Intimacy

[TerriDoodle 6]

To each his own, is what I say! Wouldn't it be a boring world if we all behaved the same!

[green 6]

In a perfect world that idea is great........... I mean.. heck

before I got divorced I had no idea that sex could last longer than 3 minutes! (I cried the first time it did because I thought I had done something wrong)

Oh, but this made me laugh! Your story reminds me of the experience which one of my closest girlfriends had. She had been living with a guy whose idea of intimacy was to roll on top of her, thrash around for a few minutes, and then roll off. After he brutally dumped her by driving her to her parents' house and leaving her there she finally started dating again. Well, for the first time in her life she got some foreplay. As the guy was kissing her belly she freaked out, grabbed him by his hair, and shrieked "what is this, this...HOLLYWOOD SEX!?!" :faint:

Yep, you have definitely got to test drive 'em.

[green 6]

By the way, my mum, who was born in 1918, did a little bit of test driving. Nothing wrong with making sure all the equipment - emotional and physical - works, eh. :eyebrows: I myself kissed, or, er, whatever, a number of frogs before I found the one who turned into my prince.

[faithmd 14]

Yep, you have definitely got to test drive 'em.

Thank you, green...and TracyinKS.

[Qvrfullmidwife 0]

"You have NO IDEA about life yet, you and your partner have so much growing and maturing to do. True the ideal way would be to do that together, to overcome adversity together, to grow together, but nowadays that is more rare than finding a person without a cell phone."

It is rare because no one expects it or even is aware that it is a possibility. Yes, I had a few partners prior as did my dh even though we were quite young. We both regret it. We have seen the happiest relationships in those who have not 'test drove' both in those who are generations older than us as well as in our own generation and now in the generation below. I believe that studies bear this out. One doesnt have to look hard to see studies indicating that serial relationships prior to marriage do not always make for lasting monogamy and that those who live together before marriage do not have higher success rates in marriage.

(married at 19, this month makes 22 years and still going strong)

[Qvrfullmidwife 0]

"As the guy was kissing her belly she freaked out, grabbed him by his hair, and shrieked "what is this, this...HOLLYWOOD SEX!?!" "

ROFLOL!

[jsrico 1]

I love this thread! I was so needed. I would like to give you a run down of my life. I was married for ten yrs...divorced after I found out my husband had a girlfriend. We had two kids at this point! Are sex life was great....everyday, morning an night, in the shower. I couldnt walk past the man without him grabbing something. We married very young he was 18 and I was 19. Sex was great.....sometimes I used to wish for him to calm down in that department because I was TIRED. LOL! I used to think that if we didnt have sex for a whole month I would be ok. Well after divorce...I did a lot of stuff that I didnt get to do before I was married! If you know what I mean!!! Well I met my DH and he was great.....I wasnt afraid to put myself out there. I was also about 50 pounds lighter than I am now. I was always the aggresive one in that department...which I must say I thought was odd, but I wanted a man to love me for me not for sex. Well we have been married for 2 1/2 yrs now. When were first married he worked nights, I worked days. So sex was hard to come by.....on the days he was off, I would go to bed at a normal time and he would stay up. I would shower, put on something sexy, and call him into the bed. He would say...I am not tired so I will just watch TV in the living room so I dont disturb you. Thats how I got blown off. So I thought it was are schuedules. NOT! He finally started workin regular hours. You know Monday-Friday 8-5. NOPE Still nothing....If I mentioned it then the next day we would have sex. If I dont mention it....months will go by. As of today its been 8 weeks. He is 32 and I am 34. I still feel young and still want to be with him but I feel dead as a women. He is loving, he tells me he loves me, he kissed me good night, he kisses me good morning, he kisses me good bye. He tells me I am sexy, I am beautiful. But there is NO desire for me. I hate that. I have told him that he has to go to the doctor, or do something. I love him but I need more that just a good roommate. We had a huge fight over it this past week. He is also a wonderful father to my kids, and we are in the process of him adopting them, since there real dad has not seen them for over 4 yrs. I just want this part of are marriage to work. He refuses to talk about it, or admit we have a problem. He gets really mad when I bring it up. On the outside we look like such a happy normal couple! People are always say we are sooooo lucky, but I just want to scream...yea happy sex-less couple!!

[Qvrfullmidwife 0]

"I have told him that he has to go to the doctor, or do something."

