who supports right to choose

[BJean 16]

Lap_Dancer: You're right, in the first part of my post I was making an assumption that an abortion would be done very early on in a pregnancy. However in the second part of my post, I explained that whether or not the fetus is "viable" outside the womb is irrelevant to my belief that the government should not be making medical decisions for women in this country.

If we all did have the same beliefs and belonged to the same church, then it might make sense for the government to intervene, but the fact is that we do not all share the same beliefs and the only way this country can keep even a modicum of freedom for its' citizens is if we separate church and state. Otherwise, we could all wind up being the country (like Iraq) that is in a state of internal turmoil and war.

[BJean 16]

late: Unfortunately not all people share your beliefs in the scriptures of the Bible. And many, many of those who do not share your beliefs are well-educated and intelligent human beings. Many have studied the Bible and were in fact, raised within a Christian community. In this country, we have the right to believe whatever we choose to believe.

It is admirable that you want to show ignorant souls the pathway to Christ, but you must understand that not everyone who has different beliefs from you is ignorant of the Bible. If we are to have a peaceful nation, we must learn to respect each other, whether or not share the same reverence for the Bible.

[BJean 16]

P.S. No one has anyway of knowing for sure that God created a baby in a mother's womb to be delivered happy and healthy. Perhaps God created a baby in a miserable, troubled, raped woman's body so that she will have an abortion and then turn to God, thanking him for the release from bearing a child that she could never love. She could learn many lessons from that experience and could, in fact, become closer to God.

I am really not trying to be flip about this. I am deadly serious. If God can create a beautiful, healthy, wonderful little baby in a loving, joyful, accepting mother's womb, why can't it be God who causes his death just before he is born, as in the case of many stillborn births? Of course you believe that He is responsible, and that it is not for us to know why. We just have to put faith in God that he has a bigger plan for that mother and that baby. If that is true, then how can WE be the ones who decide for ALL mothers what they must or must not do when it comes to procreation in their bodies? If it is between a woman and God, WE have no right to intervene one way or the other. WE ARE NOT GOD. We are just people.

[late 0]

BJean- I am very thankful that we live in a free country and that we can choose to have our own beliefs and part of that freedom is being able to share our own beliefs. I would hope that anyone who calls themself a Christian would be respectful to anyone that they may disagree with and that they could have a calm and peaceful "debate." Even as a Christian i am very ignorant in several areas of the Bible, but what i do know i choose to share. And what i don't know I'll study till I find it.

[late 0]

[quote=Perhaps God created a baby in a miserable, troubled, raped woman's body so that she will have an abortion and then turn to God, thanking him for the release from bearing a child that she could never love. She could learn many lessons from that experience and could, in fact, become closer to God.

Yes that is possible, He makes all things work together for good. But it would not be in God's perfect will for that child to be killed. He may have allowed that rape to happen so that that mother could give that baby up for adoption and that she would turn to Him for comfort. He is the creator of life and the taker of life. In the case of abortion man is taking life. The doctors and those mothers are trying to take on God's role. As in the case of a stillborn baby, God is taking that child's life for a reason. God's will would never be for a man to decide who should live or die.

[Devana 0]

That's inconsequential to the discussion, although I do agree with you. But the presence of a soul is not what determines the value of a human being.

I don't understand. How can you tell if a human doesn't have a soul?

[gadgetlady 4]

I don't understand. How can you tell if a human doesn't have a soul?

You can't. The presence of a soul is a matter of faith. The discussion about abortion is not based on faith, but on science: the presence of a living human being with DNA and a physical body separate from the mother. I happen to believe that the unborn babies have souls, but that is my personal belief and cannot be proven. The physical reality of the presence of the human being that is the unborn child CAN be proven, and it is on that which I base my contention that abortion is the deliberate taking of a human life.

[BJean 16]

Late: But I respectfully disagree with you about God's will never leaving it up to man to decide who should live or die. I believe there are passages in the Bible that disprove that, if you believe in the literal truth of the Bible. But those passages are open for interpretation and therein lies the problem.

You believe one thing, I believe another, and millions of people have similar or extremely different beliefs from yours and mine. That is why it is not for us to make the choice for all other human beings, even if we are convinced that our beliefs are the one way, the truth and the light.

We as human beings must make our own choices based on our own knowledge and beliefs. When you or anyone else steps into my private life and imposes your will on me - whether it's about abortion or whether I choose to treat a cancer I have, or which type of medical therapy I choose for my sick child - it is wrong. Those decisions are mine, not someone else's, even if they result in a possible, or certain, death.

[BJean 16]

The discussion of abortion can be about faith or science, depending upon your beliefs. Science determining when life begins is not the sole criterion for discussing abortion. There are people who choose to ignore science and there are people who depend wholly on science, but in the end, when you break it all down, it is all about your belief system.

