Intimacy

[nume130 0]

I agree there is alot involved in a marriage. The intimacy issue may be a symptom of some serious stuff happening in a marriage. No one would seperate just for that one reason- at least I would hope not. If we scratch at the service- what would we find underneath? Yup, it's complicated all right.

P.S. I wouldn't go anywhere nude, let me tell you! That is the thing that nightmares are made of, (for me and any one who would have the misfortune to see me)

[lizrbit 0]

:::takes off funny glasses and nose and sets them on the table, puts on serious hat::::

I have to admit something. its not just the naked thats helped.

the winter before last was my last straw on a lot of fronts. I actually slept many nights at work (i own my own shop) and my deadlines were all i felt i had. my sons had grown apart into their own lives as they are supposed to, and my husband...well...lets just say that he didnt notice i was gone so much. I cried myself to sleep most nights, here on the couch where i work.

we had a lot of stuff go down the year prior that we just coudnt quite get through together. his job was/is stressful, mine is what it is but it allows me alot of freedome i never took. so...i decided id take it.

LAST WINTER. From January 8 to late March, i took a job across the country so that i could afford to go and just stay, and i did. I told them my plans, i updated them regularly with new news, I bought my ticket, and packed my bag. No threats, no ultimatums, nada. I just left, and stayed gone till March.

IN THE TIME I WAS GONE, I hardly watched any tv at all. I walked along the beach a LOT. I rediscovered bicycling, and social friends. I went out to eat, or cooked in. I thrived in the seventy degree days while husband struggled through the hard winter here. I was joyful. The 'break', did me wonders. (and i happened to have coordinated the whole initial banding thing then too) I came back a different person.

I dont know how old your kids are, but if you could get away by yourself, to find yourself for just a little while..it might help and take some pressure off. We expect SO MUCH of ourselves. I wish so often that i could just allow myself to fail. just let it all go.

Have you ever heard of an author named SARK? she has a website Planet SARK and i got turned onto her when i was in my twenties (im thirty nine now) and i used to really dig her. Shes my 'what if'.

i STILL think the naked helped.

[lizrbit 0]

my icon was taken during that time. thats me in galveston, about thirty lbs heavier than i am right now.

[Marimaru 7]

Diane, you have a very important message. I don't think that divorce should be a first, second, or third resort, but a last resort if things just can't be worked out. I don't think people should go into a marriage with the attitude that "well, if it doesn't work, there's always divorce". I just also think that once someone is thinking along those lines, it's better to move with it than drag on it.

My husband and I had many conversations before we got married about that specific topic, and both agreed we were getting married because we firmly planned to be together forever, not just because we were together now and there's ways to get out of it later.

My sister is of the other mind set. Her and her husband have been together a little over a year, and are going into counceling, but she said to me the other day "I'm willing to let it work if it's going to, but I don't think it is, and I can't stay married like this". Yikes.

[lizrbit 0]

marimaru, i dont think anyone on this thread thinks that way about our marraiges. i dont know anyone who (besides maybe your sister? :scalesno: ) , on the day they were married, had even the slightest thought that it wasnt going to be "forever". people do change. the person you are right now, might not be the same person who walked down the isle. you KNOW him alot better for one thing. he knows you too.

i dont know anyone that honestly looks forward to divorce, or anyone whose gone through one who sees it as an easy way out..its just that sometimes people get to the 'end of their respective rope' and that door starts to look damn good. weather its the door to a clandestine relationship's house, the door to an entire new life by yourself, or the door to a much needed break. those doors start to look tempting. i envy those people who are so well grounded theyve never noticed them. I think when we walk down the isle, thats what we think we will be, one of those fortunates.

I hopped back onto here because im listening to a new audiobook while im working (its not new to the rest of the world) but theres a chapter in there about intimacy in marraige and im listening to this and saying "wow, i wonder if anyone else on our thread has heard this" ...and...

heres where i scare everyone off ...

the name of the book is called "the art of happiness" and its by his holiness the Dalai Lama. its the third chapter in. (you can get it on itunes, and its ten dollars) you dont have to convert. I think its pertainant to what we area talking about and offers some really great insight into our respective situations.

[Josette 2]

I've been married 2 1/2 years and I'm 32. Our intimacy is good and we have sex often. We sat down and watched am episode of Oprah last week where a woman in the audience was telling Oprah about how 3 years ago her and her husband were falling away from each other. They have 2 small kids and busy lifes and just weren't connecting anymore, so she decided to try something. She initiated sex every night for a week...and never told him her plan. They did it every night and within a week things had changed. It's been three years and they still have sex almost every night and their marriage is great. They are very close.