Absolutely.

I had had many midwifery clients express similar concerns and often there is a medical cause. It can be medications, depression, diabetes or issues. Rule out physical first then go to counseling. BUt there is usually help.

[areellady 1]

faith, I just want to tell you I whole heartedly agree. If a person marries the FIRST person that they think they fall in love with, that most likely would be disasterous. You have to get to know some different people. Someone you might think is the nicest person, might not really be so nice, after dating some others. My son, 19, is living with his gf. NOT that I am happy about it, BUT, I don't really want to see him sleeping around with a lot of girls either. I don't know, its hard and no one wins in my sons situation. If I would of married the father of my son when I was 17, I would now be WHO KNOWS WHERE!! I am glad that I didn't marry him. I waited and got married to another man, much older than me, and thought I would have a great life with him. NOT!!!! Divorced after 4 months.....Met current husband at 22. We have been married July 15th, for 14 years!!! Sure we had out ups and downs, but if I hadn't of had the other experiences with other men, I would not know how damn lucky I am to have the love of my life that I have now. I for one, am for trying out the merchandise before hand. And I don't necessarily mean by means of sex.

Nume, You know I know how you feel and what I have been through. Faith has had similar circumstances also in the past. You need to make the best decision for you and what you need. Your hubby can't give you what you need and desire. He is not capable. I truly hope you can get some love and affection soon. We all, as humans, need love and touch.

[faithmd 14]

It is rare because no one expects it or even is aware that it is a possibility.

See, I disagree. I expected that marriage is hard work, I expected that we would both have to put something into it to get something out of it. But I think I was a little different. I was raised in a household with both parents. My parents dragged my butt to church every Sunday morning, Sunday evening and Wednesdays, too. My mom was 41 and my dad was 38 when they got me. I'm now 37. They grew up during very tough times. My mother was a child during The Great Depression. My father was drafted during Korea and my mother took care of her father and younger brother after her mom died. My mother stopped working when they got me and my father worked in a grocery store. We didn't have much money, I remember my dad dumpster diving for cheese and bringing home unlabeled cans because they were cheap. Why do I mention this? Because I think how you were raised has a HUGE part in how you view relationships. I know my folks had it tough. They rarely ever let me see them fight. They instilled in me that to live together before marriage was not necessary. NOT that it was a sin, but that it just didn't give you a good idea of what a person really is like after the papers are signed. I didn't live with my husband before we married. I did live with one man for about 10 months and kicked him out, I don't think it was a good idea to live together, but in that case, I'm glad we never talked marriage. My mom stayed home to raise me, she was a nurse, could have made some good money and I'd have had all the trappings other kids around me had. But she felt it was important to be home with me. That doesn't happen today. As much as you want to disagree with me, you know that's the way it is for the general public. My mom later told me that there were many times that she wanted to pack a bag and leave, but she stayed because that's what you do. I guess it helped me realize divorce isn't the quick answer, BUT I do think sometimes it's the right choice. Should she have taken me and left? I have to honestly say probably. But she didn't and now they get along very well. She's sickly and my dad is now the man (43 years later) that she wanted. He is by her side constantly. But I cannot imagine holding out for 43 years. Why did she? Because that's the way she was raised.

Yes, I had a few partners prior as did my dh even though we were quite young. We both regret it. We have seen the happiest relationships in those who have not 'test drove' both in those who are generations older than us as well as in our own generation and now in the generation below. I believe that studies bear this out. One doesnt have to look hard to see studies indicating that serial relationships prior to marriage do not always make for lasting monogamy and that those who live together before marriage do not have higher success rates in marriage.

(married at 19, this month makes 22 years and still going strong)

Seriously: Congrats on being married for 22 years. It's a great thing that you don't see everyday anymore. Also congrats on the large family, we don't see enough of them in the right context (mom and dad, committed to raising children together) these days. However, I did look up Quiver Full and I now understand where you are coming from...We can agree to disagree and that's alright. TerriDoodle said it best, it's wonderful that we are all different.

I never suggested people cohabitate prior to marriage. I agree the numbers out there on cohabitation show that it is not a good predictor or success in marriage AT ALL. I never said it was.