[green 6]

Howzabout a law that would forbid all practising Christians to involve themselves in abortions? Those of us who are not Christians will continue to have the right to choose. We do, afterall, have a right to our beliefs and our beliefs on this subject are quite different to yours.

[Devana 0]

You can't. The presence of a soul is a matter of faith.

Whose faith? Are you saying that you have faith that one person does or does not have a soul? What makes you decide?

[L8BloomR 1]

When I was 20 and a brand-new wife, my DH was being drafted for Viet Nam. Even though I was using birth control, I got pregnant. Everyone was upset, including my DH. We had no money and both of our families were going though difficult times and could not help. Abortion had just become legal and I was pressured by everyone around me to get rid of the child because of the hardship it would present for us, especially with my husband gone. A dear priest advised me to think about how much comfort the child would bring me if my husband was killed in the war and what a gift it would be in my life. After much agonizing, I decided to go through with the pregnancy. Best decision I ever made! If I had aborted, the world would have lost the finest, most decent man I have every known (if I do say so myself.... and I never take credit for him, since he was like that from birth). I learned so much from this pregnancy: how to make do with less, how to focus on the humans in my life instead of material things, how to rely on God and His will for me. I also don't think my DH and I would have stayed married all these years if not for this son binding us together during the tough times. Yes, I understand that not everyone has a situation like mine. There are so many tragic stories. But as a Christian, I believe that God will help us though the tragedies if we take the cross He gives us and do the right thing. Thinking of a baby as a "blob of tissue" makes it easy to do what WE think is best, but I can't help thinking of all those potential wonderful people being flushed away.

I am not judging those who chose abortion... I remember that desparate, "what do I do now?" feeling and I know that I was alot luckier than many people in that situation---with more options, but I also think that taking the gift God was trying to bring me helped me grow up, make choices that made me a better person and put me on a better path for my life. For people who don't believe in God, I can't expect them to see things in this way, but I do wish that more emphasis would be put on what is being given up and on the help that is out there to get you through. So many people view a nice home or car or clothes as more important... I have even heard someone say their abortion was better for the baby because they "didn't have enough money to give it nice things", as if a baby wants anything beyond it's Mom. That kind of thinking, while hopefully rare, is so sad to me.

I don't have an answer but just thought I'd share my story in case anyone else is in the predicament I was in. I volunteered for many years with a church-centered help group that provides clothes, shelter and food for young women who are pregnant and needy. These groups weren't there when I was young, but there are many out there now. I wish they were talked up more as a viable option.

[late 0]

One day science will be advance enough to prove that life does begin at conception and then all those arguments about faith vs. science will be void.

[green 6]

When I was 20 and a brand-new wife, my DH was being drafted for Viet Nam. Even though I was using birth control, I got pregnant. Everyone was upset, including my DH. We had no money and both of our families were going though difficult times and could not help. Abortion had just become legal and I was pressured by everyone around me to get rid of the child because of the hardship it would present for us, especially with my husband gone. A dear priest advised me to think about how much comfort the child would bring me if my husband was killed in the war and what a gift it would be in my life. After much agonizing, I decided to go through with the pregnancy. Best decision I ever made! If I had aborted, the world would have lost the finest, most decent man I have every known (if I do say so myself.... and I never take credit for him, since he was like that from birth). I learned so much from this pregnancy: how to make do with less, how to focus on the humans in my life instead of material things, how to rely on God and His will for me. I also don't think my DH and I would have stayed married all these years if not for this son binding us together during the tough times. Yes, I understand that not everyone has a situation like mine. There are so many tragic stories. But as a Christian, I believe that God will help us though the tragedies if we take the cross He gives us and do the right thing. Thinking of a baby as a "blob of tissue" makes it easy to do what WE think is best, but I can't help thinking of all those potential wonderful people being flushed away.

I am not judging those who chose abortion... I remember that desparate, "what do I do now?" feeling and I know that I was alot luckier than many people in that situation---with more options, but I also think that taking the gift God was trying to bring me helped me grow up, make choices that made me a better person and put me on a better path for my life. For people who don't believe in God, I can't expect them to see things in this way, but I do wish that more emphasis would be put on what is being given up and on the help that is out there to get you through. So many people view a nice home or car or clothes as more important... I have even heard someone say their abortion was better for the baby because they "didn't have enough money to give it nice things", as if a baby wants anything beyond it's Mom. That kind of thinking, while hopefully rare, is so sad to me.

I don't have an answer but just thought I'd share my story in case anyone else is in the predicament I was in. I volunteered for many years with a church-centered help group that provides clothes, shelter and food for young women who are pregnant and needy. These groups weren't there when I was young, but there are many out there now. I wish they were talked up more as a viable option.

Thanks for sharing this story with us, L8.

[L8BloomR 1]

Thank you, Green, for your kindness....