Me and hubby were down to about once every 2 weeks maybe. We talked about it and decided to work harder and making sure we're making love more often. We seem to be reconnecting the more intimate we are.

I know this won't work for some of you but I just thought I'd share.

In prior relationships I used to have a lot of issues within myself with sex. I'm the kind of woman that can only orgasm manually and I suffered with deep embarrassment over that for years. I was so embarrassed that I'd stress out during sex and couldn't orgasm even if he tried to get me there. I couldn't let myself go and relax and let it happen. For the first 8 years of my sexual experiences I faked orgasm every time I had sex and would get myself to orgasm alone later.

When me and my hubby met and started our sexual relationship he was the kind of man that insisted on satisfying his woman and I was feeling insecure about myself and insecure about how difficult it was for me to orgasm. I started faking my orgasms and would masterbate when I was alone to get myself off. I felt incredible guilt over doing that behind his back but I was scared he'd get tired of me if I couldn't orgasm easily and he'd get sick of trying. I eventually came clean to him and he was very upset that I was faking with him. I explained everything to him and was very open and honest and I promised him I'd never fake again if he could accept that sometimes I just can't get to the point of orgasm. It was something we both had to work on. For a while it was weird because when I did orgasm he'd always ask me "did you REALLY orgasm?" but I realized I did it to myself. Nobody to blame but me. 2 years later we have a great sex life and we're reinventing it all the time. I orgasm a lot quicker now that I'm open to him about things and that allows me to relax. The key to it all is communication and withholding NOTHING. We both agreed that I'm not a mind reader and neither is he. TALK!

On a side note... toys are a lot of fun! I went to a pure romance party and bought the 'sealed with a kiss' that he has a lot of fun using on me and I bought him the 'jelly tool belt' that we both benefit from greatly!

Good luck to everyone and I hope what I shared helps someone in at least a small way.

[nume130 0]

:::takes off funny glasses and nose and sets them on the table, puts on serious hat::::

I dont know how old your kids are, but if you could get away by yourself, to find yourself for just a little while..it might help and take some pressure off.

I am practically alone now. My kids are 17, 19 and 21 and still at home. I have a little house closer to work about 2 hours away from where we live. (treacherous driving in the winter) I am there thru the week when I am not on the road. I also travel a great deal with work. I am alone at night, but I find it more stressfull. I can't deal with my kids etc. when I am away so much. This has been in place for a little over a year. This is the first time I have had a job that I enjoy. I have always held jobs that I hate so this part is a great treat for me. It is not like my kids are babies, but my 17 year old needs me. We have tried to sell the homestead, but so far no luck. My 19 yr old lives in my little house but she is not pleasant to live with at the moment- little miss miserable. When I come home for the weekend- often my H is away but even if we are alone together in the house he either just goes up to bed early and is "asleep" when I get up there or he out waits me and comes up when I am asleep (This habit has been in place for many years though, nothing new.) We have a king size bed, so sleeping naked won't make any difference. Great idea though!

[lizrbit 0]

nume! you work and stay there, but have you ever gone..for fun? buy a book youve always wanted to read on the way, and just hang out and read? its not the same if the 17 yr old is there, BECAUSE she needs you.

(i have a 22,18,14 array, all boys)

that doesnt qualify as "a break" if your still being put into a role while you are there, you know what im sayin? i mean..to really get away. Plan fun things for yourself to do while you are there. Things you dont do now at home, for whatever reason. Things that dont require anyone else.

i still think, that if you just tried sleeping naked, you would at least feel more luxurious and rebellious when you woke up, than you usually do. Since hes asleep or downstairs, he wont bother you. :scalesno: light candles, read, study yourself in the mirror, make promises to yourself to be kinder, to try to do something that week that only YOU want, that involves NO ONE ELSE.

if you do try it, i think its important to not have any expectations. If he ignores you well so be it, its his loss. I bet money that he will at least look at you with his head tilted to the side and go, "wha?" in the worst case (then just keep reading your book or doing the mirror thing and dont explain. it will stick in his head all day what the matter with you is, much more so than if you screamed at him), and in the best case....well...you know...

seriously, that audio book (or the book book) 'the art of happiness' from the dalai lama has some excellent insights into this. i just started it tonight. Love this perspective.