Cohabitation Data:

There is a higher risk, 40 to 85%, of divorce between couples cohabiting before marriage than couples waiting until after marriage to share a home together. (Bumpass & Sweet 1995; Hall & Zhao 1995; Bracher, Stantow, Morgan & Russell 1993; DeMaris & Rao 1992 and Glen 1990)

Again, I am referring to dating different people on a longer term basis (not one or three dates) before settling on one person. And I again say not to consider marriage too young. My personal limit is 25. But that's just my limit. The studies DO support me, but they speak to 23 as being the low end. Here's a few studies to back me up:

AGE

According to the 2000 Census, 9.7 percent of those over the age of 15 in the United States listed themselves as divorced.

Atlanta Journal Constitution (subscription) - GA,USA

Divorce law needs no tweaking

Published on: 03/07/05

"Early marriage is a key predictor of later divorce. Nearly half of people

who marry under age 18 and 40 percent under age 20 end up divorced. It's only 24 percent for people who marry after age 25."

Item from the Smart Marriages Archive 11/12/02, titled "More teens are getting married - 11/12/02":

"Figures released last year from the National Center for Health Statistics found nearly half of marriages in which the bride is 18 or younger end in separation or divorce within 10 years. For brides 25 and older, half as many marriages break up."

--From an Associated Press story printed as "More teens jumping the broom" in USA Today; "Sharp Increase in Marriages of Teenagers Found in 90's" in the NY Times; appeared in at least 30 papers the weekend of Nov. 9-10, 2002.

And sadly, here's something that flies in the face of my belief that being more religious helps keep marraiges together (though some studies do suggest couples who attend church together on a regular basis, read Scripture together and pray together have a VERY low divorce rate, those behaviors are NOT the norm amongst younger folks in society today):

Born-Again Christians No More Immune to Divorce Than Others

A 2001 Barna Research Poll indicated that 33 percent of born-again Christians end their marriages in divorce, roughly the same as the general population, and that 90 percent of those divorces happen AFTER the conversion to Christianity. (Most people become born-again during their high school years.) By John Rossomando: CNS Staff Writer January 23, 2002.

[Lucy 0]

I think everyone is different. My husband and I lived together for a year before we were married and it was the best thing we could have done. We got all those arguments about space and schedules and who is in charge of which responsibilities out of the way before we married. I think if we hadn't moved in together until after our marriage, the first few months of marriage would have been consumed by all those arguments and perhaps I would have thought I had made a huge mistake. After we married, we barely argue anymore.

I'm not saying that this is good for everyone. Some people would never want to live with their partner until marriage, and I completely respect that.

[faithmd 14]

I'm glad that it helped you, Lucy.

Heck, DH and I didn't even live together until AFTER we had been married over 2 1/2 YEARS.

I sort of miss that time...

[green 6]

We're still living together before marriage and we have been together for over 22 years. We don't want to jinx the relationship, eh. LOL

[nume130 0]

Faith: I see what you mean now. Sorry I missunderstood you. I agree that couples need to date for awhile before even bringing up the M word. I also feel that they need pre-marriage councelling. I wish that had been available to us before we married. We met at church but believe it or not, nothing was made available to us. We should have had some strong spiritual guidance. I doubt we would have gotten married then. If we had been instructed to wait and discuss things better... but that is the past. No sence getting into that now. Can't change it, that is for sure. But if someone told me would I do it again and then I think of my kids and how could I say no, they wouldn't have been born and they are beyond precious.

I didn't grow up in a religeous home or even a good one. My mom was 17 when she had me and married my step-dad when I was 2, she was an alcoholic and died at 32. I guess two disfunctional people do not make one whole one.

[Qvrfullmidwife 0]

"I guess it helped me realize divorce isn't the quick answer, BUT I do think sometimes it's the right choice."

I agree wholeheartedly. Surprised? LOL!

" Again, I am referring to dating different people on a longer term basis (not one or three dates) before settling on one person."

AH. You see that is not the connotation that I got from the term "test drive". What I picked up from the phrase (I guess in context of the thread in general) was the idea of the test drives being purely sexual, not relational. My mistake.

I still believe that there are a lot of people who do not even know that it is possible for people to marry and stay married for life, that one can make that commitment and stick it through 'for better or for worse' simply because they have not seen it, either in their own families or in their social circles.

Regarding the fact that as many 'evangelical Christians' divorce as the general society...I understand that it is not just divorce but premarital sex, pregnancy and abortion as well.