who supports right to choose

[btrieger 21]

Yep, you have to wait until it grows up and murders somebody before you can kill it.

[rodriguezequal 3]

Aww...hello old friend lol. This thread has been quiet for a while lol. Missed you all

[pattygreen 5]

gadget seems to travel sometimes but she always comes back - with a vengance.

want2beme: Thanks for your post. I agree with you about the humility thing and the value of loving each other.

And I also agree that this is a very thought provolking thread. However, there has never been a time that the anti-choice folks have made a convincing argument that we should force women to leave the decision about abortion up to the government rather than to the women involved.

You want the government to make your HC decisions, but not make decisions on whether babys can be killed or not? WOW! That's screwed up.

[Cleo's Mom 257]

The government doesn't make my health decisions now nor would they in the new healthcare bill. My insurance company, however, decides whether to approve procedures recommended by my doctor.

I was free to get a flu shot or not. I am free to get a yearly Pap test, or not. I am free to pursue weight loss surgery, or not. Where is the government telling me what medical procedure to get or not? My INSURANCE company has all the decision making ($$) power now.

What healthcare decisions does the government make for you? Or will make under the new bill other than to require that you have insurance (which is different than making medical decisions)?

But you want the government, who you don't believe gets anything right, and who you believe has become too big and intrusive, to govern a woman's uterus.

[BJean 16]

You've hit the proverbial nail on the head, CM's!!!

The point is not or should not be whether a fetus is a blob of cells or a human being or a tumor. The argument is whether the government has a right to effectively interject itself into a woman's body, with the woman having no say in it.

It is like something out of a sci-fi movie where some nameless, faceless entity is telling its' citizens whether they can or cannot reproduce, and if they can reproduce which sex it must be.

We have learned a grim lesson from the time when our government told women what they legally must do if they became pregnant. What we learned is, legal or not, women will make their own decisions about their reproductive organs and they will make the decision to abort if it is absolutely necessary, whether it is legal or not and even when the woman risks her own life in the process by using some backstreet butcher.

Making abortion illegal does not work and it is wrong.

[Carrie_C 9]

Yea let's make abortion illegal so a young girl will be forced to go to a back alley doctor and die. Yea, that makes sense.

[rodriguezequal 3]

My sister in law just had an abortion on the 29th. She was 6 weeks along. Personally I think she made the right decision...In other news...I'm havin a girl and then when she's born healthy I'm gettin my tubals ligated lol

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Yea let's make abortion illegal so a young girl will be forced to go to a back alley doctor and die. Yea, that makes sense.

And lets not forget that some who post here want to criminalize abortion and throw all the women and doctors into jail. What would become of the babies they are then forced to have in jail has never been addressed. If they are forced to have the baby, shouldn't they have the right to keep it? Or should they be forced to have the baby and then the GOVERNMENT that forced them to have it takes it away from them? And then does what with the baby?

That's a lot of power given to a government that those anti-abortionists say already has too much power and interferes too much in our lives and doesn't get anything right, anyway.

These questions cannot be answered because there are no answers. Even the bishop of Rhode Island who wants to keep Patrick Kennedy from communion because he votes pro-choice will not even say he wants women to go to jail. He wants to make abortion illegal but doesn't have any answers beyond that. That's because the anti-abortion movement doesn't think about those things.

[rodriguezequal 3]

Amen...well said as always!

[Cleo's Mom 257]

Here is the Chris Matthews interview with Bishop Tobin. The Catholic Church has long been in the forefront of the anti-abortion movement and was instrumental in the language in the current healtcare reform bill, but when it comes to having answers for the hard questions, well - just watch the video.

Chris Matthews nails this bishop who has a lot of rhetoric but NO ANSWERS. It's the best interview I've ever seen Chris Matthews do. Please watch:

YouTube - Chris Matthews Pwns Catholic Bishop on Rep. Patrick Kennedy Issue

[tdslf1 0]

I think Chris Matthews hit the nail on the head. No answer beyond the religious view. Religion and politics (the law) cannot mix. He showed the complete disconnect that the religious grumblers seem to have.

[rodriguezequal 3]

That is what I have been saying! You cannot mix church and state. Others religious views should have no impact on laws at all. Not everyone shares the same views so why should one be forced to follow anothers beliefs?

[pattygreen 5]

That is what I have been saying! You cannot mix church and state. Others religious views should have no impact on laws at all. Not everyone shares the same views so why should one be forced to follow anothers beliefs?

Thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not steal, both relligious views coming straight from God himself, yet both laws enstated in this country. You only want the laws that God gave us that you agree with. If everyone would follow ALL his laws, this could be a better place.

[pattygreen 5]

I think Chris Matthews hit the nail on the head. No answer beyond the religious view. Religion and politics (the law) cannot mix. He showed the complete disconnect that the religious grumblers seem to have.

People in this country decide what laws should be followed and those in authority make the judgement of penalties for them. Why should this priest give his personal opinion on what the penalty should be for a woman having an abortion or for a doctor who provides it? Let the courts decide that. I personally feel that the laws we have right now in place for people who murder should be the same for women who do it to their unborn babies, and doctors should be chraged with it as well. I believe that a life is a life whether it's within a womans body or outside of it.

I am not catholic, and don't agree with alot of their doctrines, but this one is undeniably right in every christian denomination. Abortion is the killing of a baby. If the Catholic church states that you must be in agreement with their view on the issue in order to be in good standing with their denomination and be able to recieve communion with them, then every congregant of that church needs to have that same belief about abortion. If you publicly proclaim that you are pro choice, as this man did, then they have every right to refuse to administer communion to you. If you don't agree with your churches denomination about things, maybe you should attend elsewhere.

[tdslf1 0]

PG,

Again, you don't get it. The point of the interview was, if you saw the video, was the priest had no answer beyond the "abotion is a sin". Same as you. NO one wants to label it murder in practice, and NO ONE EVER WILL. You have to have answers beyond that and what we have said and keep saying is no legislator is going to be ruled completely by their views. That train has passed. We came to that precipise with Roe vs. Wade, NEVER TO TURN BACK. Look at countries that let religious rhetoric rule ever aspect of their living. They have mayhem and murder that is wide spread with no relief in sight. You keep saying "if they only legislated by this religious view or that one". Never going to happen.

The priest jumped on TV and made himself look like an ass who was bullying from the pulpit for something he knows nothing about and no answers for. He kept saying "I am not a legislator". Being a priest is his job. Being a legislator is the jobs of the Senate and House. They reflect the whole of society not the Catholic part of society. You want them to legislate by Catholic rules and we are not just a Catholic nation thus no legislator can rule by his or her personal opinion just because he believes something else other than what needs to be decided. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. I have never seen so many people bump their head against a collective wall like the religious. The clock will never turn back.

I can't have this argument again. I lose a couple IQ points talking about this rule from the pulpit crap. Priest shows the best example of why not. For you to continue on in this vein is either idiocy, a joke you wish to keep going or you are slow. Either way, you are making me feel sorry again for you. Lord only knows what your decifering skills are because you can't seem to understand the difference between facts and the bible, interpretation and the real world and a whole host of things.

Yet again another bump of the head against the wall.........