[areellady 1]

I was not trying to insinuate that at the first sign of trouble leave your partner!!! I have been married 14 years and I think I know a little about ups and downs of marriage. Also about giving AND taking. What I was referring to was nume130 and she knows I was talking with her. I have pmed her and she knows what is behind my response to her. I am sorry if anyone else thought I was talking to them and telling them to leave their spouse. Nume has a very different situation than the rest of you have with your marriages. Marriage is a life long commitment UNLESS it happens that someone is cheating and no intentions of quitting or doing things that can not be tolerated for a life time and are unwilling to change. Life is too short to be without intimacy with the one person the God gave to you to be with in that way. Making love opens all sorts of other doors into your lives that to say that part can be left out and be ok is insane. That is the one way to share the very most being of ourselves with the one person that we love the most. I think that you are all strong ladies and I feel for your loss of intimacy. No hard feelings I hope what I have said. Deanna

[cathgr8 1]

Life is too short to be without intimacy with the one person the God gave to you to be with in that way. Making love opens all sorts of other doors into your lives that to say that part can be left out and be ok is insane. That is the one way to share the very most being of ourselves with the one person that we love the most. Deanna

This is the way I feel exactly. And maybe avoiding intimacy is a way of keeping some doors shut, and I think that issue needs to be looked at before a spouse decides to just accept it. That was very true in my marriage. My husband was only 38 when he died, so in a very real sense, life was too short, and we didn't address this issue in the time we had so we could try to enjoy a full and fulfilling marriage in all ways before his life was cut short. I regret that very much, expecially now that so many years later I finally have an opportunity to understand what we were missing. It's not too late.

[green 6]

Nume has a different issue with her mate. In her earliest post she mentioned that he had been gay but had chosen to lead a straight life because he, like nume, is a devout Christian. I am one of those individuals who has been paying some attention to the results of research on male homosexuality and these results overwhelmingly indicate that homosexuals are born that way. Just as I, a heterosexual, would be entirely incapable of sexually committing to a Lesbian relationship, even though I have a number of fabulous dyke friends and some of them have made me the occasional offer, so a gay male will have great difficulty being sexually responsive to a woman, even one whom he loves very, very much. This is not his fault; the individual who fights his sexual orientation is fighting a war against his own nature.

I will also mention that learning that homosexuality is nature and not learned behaviour didn't surprise me. I come from a very tolerant family and I have always had gay friends, as had my mum before me. Of course I would often ask them when they first had an idea that they were different from other boys and they would always answer that they have always known that they were different...and then say, "oh, between the ages of 3 and 5, I guess." This alone indicates that homosexuality really is not a choice, I think.

As to nume learning to make friends with her own body and getting in touch with her own sensuality, I think that it is important that she should - we all should for this is what gives us confidence, pleasure and inner peace - and I love lizrbit's advice. Nume, you should sleep naked and make a point of surrounding yourself with a few small things which give you physical pleasure. I am quite a fan of music, scented candles, nice bath oils and soaps, and high-thread count sheets. You are another Canuck and so you probably know that you can buy most of this stuff at a reasonable price by shopping at Winner's (TJ.Maxx/Marshall's for you Americans). Opting to take a bath instead of a shower can be another great way to slow the world down and connect with yourself. This can be especially fine with a glass of wine, some candles, and maybe a little music.

Now, my next suggestion may be kind of controversial. You may be happier if you move out of the marital bedroom and set up your private little space elsewhere. Your bedroom has been the source of disappointment, humliation and pain and it is also a shared space. It sounds to me like you need your private space. This would be a place which would be fresh, new, and uncontaminated and you would own it. This would be the place where you would have your music, your bed with its fine sheets, your decor, and where you can sleep naked, and know that you have your privacy, your thoughts, and your peace. You would not have the stress of worrying about how your mate is going to respond to the new you.

[areellady 1]

I wanted to take a minute an apologize for the way my last post sounds. I was not trying sound bitchy or rude or "almightier". I am truly sorry if anyone was offended or put out by the way my post sounded. Deanna

[nume130 0]

Don't worry, nobody is offended. And nobody thinks that anyone would just leave for a marriage for just one spot of trouble. No worries. We are all fine here. Right gals!!

Thanks for all the great advice and I truly do all these things. I am alone in hotel rooms about 3 out of 4 weeks a month, so I do all the little things I would like as I am by myself now.

My little house (that I bought for myself) close to work, is decorated like a little cottage and is adorable. It is a little sancturary. But I am tired of being alone. Don't want a pet, so thats out. My middle child is living in my little house now, since January. She's not the greatest company right now. She has always been moody and she is pushing up past the boundries, but motherhood never goes away. sigh. I have just got to stop whining!!! I really want to make some friends. Friends for me. It is amazing to me how I have let all that slip away. I want friends that are not attached to work. I am to consumed with my job right now and need recreation away from it. How does one go about making friends at my age?

[nume130 0]

I just reread my previous post, boy do I sound pathetic!

[green 6]

It is difficult making real as opposed to virtual friends after one hits a certain stage in life. My gang of off-line friends is shrinking, that's for sure.