, so much for the "quick reply"! By the way, hughs and kisses to you all. Monk

[monk 0]

I tried to correct my spelling of hugs and just saw a full page of smiling faces. Oh Ghost and BJ, where are you when I need you? There is a storm here in Florida and I keep on losing power, so lets just call it hugs and sighs, or is that thighs? xxooME

[momlambert 77]

Thanks for your understanding reply, Monk--I wasn't sure how I would be perceived on this thread. I admire you greatly, by the way.

2-3 times a week???? That would have been manageable. We are talking 2-3 times a day when we were first married. I always felt like a failure for not having the desire as often as he did. Last summer I did a survey for the US Dept and Health and Human Services that asked a lot of questions about intimacy and sexual matters and for the first time in my adult life, I felt NORMAL. I would say that the average times most of the people I interviewed (who were in a sexual relationship) was 1-2 times a week. I could live with that I think.

As far as the boys--yes, the statistic does seem high but it only applies to boys who FINISH the program and the program takes 2-3 years. Of course, it is much lower for boys who aren't in the program or who leave or are forced out before they complete. it's a court-mandated program--these are multiple offense offenders. As you alluded to, the recidivism for adult offenders is just the opposite--over 98%. Sad.

I've often wondered if a big part of my weight gain was "protection" or maybe a hope for decreased attractiveness in some sick way to solve my problem of guilt over sexual intimacy. I don't know. I was hit upon so often as a young married and I never trusted myself to be able to resist every time. Although I always resisted, there was something in me that wondered if I would slip up and ruin my marriage and family, given the "right" (or should I say "wrong") circumstances.

I like hugs--most of my kids are very huggy and touchy, though not all. I'm comfortable hugging "my boys" (the offenders)--of course, only side hugs allowed, no frontal hugs. Like you, I know that some of these boys have never had appropriate touching in their lives. Breaks my heart. They have a long way to go but we have seen some great successes and know they can make it if they are willing to do the immense amount of work that changing thoughts and behavior takes. Hmmm, changing thoughts and behaviors--that sounds vaguely familiar.